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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591899 - 02/20/07 10:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

There's no need to denigrate my post by labeling it as "pointless." I am simply agreeing that you are in error by making blanket statements such as 'religious faithfuls are unintelligent' and 'religious individuals are weak.'

Quote:

so out there, as an outside power or a 'god'




What classifies "out there?"

To the majority of the United States populace the idea of God is anything but "out there."

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591902 - 02/20/07 10:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

inetiatic said:
Thus believing in something as farfetched as a 'belief' is almost hilarious, so one who truely is 'intelligent', im asking how THEY or YOU can believe in a 'god' or a power out of our control.




Believing in a belief? :confused:

I believe that the earth's rotation will produce the phenomenon that we refer to as the sun rising tomorrow. I accept that this is valid.

I personally would not base a belief upon something that I could not observe or otherwise provide substantiation for. Intelligent individuals can arrive at beliefs, taking into consideration the information that they have derived from their experience. Others might question the validity of these conclusions that they feel confident in making, yet this does not demonstrate that they are not intelligent in reaching these conclusions.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6591912 - 02/20/07 11:00 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Divine presence is very outlandish, care to explain? Who's to say these are not simple triggers by your brain to make you enjoy things, or feel 'warmth' by actions or thoughts? Maybe the difference in religions is the difference in the humans brain to enjoy/feel warmth for different actions or thoughts?

I see all these religions as who can brain wash the masses better.

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OfflineContinuum
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: Silversoul]
    #6591918 - 02/20/07 11:01 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

inetiatic said:
How can your grandfather, or you, believe in something so out there, as an outside power or a 'god'?



Maybe because to some people, it's not so "out there." Some people do not simply swallow propaganda about God, but in fact feel the divine presence in their daily life.




surely, given the fact that you're on this site, you've had some pscyhedelic experiences, no?

your brain, if working in the appropriate manner, can make you "feel" and "think" alot of crazy things... and this is with or without drugs.


Hence, it'll have to be more than a "feeling" to convince anyone seriously inquisitive.

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591941 - 02/20/07 11:03 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Who's to say these are not simple triggers by your brain to make you enjoy things, or feel 'warmth' by actions or thoughts?




Who's to say that these chemical reactions are not communicative devices employed by God?

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: Continuum]
    #6591943 - 02/20/07 11:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I have actually never put anything in my body in which alters my mind. Apart from the small doses of caffeine and common chemicals/substances.

I have never, drank,smoke, eat or taken anything in my life that alters my brain. (EG:No alcohol, marajuana ect.)

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OfflineContinuum
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591955 - 02/20/07 11:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

inetiatic said:
I have actually never put anything in my body in which alters my mind. Apart from the small doses of caffeine and common chemicals/substances.

I have never, drank,smoke, eat or taken anything in my life that alters my brain. (EG:No alcohol, marajuana ect.)




I was actually talking to the other guy, but you can probably imagine I'm quite curious anyway: what the hell brings you here? lol

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591958 - 02/20/07 11:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

inetiatic said:
I have never, drank,smoke, eat or taken anything in my life that alters my brain. (EG:No alcohol, marajuana ect.)




Don't be so certain. There are innumerable aspects of our environment which interact with us in manners that alter our consciousness and our chemical compositions in our brains. Unless your sense of smell, hearing, sight, taste, and touch do not function, then your brain is being altered all the time.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: Continuum]
    #6591972 - 02/20/07 11:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Continuum said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

inetiatic said:
How can your grandfather, or you, believe in something so out there, as an outside power or a 'god'?



Maybe because to some people, it's not so "out there." Some people do not simply swallow propaganda about God, but in fact feel the divine presence in their daily life.




surely, given the fact that you're on this site, you've had some pscyhedelic experiences, no?

your brain, if working in the appropriate manner, can make you "feel" and "think" alot of crazy things... and this is with or without drugs.


Hence, it'll have to be more than a "feeling" to convince anyone seriously inquisitive.



Convince, maybe not. But it can certainly inspire, and lead one to investigate further.


--------------------

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6591982 - 02/20/07 11:10 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

vigilant_mind said:
Quote:

Who's to say these are not simple triggers by your brain to make you enjoy things, or feel 'warmth' by actions or thoughts?




Who's to say that these chemical reactions are not communicative devices employed by God?





So you are telling me, an unknown, no way to be proven 'power' is altering your mind/and its thought proccess. So if i can conclude on what you are saying, thousands of religions in the world IS really the battle between what 'god'(If 'god' is what controls our BRAIN functions) is able to influence ones mind the most?

But then if this 'third party' power was to control your thought proccess globally...Why are different religions focused on specific cultures, specific meaning ones culture geographically, economically and politically.

Does this mean one religion evolves in different surroundings? Their beliefs are based off of their culture, and their culture off their beliefs. But then why are the core ideas behind religions so vastly different from one another.

You cannot tell me a ;third power; is a global thing, nor local thing, because it is so heavily influenced by our cultures and societes. Such social 'norm's today have evolved from when religions writings were adopted, so you are saying 'god' has evovled to match our drug, fast food, telivison watching culture.

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6592008 - 02/20/07 11:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

So you are telling me, an unknown, no way to be proven 'power' is altering your mind/and its thought proccess




No, I'm asking you to consider the possibility. If you're truly as rational as you claim then you would not throw the possibility of God's existence out the window without first examining the matter yourself.

I forget exactly whose, but I came across this quote in a member's signature:

"It is the hallmark of the believer, not the skeptic, to discard a claim without viewing the evidence."

Furthermore, why do you think God does not exist?

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6592028 - 02/20/07 11:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

an unknown, no way to be proven 'power'




Couldn't you also classify the Big Bang Theory as being unprovable? Or evolution?

These ideas are neither reproducible nor are they observable, which from my recollection, violates the fundamental rules of science.

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6592053 - 02/20/07 11:24 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Evolution is not reproducable, but it is seen and illustrated through STRONG evidence. In so many ways it has been seen, simple things as the evolution of man, or the evolution of culture, or simple things like why zebra's have stripes?

Something like 'god' has no evidence behind it, at all.

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6592088 - 02/20/07 11:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

fundamental rules of science.


Science bases its predictions or conclusions off of evidence, strong ussually, but at least evidence.

An outer power, has no evidence surround it.

Please show me where god created adam and eve, or controls that you get hit by a car.

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6592120 - 02/20/07 11:37 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Something like 'god' has no evidence behind it, at all.




But what about Creationism?

Irreducible complexity? The Cambrian Explosion?

I would say those two examples that I just listed could be reasonably construed as evidence for Creationism.

Quote:

but it is seen and illustrated through STRONG evidence




What evidence?

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6592138 - 02/20/07 11:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

What evidence?


Zebra's have their strong stripes because over time horses without small ammount of stripes, and or any stripes were easily targeted via enemey. Over time 'Zebra' became what it is today because of its evolutionary need to adapt to survive.

Animals in which have very similar distinct features EG: house cat, from a bob cat, or a cougar. These animals one day were in fact the same, but over time evolved for the need to adapt to survive.

Dont even get me started on human evolution, and the strong evidence behind fossils ect.

The fear churches have from the idea of 'evolution' is outlandish, if i can dig a few articles up of major churches and religious groups enforcing the closing of musem displays of prehistoric fossils illustrating evolution ect.

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6592171 - 02/20/07 11:49 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Dont even get me started on human evolution, and the strong evidence behind fossils ect.




I'm familiar with the evidence for evolution myself, I'm just not willing to take your word for something without you supporting your claim.

Back to what I said earlier:

Quote:




But what about Creationism?

Irreducible complexity? The Cambrian Explosion?

I would say those two examples that I just listed could be reasonably construed as evidence for Creationism.




You make it seem that the evidence for Evolution is in abundance compared to that of Creationism. In reality, the battleground is level.

What do you think of the examples aforementioned?

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6592216 - 02/20/07 11:58 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I will do the same but will you look back at my ideas on how cluture and society influence ones thought, as well as then directly influencing that cultures idea of 'religion'?

The whole idea of religion is a waste of my time to argue with you now, the affects of culture and society affecting the creation of thousands of different religions and sects.

I my self first concluded upon Creationism when i was a younger kid, concluding how absurd it was that someone or something controlled outcomes and actions, i knew only i controlled these. I concluded hey maybe god created the neccessary things for evolution to begin?

There is nothing wrong with the ideas behind Creationism, but how do explain the current daily desires for prayer ect?

You are side tracking from the point im making in which religious practices occur, how can one truely believe right now god is a force in our world?

Granted over all Creationism is the only 'religous idea' in which is understandable, but it is understandable because rather than basing belief on facts(EG actions today) it is basing belief upon beliefs. It is 'believeable' because there is nothing to disbelieve. Where as science basis its conclusion upon evidence, even if it is minor.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6592218 - 02/20/07 11:59 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I'm one of those crazy stupid blokes that believes in an Uncaused Cause. But I'll attempt to illustrate...

I believe in God - I also believe the universe is approx. 13-14 billion years old and that bio-physically homosapiens are bipedal primates. When I read interesting blurbs in Discovery Magazine, I generally accept it as truth. I revere Albert Einstein as an expert in his field and for the most part accept all observations of the functionality of physical phenomena.

If you still feel I'm not "intelligent", I don't really want any part in your popularity contest.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineContinuum
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6592226 - 02/21/07 12:02 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

About the universe (creation, big bang, etc)... take a look at Stephen Hawkings theories about singularities and the possibility of multiple universes

the concepts are mindblowing... we cannot even begin to grasp how insignificant we really are

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