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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: VampireSlayer]
    #6707849 - 03/24/07 10:43 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Please keep this thread about mycology, not making acid, or I'll have to lock it.
RR


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Offlinejccc
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6813641 - 04/20/07 05:58 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

BAck to this thread...

Well I came up with some questions...if ergot is a fungus than where is the mycellium growth?

Also if one were to transfer this to a agar plate what part of the ergot would you sample? (just like if i were to put spores on a plate form the mushrooms gills what do you do for ergot?)

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OfflineNalim
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: jccc]
    #6813709 - 04/20/07 06:25 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

The mycelium is in and on the seed.. The entire first year is actually just mycelial growth, so most of the pics you've seen of ergot is mycelium.. The fruiting stage occurs the second year from spore..

It's both a parasitic fungi and a saprophytic. The first stage is parasitic and then after the grass is dead it continues feeding from it and sets fruit.


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Offlinejccc
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: Nalim]
    #6817016 - 04/21/07 08:40 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

are the fruits little mushroom bodies??

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OfflineNalim
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: jccc]
    #6844765 - 04/28/07 10:23 AM (17 years, 25 days ago)

fruit=fruitbody=mushroom

:grin:


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OfflineHillbillyThoth
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: Nalim]
    #6851232 - 04/29/07 09:47 PM (17 years, 24 days ago)

This has been discussed so many times all over the internet; the DEA's own reports suggest that most or all of the LSD in the U.S. is made from Ergotamine Tartrate, bought in Russia (though one businessman was arrested buying it in Vietnam, and I bet you can get it from Mexico too).

I'm tired of reading about this; there are pretty good arguments on both sides (whether ergot can be practical for LSD production), so how come one of you doesn't go out to your local Rye Field (tm), pick some sclerotia, culture it, and post back here with your results? If you have some experience growings LCs of Psilocybe spp. this can't be all that more difficult. It's the same basic procedure, just a more specific culture formula.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: HillbillyThoth]
    #6851332 - 04/29/07 10:12 PM (17 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

I'm tired of reading about this;




And I'm tired of people like you hijacking the thread to talk about lsd when it's a mycology thread, not a drug manufacturing thread. Don't do it again.
RR


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OfflineNalim
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: jccc]
    #6857936 - 05/01/07 11:38 AM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

jccc said:
Also if one were to transfer this to a agar plate what part of the ergot would you sample? (just like if i were to put spores on a plate form the mushrooms gills what do you do for ergot?)




I think I missed this part before(although I think I have stated my opinion on it earlier). The best way to get a culture going, in my mind, would be to wait until the second stage of growth when one gets fruitbodies and clone that material in the same fashion one would with Psilocybe sp.


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Offlinecrystalsparkles
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: Nalim]
    #6930181 - 05/17/07 12:53 PM (17 years, 6 days ago)

It'll be cereal harvest time within the next 3 - 6 weeks, when Ergot will be most visible on stuff like rye, wheat, barley... how about those that are interested in a cultivation attempt spend a few hours in local fields looking for some samples. That we could then post out to any of the willing resident masters to see what they can work out.

If you're interested in having a wander, I strongly recommend reading the wiki article on Ergot and then have a quick read through the cereals and grasses it grows on so you know roughly what you're looking for and at. I've actually found it really enjoyable learning about cereals and being able to pick some apart in front of me while I read the Wiki articles.

There's quite a lot of good information around about Ergot since it's been involved in quite a lot of history; e.g. crop farming, LSD, civil wars in France (apparently :wink:), old and newer medicinal uses, Greek mystic stuff...

The Wiki on Ergot's life cycle is particularly worthwhile.

Edited by crystalsparkles (05/17/07 01:56 PM)

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Offlinecrystalsparkles
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: crystalsparkles]
    #6937710 - 05/19/07 05:08 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/paspali.htm

A link to an interesting idea that Ergot was farmed by priests by inoculation of crops with the Ergots honeydue.

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Offlinecrystalsparkles
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: crystalsparkles]
    #6938106 - 05/19/07 09:34 AM (17 years, 4 days ago)

I have also since discovered two recipies for growth nutrient and that there are quite a few patents around about cultivation.

A growth cycle is approximately 14 days. I have more details on what affects the output of the growth cycle, how to enhance it and what levels of output can be obtained but I'm not sure if that's really shroomery information.

PM me if you want some more specifics I guess.

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InvisibleRasHelio1
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: crystalsparkles]
    #6942179 - 05/20/07 09:42 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

bobs red mill og rye has alot of ergot sclerotia in it.oh and by the way i was being lazy when replying. this isnt a reply to the last post but rather a general post on the subject concerning the original q's from the top.there is indeed claviceps culture techs online.the same one on every sites page word for word where it can be found.you gotta dig deep though.something like page 200 deep in the search results.if i get bored i'll look for it and post links.

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InvisibleRasHelio1
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: RasHelio1]
    #6942527 - 05/20/07 11:29 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

B) Make a culture medium


Combine the following ingredients in about 500 ml distilled
water in a 2 L small-neck flask:


Sucrose 100 g

Chick pea meal 50 g
Calcium nitrate 1 g
Ca(NO3)2
Monopotassium phosphate 0.25 g
KH2PO4
Magnesium sulphate 0.25 g
MgSO4
Potassium chloride 0.125 g
KCl
Ferrous sulphate heptahydrate 8.34 mg
FeSO47H20
Zinc sulphate heptahydrate 3.44 mg
ZnSO47H20


Add water to make up one liter

Adjust to pH 4 with ammonia solution and citric acid

Sterilize by autoclaving


C) Make a culture


Inoculate the sterilized medium with Claviceps Purpurea under
sterile conditions, stopper with sterilized cotton and
incubate for two weeks, periodically testing and maintaining
pH 4. After two weeks a surface culture can be seen on the
medium. Large-scale production of the fungus can now begin.

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InvisibleRasHelio1
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: RasHelio1]
    #6942537 - 05/20/07 11:34 AM (17 years, 3 days ago)

D) Large-scale production


Obtain several ordinary 1 gallon jugs.

Place a two-hole stopper in the necks of the jugs.

Fit a short (6 inch) tube in one hole, leaving two inches
above the stopper. Fit a short rubber tube to this. Fill a
small (500 ml) Erlenmeyer flask with a dilute solution of
sodium hypochlorite (NaClO). Extend a glass tube from the
rubber so the end is immersed in the hypochlorite.

Fit a long glass tube in the other stopper hole. It must
reach near the bottom of the jug and have about two inches
showing above the stopper. Attach a rubber tube to the glass
tube and fit a short glass tube to the end of the rubber tube.


Fill a large glass tube (1" x 6") with sterile cotton and fit
one-hole stoppers in the ends. Fit the small glass tube in
the end of the rubber tube into one stopper of the large tube.
Fit another small glass tube into the other stopper. A rubber
tube is connected to this and attached to small air pump
(obtained from a tropical fish store).

With this aeration equipment you can assure a supply of clean
air to the Claviceps Purpurea fungus while maintaining a
sterile environment inside the solution.

Dismantle the aerators. Place all the glass tubes, rubber
tubes, stoppers and cotton in a paper bag, seal tightly with
wire staples and sterilize in an autoclave.

Fill the 1-gallon jugs 2/3 to 3/4 full with the culture medium
and autoclave.

While these things are being sterilized, homogenize in a
blender the culture already obtained and use it to inoculate
the material in the gallon jugs. The blender must be sterile.

EVERYTHING must be sterile.


Assemble the aerators. Start the pumps. A slow bubbling in
each jug will provide enough oxygen to the cultures. A single
pump may be connected to several filters.

Let everything sit at room temperature (25 C) in a dark place
(never expose ergot alkaloids to bright light - they will
decompose) for a period of ten days.

After ten days, adjust the culture to 1% ethanol using 95%
ethanol under sterile conditions. Maintain growth for another
two weeks.

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Offlinemerovinge
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: RasHelio1]
    #6984780 - 05/29/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

If you're looking for a source of ergot, JLF Non-Consumables has dried honeydew stage ergot for not terribly much.  It shouldn't take much more than some water and a blender to make a solution for inoculating a little section of rye or some other appropriate host.  My personal guess is that this is the easier way of cultivating ergot... just let nature do the work.  I'm fairly certain from my reading that almost all ergot produces alkaloids in reasonable amounts, the problem arises in getting them to produce in submerged culture, which would mean that you probably wouldn't even have the luxury of assaying the alkaloid content of the different strains you find in the field or purchase without growing each individually in submerged culture and then extracting, chromatographing, etc.

I also read (though I think it was Uncle Fester, whom I really don't trust...) that ergot hasn't been eliminated in grain production, it's just picked out at the elevators. So maybe if anyone's ballsack is big enough to go running around asking potentially closed-minded grain elevator workers/owners/managers for well-known precursors to LSD, perhaps they wouldn't mind just giving it to such a diligent amateur (or perhaps professional :wink: ) mycologist.
   
If you're interested in finding the nitty-gritty scientific procedure, the best consolidated source I've found is Otto Snow's book "LSD".  Not as much of a book as much as a solid collection of journal articles, patents, and other scholarly sources, but nice to have nevertheless.  If someone's really interested in anything contained in it, I suppose I could type some of it out... I think the amazon page for it has a table of contents in the "Look Inside" sample... tell me what you'd like to see. Also, the previous little tek in this thread looked at a quick glance like the one in "Psychedelic Chemistry," though, frankly, I didn't bother to read much of that particular post.  There's a much greater variety of procedures which are likely more tried and true in "LSD".

Hope it's useful information for someone... maybe after SWIM gets things ironed out on his own, there'll be a photo tek in the future... sounds like a good use of time.  SWIM tells me it makes him sad to not find good L around... Like I said, though, don't be afraid to ask for a snippet or two of the book that interests you.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Ergot cultivation [Re: Nalim]
    #6985450 - 05/30/07 01:18 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

Reason:
I requested several times to keep this on topic as a mycology thread. This is advanced mycology. It is not an LSD making forum.

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