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Offlineturkeyphant
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Psychedelic drugs in medicine
    #6577628 - 02/17/07 10:11 AM (17 years, 2 days ago)

Hey psychedelic people. I'm currently a student at a UK university studying the History and Philosophy of Science. At the moment I'm writing a dissertation on psychedelic drugs and their history. I want to cover the research done in the 60s; psychedelics as an adjunct to psychotherapy; treatments for OCD, cluster headaches, schizophrenia, alcoholism and terminal patients; underground therapy using Shulgin's phenethylamines and tryptamines; and the future of psychedelics in medical science with particular reference to organisations such as MAPS.

As such, I'd really appreciate any of your comments and opinions on any of the matters mentioned above. I'm particularly keen on hearing your theories for the neglect of psychedelic chemicals in modern medicine, promising studies and journal articles you think I may have overlooked in my research and promising reports on the medical use of psychedelics other than LSD, mescaline, psilocybin.

I'd also be really interested to hear your experiences with psychedelics - both the positives they have brought to your life and negative experiences, flashbacks or dangers you perceive in their use. Or just to let me know your general opinions about psychedelics especially with regard to their medical licensing and legality.

Feel free to reply in this thread or PM me if you prefer. Mods: I hope this thread is in the right place, but if it's not, feel free to move it.

Cheers.


Edited by turkeyphant (02/17/07 12:10 PM)


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InvisibleIndividual
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: turkeyphant]
    #6577884 - 02/17/07 10:49 AM (17 years, 2 days ago)

I know that lsd was used on alcoholics to change their perception of life, so they would stop drinking.


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THE PHILOSOPHY OF LIBERTY <---                                               



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Offlinelysergicide
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: Individual]
    #6578205 - 02/17/07 12:51 PM (17 years, 2 days ago)

Ketamine was first reported in 1962 as part of an effort to find a safer anaesthetic alternative to Phencyclidine (PCP), which was more likely to cause hallucinations and seizures. The drug was first given to American soldiers during the Vietnam War, but today in the developed world its use on humans has been dramatically curtailed because of exaggerated concern about its potential to cause emergence phenomena including out-of-body experiences in clinical practice. However, it is still used widely in veterinary medicine, or as a battlefield anaesthetic in developing nations.

In medical settings, Ketamine is usually given intravenously or intramuscularly, but it is also effective when insufflated, smoked, or taken orally.

Since it suppresses breathing much less than most other available anaesthetics, ketamine is still used in human medicine as a first-choice anaesthetic for victims with unknown medical history (e.g. from traffic accidents), in podiatry and other minor surgery, and occasionally for the treatment of migraine. There is ongoing research in France, Russia, and the U.S. into the drug's usefulness in pain therapy, depression suppression, and for the treatment of alcoholism and heroin addiction. In veterinary medicine, ketamine is often used for its anaesthetic and analgesic effects on cats, dogs, rabbits, rats, and other small animals. Veterinarians often use ketamine with sedative drugs to produce balanced anaesthesia and analgesia, and as a constant rate infusion to help prevent pain wind-up. Ketamine is used to manage pain among horses and other large animals, though it has less effect on bovines.

Ketamine may be used in small doses (0.1–0.5 mg/kg/h) as a local anesthetic[2], particularly for the treatment of pain associated with movement and neuropathic pain. It has the added benefit of counter-acting spinal sensitization or wind-up phenomena experienced with chronic pain. At these doses, the psychotropic side effects are less apparent and well managed with benzodiazepines. Ketamine is a co-analgesic, and so is most effective when used alongside a low-dose opioid; while it does have analgesic effects by itself, the higher doses required can cause disorientating side effects. The combination of ketamine and opioids is however particularly useful for severe pain such as that caused by cancer, as it allows smaller doses of opioids to be used with correspondingly reduced severity of opioid side effects such as respiratory depression and nausea.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketamine

It also wouldn't be a bad idea to mention Ibogaine and it's use to treat addiction.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: lysergicide]
    #6578219 - 02/17/07 01:00 PM (17 years, 2 days ago)

^ exactly, and you might want to look into MDMA as well, they use it against PTSD and for marriage counseling, but they know all about it at MAPS.

There are also ayahuasca therapies against drug addiction (here's a treatment center in Peru: www.takiwasi.com/eng/index.php).

Good luck, and do share your paper with us, maybe we can review it before you hand it in.


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Offlineaelephant
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: Aldous]
    #6578465 - 02/17/07 02:05 PM (17 years, 2 days ago)

I would definitely love to see the paper if possible as this is a topic pretty near and dear to me.

I don't have time to give you a full account of my experiences, but perhaps I will later when I have more time.


--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine


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Offlinelsd25icu812
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: aelephant]
    #6579086 - 02/17/07 04:38 PM (17 years, 2 days ago)

i would really like to get back to you about this.... i had a little therapy of my own today.. soo its kind of hard to throw my thoughts down.... i think ill pm you


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love is what is left when you"ve let go of everything you love


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Offlineturkeyphant
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: lsd25icu812]
    #6579270 - 02/17/07 06:55 PM (17 years, 2 days ago)

While there are so many things I want to cover, time and space constraints mean I can't write about everything. As such, I'm mostly going to ignore empathogens like MDMA or methylone and dissociative psychedelics like ketamine. However, I am interested in the use of ibogaine and ayahuasca.

Thanks for all your comments everyone. Please keep them coming.


--------------------
turkeyphant.org


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: turkeyphant]
    #6582573 - 02/18/07 06:44 PM (17 years, 1 day ago)

A very important recent paper is Griffiths paper: Psilocybin can occasion mystical experiences having substantial and sustained personal meaning and spiritual significance.

This was a very rigorous study that scientifically showed that psilocybin produces mystical experiences, and also had many lasting positive changes for the participants. One very interesting thing to note about this study is that a former deputy directer of the white house office of national drug control policy, and a former director of NIDA both praised the study. Their commentary can be found in the same issue of Psychopharmacology as the study.

An important study in the 90's showed that it is now possible to conduct research in the US again, this was Rick Strassman's research.

His papers:

Strassman RJ, Qualls CR. Dose-response study of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in humans. I. Neuroendocrine, autonomic and cardiovascular effects. Archives of General Psychiatry. 51:85-97, 1994.

Strassman RJ, Qualls CR, Uhlenhuth EH, Kellner R. Dose-response study of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in humans. II. Subjective effects and preliminary results of a new rating scale. Archives of General Psychiatry. 51:98-108, 1994.

The OCD study was published last November:

Moreno, FA, Author, Reprint Author Moreno Francisco A. Moreno, Francisco A. , Wiegand, CB, et al.
Safety, tolerability, and efficacy of psilocybin in 9 patients with obsessive-compulsive disorder
J CLIN PSYCHIAT 67 (11): 1735-1740 NOV 2006

I think it is pretty well established that the reason psychedelic research was delayed for 30 years was the politics of the 60's. There was a recent article in the chronicle of higher education that talks about this:

Researchers Explore New Visions for Hallucinogens. By: Brown, Susan. Chronicle of Higher Education, 12/8/2006, Vol. 53 Issue 16, pA12-A15, 4p;

That last one should be particularly helpfull.

There was a cool short documentary on Charles Grob's research with psilocybin and end stage cancer patients:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1351881&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

the above video is really cool

thats all for now


Edited by Freedom (02/18/07 07:10 PM)


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OfflineOMniversal
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: Freedom]
    #6582658 - 02/18/07 07:13 PM (17 years, 1 day ago)

I don't have time to write any of my experiences, but this is a topic that I'm also greatly interested in..If you haven't done so already, Id suggest reading material by Dr. Stanislav Grof. He's had over 40+ years experience with research into altered states of consciousness and their therapeutic use, definitely recommend him.

Good luck!


--------------------
"We contemplate the same stars, the Heavens are common to us all, and the same world surrounds us. What matters the path of wisdom by which each person seeks the truth? One cannot reach such a great mystery by a single path." - Symmachus, challenging the violent persecution of pagans by Catholic Roman emperor Theodosius I

"When you look at yourself from a universal standpoint, something inside always reminds or informs you that there are bigger and better things to worry about."
-Einstein


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Offlinecharon123
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: OMniversal]
    #6583004 - 02/18/07 08:30 PM (17 years, 1 day ago)

I really like this idea, especially because I am looking into pharmacology as a career. Some more things you could cover in this paper:

Rehabilitation using psychedelics:
shrooms in prison:
http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/leary_timothy/leary_timothy_concord_prison1.shtml

anything about mdma rehabilitation


And also, crazy shit like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA

"Gottlieb was known to torture victims by locking them in sensory deprivation chambers while under the psychedelic influence of LSD, or to make recordings of psychiatric patients' therapy sessions, and then play a tape loop of the patient's most self-degrading statement over and over through headphones after the patient had been restrained in a straitjacket and dosed with LSD. Gottlieb himself took LSD frequently, locking himself in his office and taking copious notes.

Efforts to "recruit" subjects were often illegal even discounting the fact that drugs were being administered (though actual use of LSD, for example, was legal in the United States until 1967). In Operation Midnight Climax, the CIA set up several brothels to obtain a selection of men who would be too embarrassed to talk about the events. The brothels were equipped with one-way mirrors and the "sessions" were taped for later viewing.

Some subjects' participation was consensual, and in these cases, the subjects appeared to be singled out for even more horrific experiments. In one case, a selection of volunteers were given LSD for 69 days straight.

LSD was eventually dismissed by the researchers as too unpredictable in its effects.[2] Although useful information was sometimes obtained through questioning subjects on LSD, not uncommonly the most marked effect would be the subject's absolute and utter certainty that they were able to withstand any form of interrogation attempt, even physical torture."  :eek:

Good luck.


--------------------
*This post is entirely fictional. I bought a box of Cracker Jacks and looked for the prize inside, which happened to be this strange tale. This is something unusual to find in junk food, so I decided to post it here.*


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: charon123]
    #6592768 - 02/21/07 05:36 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Here's another link. I like this one cause of the source: the US FDA :smile:

Medical Possibilities for Psychedelic Drugs


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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: Freedom]
    #6593382 - 02/21/07 11:18 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this.

Magic mushrooms are extremely effective at treating depression. In fact, I think that if it were "discovered" by a drug company and sold in a pill, it would be hailed as the "miracle drug of depression".

Regular anti-depressants prescription medications are dangerous in comparison to magic mushrooms, IMO, because of the side-effects.


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Offlineturkeyphant
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: Freedom]
    #6593778 - 02/21/07 01:20 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
There was a cool short documentary on Charles Grob's research with psilocybin and end stage cancer patients:

http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1351881&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1




Thanks very much. I've read all the other papers (those are exactly the sort of thing I am after), but hadn't seen this video. Cheers for pointing it out.


--------------------
turkeyphant.org


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Offlineturkeyphant
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: pokermush]
    #6593783 - 02/21/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
[url=http://anonym.to/?http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/795_psyche.html]Medical Possibilities for Psychedelic Drugs[/url]




Quote:

pokermush said:
Magic mushrooms are extremely effective at treating depression. In fact, I think that if it were "discovered" by a drug company and sold in a pill, it would be hailed as the "miracle drug of depression".




Thanks you two - that's great stuff.

pokermush - do you have a link to the article making these claims?  I'm not sure whether I've read about this left and the only recent document I can find at the moment about treating depression used ketamine.

Please keep the information coming, Shroomers :smile:


--------------------
turkeyphant.org


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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: turkeyphant]
    #6597049 - 02/22/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Turkey,

Well, I don't recall seeing properly conducted studies on psilocybin and depression. However, my own experience has been that it completely eliminates depressive tendencies in myself for a period of 1 to 4 weeks after tripping. I've seen many others report the same thing in their posts here.

Now that I think about it, I think that the Johns-Hopkins study did find that (anti-depression) to be one of the long-term side effects of psilocybin in their study.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html

Quote:

Two months later, 79 percent of subjects reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction compared with those given a placebo at the same test session. A majority said their mood, attitudes and behaviors had changed for the better. Structured interviews with family members, friends and co-workers generally confirmed the subjects’ remarks. Results of a year-long followup are being readied for publication.




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OfflineXtals
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: turkeyphant]
    #6602105 - 02/23/07 01:23 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I hope that you're going to be comparing the attitudes of the psychedelics crowd with the evidence available. You'll probably get a lot of wacky, far out theories about how shrooms, LSD, etc. are "the best known cure for" X, Y and Z, while the objective evidence will simply suggest that a given drug MAY have application to a medical condition.

I also wonder what the point of asking us what our interpretation of how our experiences have affect our lives is. I certainly hope you don't take anyone's word for it. I hope you compare what is claimed with some objective measure. I have a feeling many people will give you the standard, "Psychedelics have helped me overcome anxiety; be more creative; etc." Any evidence for this? I doubt it. On the other hand, given the nature of this community, you have a very biased sample, so you're not going to get people who are motivated to say that psychedelics have destroyed their capacity to think. Quite obviously, these forums don't appeal to those people.

If I were reading or reviewing your paper, that's what I'd look for. If you took any of the self-reported theories or claims here seriously without evidence, I'd fail you on the spot.

My own interpretation of my hundreds of psychedelic drug trips is that I really don't know what affect they had on my life. I only have one "me" to compare myself with. Even some of my most life-changing moments that involved drugs are entirely ambiguous. For how can I really and genuinely say that I would not have made the same or similar decisions without the drug? I can't. Many people think that they "know" what they would do in different, entirely unique situations. These are metaphysical assertions and not scientific assertions.

Psychedelics helped me get through university, but not by using them. I have always found these drugs interesting, even before I was using them. Of course, I can't really say that without using them that I would have remained interested, but my interest in psychedelics through my chemistry degree was not directly related to my own personal use (I had stopped using by the start of my 2nd year of chemistry). I guess I find these substances fascinating because science is all about experience and finding the limits to repeatable experiences and explaining experiences. Psychedelics help us push the boundaries of what science can explore.

IMO, the pushing of those boundaries has helped science and not the vague mysticism that can sometimes be expressed on these forums. That's why I'm a fan of these substances.

Quote:

turkeyphant said:
I'm particularly keen on hearing your theories for the neglect of psychedelic chemicals in modern medicine . . .

I'd also be really interested to hear your experiences with psychedelics . . .




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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: Xtals]
    #6605163 - 02/24/07 10:14 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Have you looked at the MAPS mailing list? It is intended for discussion of just this kind of topic, and has many good people. You can see the archives here: http://www.maps.org/foruminfo.html

Another article, Flashback: Psychiatric Experimentation With LSD in Historical Perspective, from the Canadian journal of psychiatry has a good overview:

Quote:

By the mid-1960s, the growing popular association of radicalized youth and psychedelic drugs further reinforced LSD’s image as a dangerous recreational drug and one, therefore, not worth serious medical attention. Despite repeated protests from certified psychiatrists, governments throughout the Western world criminalized the drug. These decisions profoundly altered the image of psychedelics in popular and medical circles. In Canada, the legal decisions stemmed from recommendations made by the Commission of Inquiry into the Non-Medical Use of Drugs (the LeDain Commission) (44). The LeDain report discounted testimony from individuals who had first-hand experiences with psychedelics. This criterion excluded psychedelic psychiatrists from contributing to debates over the legal status of LSD and, instead, privileged perspectives offered by their professional critics. Consequently, psychedelic psychiatry appeared dangerous, unscientific, and unethical by both popular and legal accounts. In 1966, the Sandoz Pharmaceutical Company (which manufactured LSD) voluntarily ended its distribution of the drug. Sandoz maintained that its legitimate supplies were not responsible for either the black market or the dangerous side effects but that the “unforeseen public reaction” necessitated the removal of Sandoz LSD (45).




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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Psychedelic drugs in medicine [Re: Freedom]
    #6605192 - 02/24/07 10:27 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2003 Jun;75(3):593-606 claims that iboga reduces drinking in alcoholic rats.

Treatment of alcoholism using psychedelic drugs: a review of the program of research. (J Psychoactive Drugs. 1998 Oct-Dec;30(4):381-418. ) Looks like a good review, but my instutution doesn't carry the journal...


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