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 zzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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 Re: How do You define 'Insanity'?  [Re: Kickle]
#15106113 - 09/20/11 12:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
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Kickle said:
hey man, keep on doing what you think is right. I think it's admirable that you volunteer.
My point was that no one is willing to sacrifice what they have but many expect the rich to do exactly that. It's the same for them as it is for everyone else who is unwilling to take a step down. And many will have the same answer as you: it won't solve the problem even if I do. And I think that's 100% true.
I KNOW of people that DO choose to live simpler, and I dont really think you grasp just HOW rich the top small percentage of rich ARE? How the heck can you equate them with ordinary people? But you do, and thus justify their oppressive insanity which is causing so much horror for many, and other species, and all of nature.
There SHOULD be abudance for all. But you think that me or someone choosing poverty must be the honest answer---you worldview seems so naive to me. You dont seem to dig about propaganda and the social engineering and psychological techniques these elites do on people TO keep the power structure the way it is. They LOVE people like you who are apologists for them.
well to be honest I don't see how anything you wrote even addresses what I'm talking about. We're on very different pages. There SHOULD be abundance for all? Why is this a SHOULD? It's not the way it works for anything in nature, not even the ever-peaceful tree. Is nature evil for not allowing what you feel SHOULD be?
Do me a favour, nature left to itself is FAR more sustainable and therefore abundant than when humans who are NOT sustainable come upon it and destroy it. This is so---desertification is the disease of civilizations going way back in history.
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Kickle
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: zzripz]
#15106123 - 09/20/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Splitting humans from nature is a mistake IMO. We are just as entwined with nature as any other species and many have gone extinct regardless of your proposed sustainability. Ultimately no thing lasts forever so it's only a matter of time. Even stars have an expiration date.
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zzripz
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Posts: 8,292
Loc: Manchester, UK
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Kickle]
#15110400 - 09/21/11 03:04 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Splitting humans from nature is a mistake IMO. We are just as entwined with nature as any other species and many have gone extinct regardless of your proposed sustainability. Ultimately no thing lasts forever so it's only a matter of time. Even stars have an expiration date.
I am not meaning splitting humans from nature. Thats just it, you cant because we ARE nature. There's no such thing as humans and nature as two different things.
What I emphasized was humans who cannot live sustainably, as many indigenous poeples did/do for FAR longer than civilization, and the 'taker mentality'.
And of course things dont last forever, but this is cyclic. The tree doesn't leaf for ever--generally---bust sheds its leaves which nourishes the soil. It doesn't throw toxic waste into the soil.
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Kickle
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: zzripz]
#15111115 - 09/21/11 10:02 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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If we are not separate from nature then quite simply all of our behaviors are also a part of nature. Even the ones you don't like. Blame nature if you want to place blame somewhere, it made us the species we are.
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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GoddessOfLove
Mother Monster
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Kickle]
#15111336 - 09/21/11 11:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is an area of the mind that could be called unsane, beyond sanity, and yet not insane. Think of a circle with a fine split in it. At one end there's insanity. You go around the circle to sanity, and on the other end of the circle, close to insanity, but not insanity, is unsanity.
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 liquidlounge
Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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True freedom (inside your mind) and happiness is insanity, the complete opposite is also insanity...
Everything is built on happiness and sadness, nothing is built on 'in the middle', and 'in the middle' is what we know as "sane aka normal".
The masses are sane, the others are insane.
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As far as I assume to know...
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zzripz
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Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Kickle]
#15111926 - 09/21/11 01:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
If we are not separate from nature then quite simply all of our behaviors are also a part of nature. Even the ones you don't like. Blame nature if you want to place blame somewhere, it made us the species we are.
That is ducking responsibility for your OWN actions!
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Kickle
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: zzripz]
#15114222 - 09/21/11 09:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
If we are not separate from nature then quite simply all of our behaviors are also a part of nature. Even the ones you don't like. Blame nature if you want to place blame somewhere, it made us the species we are.
That is ducking responsibility for your OWN actions!
How do you figure? I'm genuinely curious what actions you feel I am not taking responsibility for.
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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healing
Strangest
Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Kickle]
#15115562 - 09/22/11 03:07 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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People do not act on their own. They are a product of nature. Nature controls us completely. We have no free will.
edit: 1,000 yay!
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Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (09/22/11 03:08 AM)
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tospace
Registered: 12/27/09
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Kickle] 1
#15115567 - 09/22/11 03:11 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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life is Insanity.
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a teenage girl looking for guidance
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zzripz
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: healing]
#15115743 - 09/22/11 04:52 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said:
People do not act on their own. They are a product of nature. Nature controls us completely. We have no free will.
edit: 1,000 yay!
THAT is the myth they tell you, and you buy it! They first make out nature is mechanical and determined and then claim you are. All I can recommend you do is find OUT for yourself what I mean. Ask questions. go where your spirits leads in your quest to see through their toxic myth
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zzripz
Stranger
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Loc: Manchester, UK
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Kickle]
#15115747 - 09/22/11 04:54 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
If we are not separate from nature then quite simply all of our behaviors are also a part of nature. Even the ones you don't like. Blame nature if you want to place blame somewhere, it made us the species we are.
That is ducking responsibility for your OWN actions!
How do you figure? I'm genuinely curious what actions you feel I am not taking responsibility for.
If you dont understand what I mean what can I do, you don't obviously--so understand.
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 3 days, 1 hour
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: zzripz]
#15116264 - 09/22/11 09:12 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
If we are not separate from nature then quite simply all of our behaviors are also a part of nature. Even the ones you don't like. Blame nature if you want to place blame somewhere, it made us the species we are.
That is ducking responsibility for your OWN actions!
How do you figure? I'm genuinely curious what actions you feel I am not taking responsibility for.
If you dont understand what I mean what can I do, you don't obviously--so understand.
My behaviors are natural, that's all the first post of this quote is saying. And seeing that has involved becoming less judgmental of others as it's all nature doing what nature does. Being less focused on blaming anyone in particular for my problems in turn leads to me taking greater responsibility for my own actions. So unless you can actually explain what you mean, I of course don't understand what you are talking about 
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 3 days, 1 hour
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: healing]
#15116280 - 09/22/11 09:21 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
healing said:
edit: 1,000 yay!
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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horus_92
Stranger
Registered: 08/15/11
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Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Kickle]
#15116378 - 09/22/11 09:56 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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All of these people saying "sanity is subjective" are foolish. If you've had any experience with psychotic breaks, either personally or with someone you care about, you'd know insanity isn't something to be romanticized, it's very real and very unpleasant.
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Fronnis
Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1,033
Last seen: 5 months, 28 days
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: zzripz]
#15116409 - 09/22/11 10:03 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
If we are not separate from nature then quite simply all of our behaviors are also a part of nature. Even the ones you don't like. Blame nature if you want to place blame somewhere, it made us the species we are.
That is ducking responsibility for your OWN actions!
How do you figure? I'm genuinely curious what actions you feel I am not taking responsibility for.
If you dont understand what I mean what can I do, you don't obviously--so understand.
Modern human society, including use of guns, weapons of mass destruction and our violence is all part of our nature (violence being a common trait in many animals), and the extent it has reached has been unavoidable due to our intellectual advancements. You may not like it, but it's all part of our nature and contributes to competitive behaviour for humans for population control, defense and to claim land and resources. You can argue that it's not in your nature, but how hard do you work and struggle to fight and survive for your next meal? Your biggest aim in life is not simply for survival, and because living for us western people is not so hard from what the government offer us, we need other ways to control our numbers.
In this world, the fittest survive, and look what has happened to past tribal civilizations. Also, just because people take part with old spiritual rituals or are part of tribes, does not make them non-violent or have values that cannot be considered bad even to us "despicable" western people. The mayans had rituals that involved human sacrifices, some native American tribes killed their own babies by stuffing their mouths with grass and leaving them to die and Aztecs still had war and violence in their culture.
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Edited by Fronnis (09/22/11 11:21 AM)
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
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Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Fronnis]
#15116878 - 09/22/11 12:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is quite complex but also simple if you begin letting go of your fixed rigid worldview. The way we get a handle on reality is usually through STORIES, myths. IF you think the story is that you are naturally violent 'like the animals', and there fore justify all the crap you are witnessing in this world and has happened, then that is the toxic myth that drives all your sensibilities.
Psychedelics LOOSEN these worldviews and help you see out of the box. This is why I do not see the world like you do.
Animals do NOT use toxic technology and warfare that is destroying the Werb of Life. UNLESS you and yo bro wake the fuck up it will get worse and worse, and YOU will be the ones with your limbs blown off from a depleted uranium tipped bomb like some of the little ones we have seen happen to in Iraq and other places, and the DU contamination continuing to contaminate the whole region causing hybrid cancers, horrific DNA damage etc, where they are bringing "PEACE"!
Edited by zzripz (09/22/11 12:06 PM)
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Fronnis
Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1,033
Last seen: 5 months, 28 days
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: zzripz]
#15116940 - 09/22/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said:
It is quite complex but also simple if you begin letting go of your fixed rigid worldview. The way we get a handle on reality is usually through STORIES, myths. IF you think the story is that you are naturally violent 'like the animals', and there fore justify all the crap you are witnessing in this world and has happened, then that is the toxic myth that drives all your sensibilities.
Psychedelics LOOSEN these worldviews and help you see out of the box. This is why I do not see the world like you do.
Animals do NOT use toxic technology and warfare that is destroying the Werb of Life. UNLESS you and yo bro wake the fuck up it will get worse and worse, and YOU will be the ones with your linbs blown off from a depleted uranium tipped bomb like some of the little ones we have seen happen to in Iraq and other places where they are bringing "PEACE"!
Rigid world view? You know nothing of my experience, and don't seem to understand that peace is not achievable by everyone. Your views seem extremely unrealistic and idealistically fueled to me, and it seems you feel a sense of pride and superiority from your drug use. How much of your life have you spent in Manchester?
Maybe if one day all hell breaks loose, us humans will live in a world you like to think about where all the survivors will work together peacefully for survival, or all fight for resources. Understand whilst you can live a life of "spiritual enlightenment", there are people in this world with completely different values, fighting or struggling for their survival.
Animals have toxins themselves, and kill just like us humans do, we are just different from them due to our intellect and the fact that survival isn't the biggest priority in life for many of us.
You are forgetting that I have tripped a good few times in my life, and you are talking of just your view and experience. And why would me "losing my ego" stop me from dying in a human caused catastrophe? I will have a lesser chance to compete for my own survival.
I think you have things to easy and you are very idealistic. Your trips further fuel your beliefs because you feel if you can feel so good and enlightened, everyone can. Other people have utterly different values to yours, and as much as you want that to change, it never will.
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Edited by Fronnis (09/22/11 12:37 PM)
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zzripz
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 8,292
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: Fronnis]
#15117715 - 09/22/11 03:14 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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well that is your worldview like i say. I dont have it easy though i DO have it easy compared to some of the unimaginable poverty i have seen in Africa etc where people are literally living in shit and litter dumps and they have to live hand to mouth and even the AIR isn't fit to breathe. Yet i STILL know I am oppressed.
It is not only me that know what a shit we are in, women who have been the brunt of the androcentric left brain dominators for many generations also have learned me many things which I have integrated with stuff I have learned in my own psychedelic experiences.
I dont need you to tell me what is what. I am sharing what I feel here. If you dont agree, fine. But I WILL share what I feel.
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Fronnis
Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1,033
Last seen: 5 months, 28 days
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Re: How do You define 'Insanity'? [Re: zzripz]
#15118119 - 09/22/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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As do I, but I never begin with offensively derogating your views, I just discuss and argue with my own.
Having lived in South Africa for a number of years, I know from experience how corrupted country values can be, the values of people's lives are to survive and the general ignorance of the rich and the better off.
You may not see it in my posts, but I keep anarchistic views as a personal philosophy, I can see corruption but I accept that it's not going to change, and I can feel myself liberated during my trips, but not having to feel superior for doing so.
As much as you feel oppressed, many enjoy their lives with modern society, enjoy the benefits our government brings to us and enjoy the values they have, and would argue with you when you say they are being "oppressed". As you said there are worse off people in Africa, they would do almost anything to be in your position.
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