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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6631825 - 03/03/07 03:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Make sure your diapers are secure.



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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Luddite]
    #6634458 - 03/04/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

What the fuck are you talking about? Care you explain yerself?


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: guri]
    #6642821 - 03/06/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guri said:
interpret the bible? kinda sounds like interpreting the koran. It's this sort of thought process that leads to the violence in the first place.




You cannot take things at face value, because most of the time they are not what they seem. As humans, we interpret everything, from the Bible, Qur'an, to saying that you have green shoelaces, because as we all know, everyone sees a different green.

:tongue:

Quote:

Although both these books have thier violent sections both also have thier peacefull sections.




Just referring to the New Testament, which is the culprit of Christianity, the only violence was the ones caused by those against the teachings of the religion. Mohammed on the other hand was a warlord who preached religious warfare.

Quote:


Because of these contrasts, i propose a new MAN LAW: If your religion contradicts itself, go with the less violent of the two choices.




Christianity does not advocate violence. It's just that, a good 95% of all Christians take everything literally (ironically in the same way as the "skeptics"), arguing some useless facts that the Bible never proposed in the first place.

Quote:


Or just decide its bunk from the start, and take up science fiction writting and start your own religion.




Why would I decide something is false when it makes more logical sense than any other argument I've encountered, and makes me understand life more?

I've also got a big golden framed picture of J R Dobbs at my office at work. Alternative "so much of a joke it's fucking serious" religions quench my satire fix.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6642994 - 03/06/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
(Heidegger was a Nazi bastard... interesting philosopher though. )




Heidegger was overall a weird son of a bitch. He was one of those people who made a many interesting writings, but that intrinsic personality didn't project itself externally.

Quote:


That is still a matter of interpretation and speculation. Just about anyone can come along and interpret that painting in whatever way they prefer.




Paintings are symbols, and symbols are made when our thought is not enough to express the message. A symbol is something beneath the picture, not the picture itself, however anyone sees it.

Quote:


Abstraction implies phenomenal non-existence. If God is an abstraction, just a confusing way of viewing reality, then we shouldn't need to believe in him for any reason other than aesthetics.




All knowledge is confusing until you get it. However, not all can be understood in the sense that, say, science is understood, by reading a bunch of different colored lines, or smashing shit against each other.

All you skeptics are trying to understand what a church is, and since it is made out of bricks, you think the bricks are what the church is all about. You take apart the church, and you have a bunch of bricks, but still have no idea what the church is. And then someone really smart comes along, has a eureka and says, "Ah, but it's what's inside the bricks that counts!" So everyone tries smashing the bricks to even smaller pieces thinking that somewhere inside those bricks they'll find the meaning for church, religion, or God.

Whether it be bricks, or protons/anti-protons, you're smashing together, it's a great way to understand bricks, but dont expect to, as Einstein put it, know the Mind of God inside those specks.


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Diploid]
    #6643412 - 03/06/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
1 First God made heaven & earth 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light";

In other words, the Earth existed BEFORE the "Let There Be Light" Big Bang part.






Notice how it says, the earth was "without form and void", meaning that it's not referring to the planet, as The Earth (notice how you capitalized it while the Bible does not referred to it in a different sense) has a definite shape (an elliptical sphere). The earth was simply the structure of this existence at the time. It was without form and void indeed, as the high energy state of the birth of this universe probably even split apart the cohesion of quarks.

Quote:


11 And God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, upon the earth." And it was so.

then 10 verses LATER:

21So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind.

In other words, contrary to the fossil record, Genesis says fruit trees existed BEFORE any animals did.




First of all, nowhere does it say that apples were created before tigers or bears, the crux of the meaning is that indeed trees and vegetation were created before animals. Vegetation makes 21% of the planet's oxygen, so of course it's preceding animal and fish life. Take also into account that this book was written three thousand years ago, before any scientific or evolutionary theories sprang into place. A thousand years before Aristotle even.


Edited by Fospher (03/07/07 12:23 AM)


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Fospher]
    #6643437 - 03/06/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I think for anyone to truly interpret religious writ and their meanings need to have some understanding of the original language of the writ. In regard to Semitic languages at least, many words have root meanings attributed eons ago. When interpreters carry on the original message into other languages, "dirt" might suddenly become "earthen" in one interpretation and "Earth" in another.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Fospher]
    #6643595 - 03/06/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Gentlemen, this is getting closer and closer to S&P material with every post.

The original post had to do with suicide bombers. That DOES have some relation to politics, activism, and law. Let's try to bring the discussion back in that direction, shall we?



Phred


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OfflineFospher
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Phred]
    #6643805 - 03/07/07 12:09 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Considering the originator of the thread brought the discussion in this direction with his first retort, can you just move it?


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Fospher]
    #6654534 - 03/09/07 11:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

All knowledge is confusing until you get it. However, not all can be understood in the sense that, say, science is understood, by reading a bunch of different colored lines, or smashing shit against each other.

All you skeptics are trying to understand what a church is, and since it is made out of bricks, you think the bricks are what the church is all about. You take apart the church, and you have a bunch of bricks, but still have no idea what the church is. And then someone really smart comes along, has a eureka and says, "Ah, but it's what's inside the bricks that counts!" So everyone tries smashing the bricks to even smaller pieces thinking that somewhere inside those bricks they'll find the meaning for church, religion, or God.

Whether it be bricks, or protons/anti-protons, you're smashing together, it's a great way to understand bricks, but dont expect to, as Einstein put it, know the Mind of God inside those specks.




If God cannot be known through the use of the senses, how can he/she/it be known? The majority of religious persons use ancient writings, such as the Bible, the Vedas, etc, to become better acquainted with their cultural stereotype of God. Why should I trust these archaic books over my own personal sensory experience? How can we know that the Bible, or any other 'holy' book, is actually inspired by God and not merely a natural product of philosophical evolution?


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Invisibleit stars saddam
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Fospher]
    #6654863 - 03/10/07 01:51 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

What sucks worse, having a hammer slammed into your face or listening to religious people misinterpret Einstein?

I'm going to have to go with the latter.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6654903 - 03/10/07 02:39 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
If God cannot be known through the use of the senses, how can he/she/it be known?



I would say a better way of putting it is that God cannot be known through the five physical senses. There are higher states of awareness beyond what we sense in our everyday lives.

Quote:

How can we know that the Bible, or any other 'holy' book, is actually inspired by God and not merely a natural product of philosophical evolution?



I contend that the two are not mutually exclusive. I feel that God is progressively revealed in a context which can be understood by the culture at the time. When we look at the Bible from the Torah to the prophetic books to the New Testament, we find an increasingly sophisticated understanding of God.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Silversoul]
    #6655236 - 03/10/07 09:13 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
If God cannot be known through the use of the senses, how can he/she/it be known?



I would say a better way of putting it is that God cannot be known through the five physical senses. There are higher states of awareness beyond what we sense in our everyday lives.




... but, what makes you believe there are higher states of awareness beyond what we sense?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Silversoul]
    #6655238 - 03/10/07 09:15 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
If God cannot be known through the use of the senses, how can he/she/it be known?



I would say a better way of putting it is that God cannot be known through the five physical senses. There are higher states of awareness beyond what we sense in our everyday lives.




Oh there are, huh? I don't suppose you'd like to provide an example of this Easter Bunny or what eggs it may have laid for the supposedly "Enlightened Ones". A statement of fact that is utterly unsupported by any evidence whatsoever. But have fun with it, it's your toy.
Quote:



Quote:

How can we know that the Bible, or any other 'holy' book, is actually inspired by God and not merely a natural product of philosophical evolution?



I contend that the two are not mutually exclusive. I feel that God is progressively revealed in a context which can be understood by the culture at the time. When we look at the Bible from the Torah to the prophetic books to the New Testament, we find an increasingly sophisticated understanding of God.




Well you might somehow dredge something like that up from your "understanding". Rational students find an increasing agglomeration of nonsense piled on top of other nonsense that continues on through the Koran and also has parallel manifestations in Buddhist and Hindu texts and whatever other nonsense systems you care to name.

I ask again, Where are the eggs? Surely there must be some unique accomplishment assignable to these Higher States that could not otherwise have been. And don't bother telling me the unique product of nonsense is nonsense, because I am willing to stipulate that.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Fospher]
    #6655248 - 03/10/07 09:18 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

And, to illustrate my point (yes, you guessed it), Robert Anton Wilson:

Quote:

I peeked at the G.O.P. convention a few times and concluded that we still live in the neurolinguistic Dark Ages.

Let me enlarge on that perhaps gnomic remark. I distinguish between information, all that humans can check by experience, as distinct from noise, those "things" [or non-things, or nothings] that they can only make noises or chatter about.

Examples: (A) I can say "If you open that box on the table, you will find three chocolates inside." Going to the box and opening it, in the sensory-sensual continuum, will quickly confirm or refute my statement, because you will inevitably find (1) less than three chocolates, or perhaps none at all, (2) exactly three chocolates, or (3) more than three chocolates. Results (1) and (3) refute my statement; (2) confirms it.

But (B) I might also say "Opening God for similar investigation, you will find three persons inside," as in fact Romish Magick does say. No investigation of the sensory-sensual manifold can ever confirm or refute this. Scientific philosophers generally describe such statements [about things beyond conformation or refutation] as "meaningless". Following Korzybski, I call them noise, and I venture that we cannot fathom our situation in space-time if we habitually confuse ourselves by mixing type (A) statments, information, with type (B) statements, noise. We may never achieve Total Clarity [short of infinity] but we should at least have the ability to distinguish between what humans can experience and what they can only blather about.

Distinguishing between these two types of statements seems necessary for sanity and survival, because all forms of illusion, delusion, mob hysteria, hallucination etc., dogma, bigotry, "madness," intolerance etc. "idealism," ideology, idiocy, obsession etc. depend upon confusing them. The people who released poison gas in the Tokyo subways, the Nazis, the Marxists, nut-cults like Objectivism, Heaven's Gate, Scientology, etc. represent some of the horrors and curses unleashed by mixing Class (A) statements with Class (B) statements.

I don't expect any better of the Democrats when their convention rolls around. Politics, like theology, consists of much noise and no information.




Edited by MushmanTheManic (03/10/07 09:32 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6655271 - 03/10/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

What year was that from?


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #6655272 - 03/10/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

This thread is begging to be locked/moved


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6655276 - 03/10/07 09:30 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

'98 or '99


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber [Re: Diploid]
    #6655502 - 03/10/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

A portrait of a very highly disciplined, but ultimately misguided individual. I respect their will, but they are deluded.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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