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Offline1wsfl
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Registered: 02/25/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth
    #6608425 - 02/25/07 11:43 AM (17 years, 26 days ago)

First off, I would like to thank you all in advance for your time and assistance.

I'm a n00b and currently in the process of trying to grow my own shr00maroos (Pink Buffalo). I'm a tad nervous at this point because my jars have yet to see any mycelium growth at all in a period of 5 days (not even a spec from what I can tell). I have followed the PF-Tek for Simple Minds guide here at Shroomery (http://www.shroomery.org/8412/PF-Tek-for-Simple-Minds) and have incubated 8 jars so far (none of which show mycelium growth). There is only one thing I can think of that may have caused this possible problem, the type of vermiculite I used. I purchased a big bag of vermiculite at a local chain store and it is finely/small graded (it looks like this: http://www.djroger.com/vermiculite.JPG). This was the ONLY bag of vermiculite I could find after searching store after store. After making the mix of vermiculite and BR per the Tek, I placed them in the jars and began to notice a little bit of "mud-like" build up of the bottom of the jar, making me nervous about excess water content. The rest of the vermiculite is fine and moistened from above the very bottom, but I am still worried about that little build up at the very bottom of each jar. My guess is that this occurred due to the vermiculite grade I used.

Anways... with that being said... what should I do? I glanced at other various Tek guides and have read some conflicting information. The temperature range I have for the chamber which houses the jars is around 80-85 degrees. Some Tek guides state to leave them at room temp. in the 70's...? I have also read that if jars appear to seem too damp/wet, that removing the lid slightly for awhile will help relieve the excess moisture allowing the mycelium process to take place correctly, but I'm afraid of contamination and question if opening the jars is really a good idea at this point.

Help! (Please)

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Invisiblefigment
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N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: 1wsfl]
    #6608443 - 02/25/07 11:53 AM (17 years, 26 days ago)

i don't think that it's critical that you have a particular type of verm. you should get some growth no matter what. also, a little buildup at the bottom of a jar never hurt me. you may want to keep an eye on it though. also, bfr takes a while to start showing growth sometimes. i would give it a little longer. and as far as the temperature question. 80-82 is optimal until fruiting, then you drop it down to around 75.

all in all....give it some time. wait a few more days.


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InvisibleOptx
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N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: figment]
    #6608483 - 02/25/07 12:08 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

yeah, the coarseness of the verm wouldn't affect growth growth very much. how long did you let the jars cool after you inoculated? my guess is probably not long enough...and are you incubating? because it seems like you meant to say "inoculated 8 jars" instead of "incubated 8 jars"


--------------------
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Offline1wsfl
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: Optx]
    #6608516 - 02/25/07 12:20 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Optx said:
yeah, the coarseness of the verm wouldn't affect growth growth very much. how long did you let the jars cool after you inoculated? my guess is probably not long enough...and are you incubating? because it seems like you meant to say "inoculated 8 jars" instead of "incubated 8 jars"




I let the jars cool over night, I would say at least 7-8 hours. I let 2 of the 8 jars cool even longer, probably around 12-14 hours.

You are right, I didn't mean to imply incubated. Didn't catch that as I was typing.

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InvisibleOptx
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: 1wsfl]
    #6608607 - 02/25/07 12:56 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

so you are not incubating then? some people will say room temp is fine, but if you can incubate at 80degrees or so, there should be a noticeable difference


--------------------
please do not take everything i say here so personally. welcome to teh internets!

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: Optx]
    #6608700 - 02/25/07 01:26 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

The vermiculite looks fine, by the way.

What was your ratio's on BRF : vermiculite : distilled water that you used for each jar?

Tell us about your jars, what size are they, how many injection ports in each lid, how much solution into each inoculation port? Do you have the dry layer of verm on top, is the injection ports open and clear of obstructions to breathe?

That should help us narrow things in a little further.

My gut tells me the problem is in the ventilation, but there's still so many other things it could be, it's too hard to say.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
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------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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OfflineCabinet_Sanchez
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: mycocurious]
    #6608848 - 02/25/07 02:16 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

I'm 11 days after my inoculation with a PF grow (my first) and my mycelium is growing fine.

I was worried that mine wasn't growing at around 4 days too, but then I got a hilarious bright idea: roll up the tinfoil a bit. I don't know if you used tin foil or how much, but when we did ours the needle didn't reach below where the tin foil came down on the jars, so I didn't think it was growing at all until I looked under it.

Our jars are also incubating about between 80-85, and you should be fine at that temperature. If you flamed the needle and didn't let it cool then it could've been too hot when you inoculated right after... but I don't think that would ruin all the jars. Is your incubation chamber nice and dark?

It also might just be a bit too early to tell. Some jars just take a long time and 5 days isn't that long in the grand scheme.

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Invisiblefigment
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: Cabinet_Sanchez]
    #6608860 - 02/25/07 02:21 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

ventilation (FAE) is unecessary in the jar stage. what you want it 'gas exchange'...which is different. also, even if there is absolutely no gas exchange you will still see growth...but your jars will more than likely stall later on down the road.

just give a couple more days...you're probably fine. like i said before, brf takes a while....longer than wbs that's for sure.


--------------------

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: Cabinet_Sanchez]
    #6608905 - 02/25/07 02:36 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Cabinet_Sanchez said:
Our jars are also incubating about between 80-85, and you should be fine at that temperature.  If you flamed the needle and didn't let it cool then it could've been too hot when you inoculated right after... but I don't think that would ruin all the jars.  Is your incubation chamber nice and dark?




I don't incubate at that warm of a temp, I try to keep it just at or below 79-80 degrees and that's only because I found a "warm-spot" in my house by my water heater that provides that temp all day long without any form of contraption to provide it.  :grin: ok, so I got lucky, but still cooling them down a little might be a little helpful.  The warmer you go, the more inviting the climate becomes for contaminates without any increase in mycelium reproduction.

And when you flame, don't worry about letting them cool down, I thought when I did my first batch of jars that I had ruined them by squirting through a red hot needle until someone helped me realize...
Quote:

creamcorn said:when flaming a needle i allow it to get red hot and inject very soon after! the first drop or two cools the needle... doesn't take much, there's not much metal there to hold the heat. you might sacrifice a very small amount of solution but the majority that flows through is perfectly viable. think of the hour that you spend sterilizing jars. heat needs to be applied for a period of time to de-activate spores. obviously flame or red hot metal does it almost immediately, but that split second solution flows through, it isn't warmed to any appreciable level, and the needle is cool before you know it.




As for the darkness, RR recently disclosed how light has no effect on the incubation process for colonizing mycelium for cubes... :shrug:


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Offline1wsfl
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Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: mycocurious]
    #6609056 - 02/25/07 03:23 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Wow, so many responses in so little time, thanks guys!

To answer a few questions: The jars I'm using are half pint wide mouth jars. I created the mix per the PF Tek for Simple Minds guide (http://www.shroomery.org/8412/PF-Tek-for-Simple-Minds). I did not use store bought Brown Rice Flour (couldn't find any) but I bought whole grain brown rice (Mahatma brand) and grinded it down into flour-like form before applying to the mix. After placing the mixture into in jar I placed a dry layer of verm in each jar nearly to the top. I used exactly 1cc per jar, across 4 ports per jar, allowing the liquid to run down the sides of each jar into the mix as specified in the Tek. Once completed, I sealed each jar tightly and placed them in the in my bucket, which sits on top of another bucket with water and a submerged fish aquarium heater. I have a blanket covering the jars. I have monitored the temp. and it stays right around 80, give or take.

As far as gas exchange goes or removing the lids, I have not done this at all. Should I loosen the lids from time to time during this period or just leave them alone?

Thanks again guys!

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: 1wsfl]
    #6609089 - 02/25/07 03:34 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

1wsfl said:As far as gas exchange goes or removing the lids, I have not done this at all. Should I loosen the lids from time to time during this period or just leave them alone?



No, but you should have nothing blocking the injection ports where you inoculated them. A lot of times people leave this covered in the foil used during sterilization or leave the micropore tape on, which seems to also restrict air exchange.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Offline1wsfl
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Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 15
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: mycocurious]
    #6609110 - 02/25/07 03:43 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

mycocurious said:
Quote:

1wsfl said:As far as gas exchange goes or removing the lids, I have not done this at all. Should I loosen the lids from time to time during this period or just leave them alone?



No, but you should have nothing blocking the injection ports where you inoculated them. A lot of times people leave this covered in the foil used during sterilization or leave the micropore tape on, which seems to also restrict air exchange.




That is exactly what I did. I placed a piece of sterilized tin foil over each jar's injection ports and have left them that way since day one. So should I go ahead and remove the top piece of tin foil leaving the injection ports open/exposed? Hopefully, it's not too late to do that after 5 days...?

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OfflineCabinet_Sanchez
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: 1wsfl]
    #6609128 - 02/25/07 03:49 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

We have tin foil over ours and it doesn't cause any problems. You could try loosening the lids a little if you have them super tight, but leaving the foil on.

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: 1wsfl]
    #6609223 - 02/25/07 04:14 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

1wsfl said:
That is exactly what I did. I placed a piece of sterilized tin foil over each jar's injection ports and have left them that way since day one. So should I go ahead and remove the top piece of tin foil leaving the injection ports open/exposed? Hopefully, it's not too late to do that after 5 days...?




The layer of dry vermiculite you put on the top of the PF Jar is all you need for providing a contamination barrier, everything else only hinders air exchange. I would pull the foil off and let them breath a little.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Offline1wsfl
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Registered: 02/25/07
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Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: mycocurious]
    #6609316 - 02/25/07 04:36 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Excellent feedback everyone! I feel better already! Here is what I have done so far:

I have loosened the foil on 3 jars, just enough to where the foil remains on the jars covering them, but can easily pulled right off of at the same time.

On 3 other jars, I have completely removed the top layer of tin foil exposing the injection ports.

I have left 2 jars the same.

I'm going to experiment with this and try and see what happens with the jars. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Thanks!

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: 1wsfl]
    #6609492 - 02/25/07 05:23 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

sounds like a plan, let us know what happens if anything happens in the next 48 hours. or rather, let us know if nothing happens in the next 48 hours.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Offlinemikemushroom
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: mycocurious]
    #6609759 - 02/25/07 06:33 PM (17 years, 26 days ago)

Why not use breathable medical tape over the injection holes?


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Read his library of books to expand your mind.

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OfflineOwMyHead
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: 1wsfl]
    #8272019 - 04/11/08 11:27 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

1wsfl said:

Quote:

I did not use store bought Brown Rice Flour (couldn't find any) but I bought whole grain brown rice (Mahatma brand) and grinded it down into flour-like form before applying to the mix.




I am *brand new* and haven't even gotten to the point that you are at, 1wsfl, but you might want to ask specifically about the rice?

I don't know if Mahatma is organic or not, but I'm thinking not, and I think there's a reason we're supposed to use organic.


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Free the WM3!!!

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Invisiblekiowa27
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: OwMyHead]
    #8273150 - 04/12/08 08:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

patience patience patience.. I am assuming here, but chances are you used a spore syringe correct? multispore innoc take time sometimes, don't start to wonder until you've passed the 10 day mark. I've read accounts of visible growth (won't say germination, as that can take a matter of minutes with fresh spores it's naked eye visible growth we're after) taking 2-3 weeks from older prints.. more first grows are sabotaged by over loving than you'd believe lol, keep on keepin on man :mushroom2:


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Evil is wasted on the wicked. Only the virtuous can truly plumb its depths, because only they have the necessary strength of conviction.

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OfflineNibin
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: OwMyHead]
    #8273408 - 04/12/08 10:42 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

OwMyHead said:
1wsfl said:

Quote:

I did not use store bought Brown Rice Flour (couldn't find any) but I bought whole grain brown rice (Mahatma brand) and grinded it down into flour-like form before applying to the mix.




I am *brand new* and haven't even gotten to the point that you are at, 1wsfl, but you might want to ask specifically about the rice?

I don't know if Mahatma is organic or not, but I'm thinking not, and I think there's a reason we're supposed to use organic.




Bumps ups a year old thread on his first post.

WELCOME TO THE SHROOMERY
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Offlinejimmyjame1
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: OwMyHead]
    #12250998 - 03/22/10 07:34 PM (14 years, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

OwMyHead said:
1wsfl said:

Quote:

I did not use store bought Brown Rice Flour (couldn't find any) but I bought whole grain brown rice (Mahatma brand) and grinded it down into flour-like form before applying to the mix.




I am *brand new* and haven't even gotten to the point that you are at, 1wsfl, but you might want to ask specifically about the rice?

I don't know if Mahatma is organic or not, but I'm thinking not, and I think there's a reason we're supposed to use organic.




i think its because they put pesticides and fungicides on it which is exactly what you don't want when you are growing fungus


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Offlinejimmyjame1
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Re: N00B Inside -Need Help Re: Mycelium Growth [Re: Cabinet_Sanchez]
    #12291176 - 03/29/10 06:40 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cabinet_Sanchez said:
I'm 11 days after my inoculation with a PF grow (my first) and my mycelium is growing fine. 

I was worried that mine wasn't growing at around 4 days too, but then I got a hilarious bright idea:  roll up the tinfoil a bit.  I don't know if you used tin foil or how much, but when we did ours the needle didn't reach below where the tin foil came down on the jars, so I didn't think it was growing at all until I looked under it.

Our jars are also incubating about between 80-85, and you should be fine at that temperature.  If you flamed the needle and didn't let it cool then it could've been too hot when you inoculated right after... but I don't think that would ruin all the jars.  Is your incubation chamber nice and dark?

It also might just be a bit too early to tell.  Some jars just take a long time and 5 days isn't that long in the grand scheme.




yah my pf tek jars took 7 days to show the first sign of growth.

my wbs jars took much longer (more like 14 days - 17 days) to show its first sign of growth

so be paitent it will pay off


--------------------
:nyan:Link to My Journaland My Trade List :nyan:


LOVE PEACE AND BEAUTIFUL MUSIC.

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