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Offlineinetiatic
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Registered: 02/20/07
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Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Being religious contradicts being intelligent?
    #6591507 - 02/20/07 09:45 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Can you truly be intelligent if you are religious?

The idea of how one is 'intelligent' is if you are able to achieve a high 'sat' score or 'good grades' or you know whats going on in the world. A large vocabulary, or any of societies typical branding of 'smart', does this truly make you 'intelligent'?

The simple ideas i stated above are all forms of memorization, none in which are ideas or thoughts which arise from analytical thought processes.

So by all of this, if you are religious, you really cant be truly 'intelligent'. Coming to analytical conclusions in our world BEGINS with questioning the most practiced idea in our world, religion.

Analytical concolsions and ideas show the true though proccess of someone, their ability to arrive to conclusions on their own, render and create their own ideas.

So how can one truly believe 'god' and also be 'intelliget'. Someone or something created our world, or that 'god' controls our fates or our 'luck' or 'health'? If you believe god controls our world tell me why.

Religion, drugs, anything in which people place their problems on is a form of a 'crutch' in which they cannot take the stress or reality of the real world, so numb their worries by praying to god to be healthy or blame their car accident on 'it was god's fate', or smoking that bowl so you can 'relax and enlighten your self' all are forms of a weak person.


So if you are religious, you are a weak person. Because you are unable to deal with stresses or problems in our world, and or believe in something so fucking silly.

Discuss.

Edited by inetiatic (02/20/07 10:13 PM)

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591588 - 02/20/07 10:01 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

How do you define intelligence. You said an SAT score, what does an SAT score have to do wit scoring in real life. Nothing.

Then what do you really equate intelligence to. I'd equate it to personnel prosperity, in which people have reached such goals with different belief sets. Besides religion is a routine, and everyone is indoctrinated to something whether they realize it or not.

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: capliberty]
    #6591608 - 02/20/07 10:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

everyone is indoctrinated to something whether they realize it or not




Amen to that.

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6591652 - 02/20/07 10:12 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I stated how i 'define' intelligence. The ability to reach conclusions on your own, question your surroundings, deeper ideas of how things are or how they became.

I also think you misread my writing, i stated the next paragraph about how those this are very artifical and meaningless.

Everyone IS indoctrinated to something, but is it wrong to attempt to break out of this? Question your self critically, constantly wondering your ideas contradict them selves.

Granted to not be indoctrinated to anything, is being indoctrinated.

But my topic is that being RELIGIOUS its self contradicts being truley intelligent. Not if you are indoctrinated in something, they are different things.

Edited by inetiatic (02/20/07 10:15 PM)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591680 - 02/20/07 10:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


in·tel·li·gence /ɪnˈtɛlɪd58;əns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-tel-i-juhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.




Now, how do you define being "religious"?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6591691 - 02/20/07 10:18 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

You believe in something 'created' our world 'something' controls what happens 'something' controls our future. Or even the 'something unexplainable'. Everything happens because it happens, not because its a set path or 'outside' control

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591724 - 02/20/07 10:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

inetiatic said:
Can you truly be intelligent if you are religious?



Absolutely. My grandfather is a theologian, and the most intelligent man I know.


--------------------

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OfflineContinuum
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591726 - 02/20/07 10:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

i've often wondered the same thing... how can a truly intelligent person not question such an unintelligible thing? even if countless people believe it?

then, I realized two of the smartest people I know are religious to some extent (nothing crazy)... trust me, they're probably "smarter" than you too, however you define smart.

Knowing these two so well, I decided believing in a deity involves more than just intelligence, or lack thereof. many factors are involved... we're human and will at times seek comfort over insight, if you will.

or perhaps they're somehow enlightened? I really don't know.... regardless, I'm still a hard agnostic

but generally, I would agree that evangelicals and other extremely religious people aren't very bright... or, if they are otherwise intelligent, then they're delusional and perhaps suffer from some degree of psychosis? there's gotta me some explanation lol

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591731 - 02/20/07 10:26 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not certain that your definition of being religious pertains to religion in general... perhaps the nature of a certain religion or aspects of certain religious behavior...

At any rate, there are numerous intelligent individuals who consider themselves to be practitioners of religion. Religion typically pertains to beliefs that address the nature of reality, its purpose or cause. While some religions might be institutionalized to a great extent, and a good portion of those who pratice these religions might not have the greatest capability to think or understand, or fully realize the nature of their beliefs and why they hold onto these beliefs, there are also a wide variety of individuals who reach their own conclusions about the nature of reality, for their own reasons, after careful consideration and skillful means of thought.

I'm inclined to suspect that practicing a religion, in and of itself, does not have any relevance to whether or not said individual is intelligent.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591736 - 02/20/07 10:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Religion, drugs, anything in which people place their problems on is a form of a 'crutch' in which they cannot take the stress or reality of the real world, so numb their worries by praying to god to be healthy or blame their car accident on 'it was god's fate', or smoking that bowl so you can 'relax and enlighten your self' all are forms of a weak person.





What would you suggest that religious folk do instead?

From the point of view of a religious faithful it is rational to pray to God during the case of a crisis.

Religious folk believe in their doctrines because they find those doctrines to be logical and evident. In a similar vein, religious folk do question their doctrines. I concede that the majority of religious faithfuls do not question their faith nor do they even consider the possible that they could be in error (one could figure this out simply by reading the Sam Harris quote in my signature). However, there are many "intelligent" individuals who do.

Consider C.S. Lewis, the epitome of Christian apologists. Lewis went from being a staunch Atheist to one of the most profound aficiandos of Christianity.

What compelled Lewis' change in worldview? Philosophical thought and discourse; honest inquiry. This man did not arrive at his Christian faith through blind faith nor did he simply turn to religion as some sort of lifesaver.

Not that I agree with Lewis, but I must grant him credit for questioning his faith.

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591768 - 02/20/07 10:33 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

SAT scores are without a doubt the best way to judge intelligence. I know this because I scored in the top 1% of the population, so clearly it must be true (circular reasoning- judging a test by the way I've scored highly on the test and using that as credentials leads to a closed system that may have no truth value).

Intelligence is a word used by people to manipulate other people. Usually the people they manipulate fall for it, so there is a system of success using the mental faculties and failure by conforming to someone else's ulterior motives, but this cannot be judged by any test other than experience. I scored an extremely high score on the SATs, so I could use this to manipulate other people and assert myself as correct on issues I have no clue about. This little trick is used by everyone from the government to corporations to the media. If you're well-spoken, make historical connections and present the issue in the right way, you're bound to gain power over others, although in most cases this doesn't help the development of humanity.

Religious people aren't stupid, but they are, in most cases, manipulated in a top-down system. They lower themselves by subscribing to the words of others, especially when, in the case of religion, those words cannot be backed up by studies, repetition or reliable evidence.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591800 - 02/20/07 10:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

By the way, my grandfather is a Christian and he has an IQ of 165. He's the farthest from unintelligent that you can get.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6591806 - 02/20/07 10:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

What about someone who has an IQ of 166? :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6591809 - 02/20/07 10:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
I'm inclined to suspect that practicing a religion, in and of itself, does not have any relevance to whether or not said individual is intelligent.




If you would actually READ my writing, im saying that the true meaning of being 'intelligent' is the ability to analyze, your surrounding how it became what it will become and why it is like it is. Analytically questioning society and culture, as well as ones self. Thus believing in something as farfetched as a 'belief' is almost hilarious, so one who truely is 'intelligent', im asking how THEY or YOU can believe in a 'god' or a power out of our control.

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OfflineContinuum
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: Ravus]
    #6591812 - 02/20/07 10:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SAT scores are without a doubt the best way to judge intelligence. I know this because I scored in the top 1% of the population, so clearly it must be true (circular reasoning- judging a test by the way I've scored highly on the test and using that as credentials leads to a closed system that may have no truth value).




I disagree here. Perhaps if you're defining intelligence as that which the SAT measures, verbal and quantificational aptitude, then fine... but even then there's a large part of that exam that exists in preparation.

The fact that good SAT prep courses command a price tag well over $1000 reflects this... nevermind the disparity between schools.

btw, I was a high scorer as well.

Concerning the rest of your post, I can reason with most -- if not all of it

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591842 - 02/20/07 10:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Again you three, contraz on being able to repeat information presented to you. You cant measure ones ability to be 'intelligent' by their 'knowledge'

I now have concluded i should have worded my question/topic better. People who 'score well on SAT or have a high IQ' may have nothing they have concluded by them selves. I know this is a generalization, and plenty of exceptions, but for a majority of our population(Majority being everyone who is religious)

You or your grandfather, may have a high IQ or good SAT scores, but im asking WHAT you see in religion, or how you believe there is a god, or outside 'power'

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: Continuum]
    #6591843 - 02/20/07 10:48 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

You might want to read his post again and contemplate whether or not he is making a subtle point. :wink:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6591864 - 02/20/07 10:51 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


I now have concluded i should have worded my question/topic better.




Yes, indeed.

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Offlineinetiatic
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6591872 - 02/20/07 10:52 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Rather than agreeing, care to share your ideas rather than making a pointless post.

How can your grandfather, or you, believe in something so out there, as an outside power or a 'god'?

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Being religious contradicts being intelligent? [Re: inetiatic]
    #6591886 - 02/20/07 10:55 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

inetiatic said:
How can your grandfather, or you, believe in something so out there, as an outside power or a 'god'?



Maybe because to some people, it's not so "out there." Some people do not simply swallow propaganda about God, but in fact feel the divine presence in their daily life.


--------------------

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