Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Faht's oven bag clone tek * 5
    #6590986 - 02/20/07 08:01 PM (17 years, 30 days ago)

JUMP TO Procedure and 1st Page Of Gallery <—- this also has the updated 2020 version where I don’t use H2o2 (It’s 1000x better)

JUMP TO 2nd Page Of Gallery

This tek is geared towards new growers that want to clone without agar... I have purposely made this post for the person that is starting with little more than a mushroom and some basic items found around the house... with the exception of a few things i guess.  pay particularly close attention to the lid construction section... a good lid design is key for this tek to go off successfully.  and you'll have a nice lid design for other grows too as an upside. :wink:

Now heres the basic idea. An oven bag (reynolds) is altered to account for air exchange after sealing. a small quarantine section is attached to the bag with one end covered with tin foil. a jar with hydrated whole grains is put into the bag and sealed. then the bag is pc'd and a small piece of clone  tissue is taken and put into the quarantine section along with 3 % H2O2 til all the air in the quarantine section is displaced. Then foil is sealed tightly over the quaran. section. the jar is unscrewed while still in the bag. then (THRU THE BAG, WITHOUT TEARING THE BAG) the bottom piece of foil is broken and the clone  piece and H2O2 flow into the bag where it is promptly moved into the open jar of grains. this is ALL done so far while the jar is still in the bag and the bag is sealed. it's very easy to move things around with your hands from outside the bag. then you can screw the lid back on. THEN and only then can you tear the bag and remove your grain jar with clone  tissue safely inside.

Heres a diagram of the first design I came up with... It's a little easier to understand and construct... I just didn't want to mess with the "extra" bag opening but it still works great... I have this a little later in the post, towards the end, but I thought a quick look would be more attractive to peeps wanting to try this method than my high tech quarantine section method... (the one thing that I did want to revise was the "shake vigorously" part at the end of that picture.  No need to shake; as long as that clone piece is touching a grain kernel, you're all good.  When you shake, you risk the clone piece ending up on the side of the glass... this is not good.  It NEEDS to be physically inside the grain to grow.  I know this seems obvious, but I've had some complaints about it. #facepalm)



heres an actual pic of someones bag from over at 'topia... Joey_megabucks to be extact...



now on with the show. :smile:

heres the grain prep I do:

NOWADAYS I just use simmered rye instead of corn.. I just already usually have prepared rye left over from making qts.. it does dry out faster but I just fill the jars a little more than if I were using corn.. works fine

Popcorn  prep. - First, put your corn in the pc without your jar rack (the plate the pc comes with to keep the jars off the bottom of the pc.) and cover with at least three inches of water.
you can probably go a little less once you get the hang of how much the dry kernels will absorb. on average the kernel will expand 3 times it's size.  (If you don't want to PC a whole shitload of corn, you can just put a cup or so of dry kernel popcorn into a quart jar filled with water and PC that for an hour, works just as well.)
Now pc at 15 psi for 1 hour. after an hour, turn off the pc and left the pressure adjust back to zero... once the safety nob drops, you can unscrew the lid. be very careful.. the pc will still be very hot. don't let the steam get ya in the face.
Now pour the corn into a strainer. I rinse off the corn with hot water first. the kernels will have lots of starch on them.. if you rinse with cold water first the starch will coegulate making it a bitch to get off. rinsing is a very important part of the process... you want to get the kernels as free from starch as possible. once you've rinsed with hot water... rinse with cold. this will cool the kernels down making them easier to handle and also 'tighten' the kernel up making it not so mooshy.
once rinsed, i let the corn sit for a few minutes to drain. Next i lay down a piece of paper towel and lay the corn on top of that in a single kernel layer. then i place another piece of paper towel on top of the corn layer and roll my hands lightly over the corn.


ok, now heres how you do it.
first the bag prep.

1. here are the items you need to acquire
- an oven bag large kind... comes 5 to a box
- scissors
- jelly jar with lid (i'll show you how to make a kickass lid in a bit)
- hydrated grain... i use Popcorn  for these 'Master' jars.
- Three pieces of 2 in. 3/4 Dia. tubing (two stuffed with polyfil)
- small cable ties (make sure they are a 4 or above plastic rating)
- two 2 in square pieces of foil





here are the three tubes up close... the two with polyfil  are going to be used for the air exchange in the corners of the bag. This assures that the bag doesn't pop in the pc. since the bag is sealed shut, there needs to be some way for the pressure to even out. the clear one is what we are going to be using for the 'quarantine section'. thise quarantine section is how we are getting the clone  tissue from outside of the bag to inside of the bag without contaminating the contents of the bag.





2. Now cut both corners of your oven bag like so:




3. Take one polyfil  tube for each corner and attach it to the bag via cable ties. you can probably get away with using tape if you want, but for ME, this is where i don't skimp on my sterile tek.... when i'm getting my 'masters'. I use two cable ties per bag attachment. there is a small gap, even when you tighten the cable tie as tight as you possible can, where the head of the tie and the tail of the tie meet. so i use two where the 'heads' of the ties are opposite of each other like so:




4. like i said, i don't take chances with these... i'm afraid the leftover part of the zip tie is giong to poke a hole in the bag so i cut them and fold a little piece of duct tape over the cut ends... nice and soft then.




5. Now we're going to make the quarantine section. heres about where you place this QS (from here on out i'll refer to the quarantine section as QS) on the bag compared to the air vents... make sure it's in the bottom half of the bag.





5b. place the tubing in the middle of the 2 in square foil piece. carefully bend the foil up on the tube. make sure the foil goes all the way up at least half way. you are going to attach the QS to the bag with cable ties much like air vents so you have to make sure that both the bag and foil are covered by the two cable ties all the way around.






this bottom piece of foil is what we're going to break to allow the clone  piece and H2O2 to flow into the bag.




6. cut a hole the size of the tubing in the bag and attach the QS... notice how the bag and foil are both covered by the two zip ties... this creates a sterile seal between the tube, the foil, and the bag... so if something wants out of the bag it has to go thru the opening, the air vents, or this new tube (which is blocked off by foil)







heres the QS with the tie tails cut and taped...




7. now use your other piece of 2 in square foil to cover the QS... BUT, keep the cable tie just tight enough to keep the foil cap on... you are going to need to take this off after you pc but you don't want it falling off before you need it to come off letting contam'd air inside you QS.




heres the bag with everything attached...




8. Making your kickass jar lid.  http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6886717/an/0/page/0  <---- that is a link to detailed steps on making this lid... (for now, I'll just give ya the quick version)  I happen to think that the lid you use is one of if not the most important tool you use.. so it's nice to have a really safe design... and i feel i have one. first you need to bend that inner edge that cuts thru everyones tyvek  when they tighten the jar too much. all you do is flip the band over and crimp it down all the way around until it's flush... it really doesn't take much...




Now that you have a safe band, you can make the rest of your lid... I use both postal tyvek  and kite makers tyvek... one postal on top, a layer of kite makers, and a postal layer on the bottom. just screw your band on these three layers tightly. then one strip of duct tape down the middle. the remaining sections are the selfhealing port and the air exchange side. the air exchange side is covered up about 90 % while the master jars are colonizing... after they are about 95 % colonized, the air exchange sides are uncovered and the grain and myc. are allowed to dry. the reason i uncover at 95 % is so that the myc. doesn't go into Pinning  phase by the time it drys out. keeps the myc. nice and 'young'. cut off all but about 1/8 in of the extra tyvek  hanging off the side. now bend that up and tape it to the band. this makes it nice and easy to screw the lid on and off... you don't have tyvek  getting in yer way.




put about a 1/4 in of aquarium silicon on the other side of the tape and smooth out with wetnap. this is your self-healing injection port.
now this is where the magic happens for these lids... flip the lid over and put another layer of aquarium silicon on the exact spot it is on the top layer of tyvek.. let dry.

when you look at the pic, you will see that there is a gap between the bottom silicon and the edge of the inside band... this is for the jar rim. make sure you leave that gap silicon free otherwise you might not get a tight seal when you screw the lid on.

now for anything to get thru your lid to your very precious sterilized grain, it has to not only go thru one layer of tyvek  w/self heal port and one layer of kite tyvek , but it also has to get thru ANOTHER layer of tyvek  with self healing port. these lids are the shit and would not use anything else for my masters. I can pull myc. from these jars to start more jars just like it and keep that first master on a shelf to dry out and use months and months later without the worry of them getting contam'd.. unless my syringe tek is flawed (which it isn't ). now remember these are jelly jars not 1/2 pints... 1/2 pints will probably work but i like the smaller jars for masters.




heres the jar with just about a 1/2 in. worth of grain (popcorn) in the bottom... this is what you are cloning  to.




9. now put the jar with the lid screwed on loosely inside the bag all the way to the bottom.




10. pinch the bag about 2 in. above the QS and twist tightly like so:






11. now while still keeping the twist tight, fold the twist back on itself a couple times and zip tie the middle of the folds as tight as you can (it should be noted that all zip ties, except the QS foil cover prior to pc'ing, should be pulled as tight as possible.) this makes sure that NOTHING is getting in or out thru the oven bag opening anymore. just make sure the grain jar is in the bag first. lol







12. now you can gently squeeze the bag to get excess air out thru the air vents. fold up the air vents making sure they aren't blocked in any way and you have a nice little ball... this is what i like to call a "cloning  Machine" it's got a nice ring to it.




13. now take a 1.5 ft. x 1.5 ft. sheet of foil and put the cloning  machine in the middle. now bring up each corner to the middle over the bag. then just put a piece of foil over the top to keep dripping water out..










now just pc this for 45 min. at 15 psi. and let cool. i usually use a few 1/2 jars to keep the 'foilball' out of the water and off the bottom.

ok... that was making the 'cloning  machine'... it seems like a lot, but when you get it down it takes about 10 min. tops to prepare the bag... minus the lid prep and grain prep. and pc times of course.



fahtster

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster]
    #6592081 - 02/20/07 11:28 PM (17 years, 30 days ago)

UPDATE 2020: So after doing this many many times over the years, I’ve had my share of run ins with bacteria (mold just isn’t an issue whatsoever—probably because of the H2o2 being so harmful to its spores but certain bacteria can be pretty resilient) and know that it comes from the H2o2 so I’ve always tried to think of a way to move away from it...

Well I’ve finally come up with a way and it’s really simple... sterile water.  The procedure below is the original method using H2o2 and everything about the bag set up is the same but with the following adjustments:

1. When I put the 4oz grain jar into the oven bag, I also put 2 additional jars of water.. the amount of water isn’t that important.. I usually fill about half way.  I also put inside the bag a small tweezers (I just wrap it in foil)  Seal the bag up and pc for 1.5 hours @~18psi (I use the three quarters taped to the rocker weight trick—don’t forget to vent for 10-15 minutes before putting the weight on)

2. Have a 10ml syringe of sterile water ready when you’re doing the cloning

3. When I cut the clone tissue out from the stem, I transfer it directly to the quarantine section (remove the foil over the opening right before the transfer to help keep the inside of the QS sterile).  Replace foil

4. I immediately flame the needle on the syringe of sterile water and squeeze a little out to cool the needle

5. Lift the foil covering the QS (with clone tissue inside) just enough to get the tip of the needle inside and inject water into the QS so that’s it fills the QS up completely (so that water comes spilling out) and seal it back up with the foil.. the idea is just like with the H2o2.. you want to displace all the air inside the QS

6. Break the foil on the other side of the QS with a blunt object (just like in the original instructions) but break it just enough so that the water comes out but the clone tissue stays in the QS.. let the water spill out into the inside of the oven bag.

7. Break the foil the rest of the way and drop the tissue into one of the jars of water inside the oven bag

8. Take the tweezers out from it’s foil pouch (inside the bag) and grab the tissue in the jar of water and swish it around a bunch

9. Take the tissue and remove it from the 1st jar of water and drop it into the 2nd jar of water

10. Take the tweezers and grab onto the tissue again and swish it around in the 2nd jar of water.

11. Finally, take the tissue out of the 2nd jar of water and drop it into the grain jar and tighten the lid back on

Basically, we’re doing a sequential rinse of the clone tissue in sterile water.. first in the QS, then in the 1st jar of water, then in the 2nd jar of water before it ends up in the grain jar.  It’s just to rinse off anything that may have landed in it while you were acquiring the tissue from the stem before it goes into the QS attached to the oven bag.  It works sooooo mich better than using H2o2 because the water gets sterilized and doesn’t harm your clone tissue like H2o2 does. :thumbup:

Original procedure:
ok, now for the actual cloning  procedure.
heres what you need:

- 3% H2O2
- 70% rubbing alcohol
- cloning  machine
- tissue specimen
- small dish
- tweezers
- paper towel soaked with alcohol
- a couple cable ties
- 2 in. square tin foil

1. take your cloning  machine out of the pc and unwrap. get rest of materials ready




make sure you clean your small dish with alcohol and let dry before you pour your H2O2 into the dish.. fill dish about half way with the H2O2. flame sterilize your tweezers til red hot and stick straight into the H2O2 slowly. And leave in the H2O2 until you need it.

2. Now take your tissue specimen and pop the cap off. starting at the top of the stem... pull the stem apart in half. this keeps you from introducing contams that are on the outside of the stem.

3. retrieve your tweezers from the H2O2 and pick a piece out of the middle of the lower stem... I don't even use a knife to cut the chunk, just pinch a nice chunk using the end of the tweezers... works fine. and one less factor for contam's.



UPDATE: you can totally skip steps 4 through 6 and go straight to #7... really no need to presoak in the H2o2

4. Now put the tissue in the H2O2 and swoosh around with tweezers.



5. The 3% H2O2 is strong enough to sterilize the tissue but also weak enough that you don't need to rinse it after putting it in the H2O2. I use the tweezers to hold the tissue submerged in the H2O2 while i work on the next steps.



6. With the tissue soaking i remove the loosely zip tied foil cover on the QS.



7. Now take your tissue with your tweezers and put it in the empty QS.



8. Take H2O2 and fill the inside of the QS (the tissue is also inside this chamber) to the brim... the idea is to displace all the air inside the chamber so that there is only H2O2 and the clone  tissue present.



heres the chamber filled to the brim with H2O2 and tissue.



9. Take a look at the first pic in #3... see that foil that has the alcohol soaked paper towel on it? that is the top lid to your QS. I keep the paper towel on it to keep it sterile while do all the steps leading up to using it. Take this piece of foil and put it over the top of the QS that is filled to the brim with H2O2/tissue. zip tie this lid on TIGHT this time... you don't want it to leak ideally.



10. Now with your tissue safely secure in your QS, you can unscrew the lid on your grain jar inside the bag. DO NOT REMOVE THE JAR FROM THE BAG. Unscrew carefully with your hands from outside the bag... it's not that difficult actually... the bag is very workable.



11. ok, from the time you unscrew the lid to the time that the tissue is inside the jar should only take a minute at the most... it's very quick. After you unscrew the lid, take the back end (which is blunt) of the tweezers or something similar and (thru the bag) break the bottom piece of foil on your QS. it's very important that your don't tear the bag at all. it's just a piece of tin foil so it's not very hard to break.



notice the little white blob in the middle of the bag... thats the clone  tissue now safely inside the bag... up in the top right corner of the bag you can see the broken piece of foil on the bottom of the QS.



12. Now quickly move the clone  tissue into the grain jar and screw the lid back on... once the lid is back on, THEN you can tear open the bag and retrieve your grain jar with the tissue inside.



don't forget to tape up the air exchange section on your lid about 90 % so that your grain doesn't dry out before your clone  tissue has a chance to colonize it. be sure to remove it at about 95 % colonization as well.

I have done this tek more than 15 times (edit: As of 2019, I’ve probably done it 60+). I would do this over even using a flowhood  as there is no air movement at all. I have done both fruit tissue tranfers and myc. transfers from PF  cakes. both have worked great. I would suggest the fruit tissue over the PF  cake of course cuz then you know you have a fruiting substrain.
heres the last nine cloning  machines i've done...



Once you have the colonized grain jar, you can let it dry out or use it right away.. i usually do either 6 qts. or 24 1/2 pints with the myc. that i harvest from each grain jar. i just break the kernels up, then shoot up with water from sterile syringe... shake the water and myc. covered kernels around until most is broken up into the water. then i suck the water back up. If i'm noccin' up qts i just go straight from there to the qts. but if i'm doing the 24 cakes i make another transfer to another sterilized jelly jar (with same lid design) filled with the amount of water that it takes to innoc. 24 1/2 pints. (about 30ml.) then i pull from that jar to refill my inoculation syringe.










AND actually, I figured out something very cool not too long ago.. if you let one of the 'faht jars' that is colonized dry out, you can just do the same prodecure... break up kernels, inject sterile water thru double sided self-healing port, shake kernels around to knock brittle myc into the water, and retrieve the water.  THEN you can add about 6 ml of new sterile water to the dry kernels (now wet on the outside from retrieving myc.) and they will reabsorb the water and the myc will start colonizing the now water inflated kernels once again for another round. :smile:!!!!

UPDATE: I have done this tek waaay more than 15 since writing it and I will say that, while using the jelly grain jars more than once has worked, it has failed enough times that I would recommend only using the grain once.. it’s pretty easy to just make a new grain jar when you make your quarts for spawn.. no reason to try going for more extractions.  Mold isn’t a problem, but bacteria finds its way into the reused jars more often than it’s really worth.. especially because this tek calls for syringes with SHIP’s.  BUT I will say that you can/should take those 4oz jars of grains you used for glc and A. Leave the tape off the filter side of the lid so that the grains can dry up a bit from the leftover water from your extraction and then replace the tape and they’ll start recolonizing and B. Spawn them to 1.5 times the amount of CV in a 1/2 pint.  This will give you a good idea of how the tub is going to perform.  Examples:


 

You could probably even spawn them directly after getting the GLC from them but I like the idea of letting them dry a bit first and start recovering.. I use a 1/4” cv top layer on the jars (except PE—those I use the thick peat casing) on the 1/2 pints and then cover with press n seal with a 1/16” hole (needle hole) poked in the center... once they’re colonized, I put in a large ziplock on top of some wet perlite to fruit.  Doesn’t have to be a 1/2 pint either.. any small container works like this small glad container



The other neat thing about the 4oz grain jars is that even if you do end up with one that’s obviously bacterial, you can simply top fruit it once fully colonized (assuming it gets to that point) by adding a 1/2” layer of CV to that you soak (to fully hydrate the grains below) and cover with press n seal with a needle hole poked in the center while it colonizes the top layer... then I place those in a ziplock with wet perlite to fruit.. once you get a fruit, you can reclone or grab a print to save the culture




the only time this has not worked is when i tried transfering myc. from a contaminated cake. there was some mold myc. present in the transfer (H2O2 will kill spores but not myc.) so it went south... but other than that i have had 100% success with this. i've even cleaned up old faht jars that i didn't know if the lid had been breeched... just ran a couple dry kernels thru a cloning  machine and vola.


heres the bin that used to get clones.. all but one are multispored jelly jars of Haw, TC, GT, Chitwan, Koh Sui and costa rica (which turned out to be a lame tired strain  that only put out cottony myc. and a couple very small fruits.




And heres a pic of some GT multispore  on jelly jars that i'm really excited to start a couple bins of soon.



I actually did do a bin of these GT's... this is what they looked like...




heres 2nd flush...




if done right... this tek is, imo, 99.9 % effective when a fruit tissue is used. there not a single speck of doubt in my mind after i do this tek that that grain jar is going to go south... none. sure you can probably pretty safely do a transfer by opening the jar in a semi sterile room and 4 out of 5 jars are going to work great... but it's not knowing where that one jar is that really gets my goat. lol so thats why i developed this tek. i'm tired of losing jars.

Another thing i was thinkin is that the new fly paper tek could be of use here also... if you don't want to do whole grains, you can just stick some fly paper on the bottom of the jar with a piece of glass to help break the myc. off the sticky paper.  cardboard would probably work in much the same way also. I'm stickin with the grains, but it may be useful to some folks.

heres my oven bag tek how I used to do it before I put the Quarantine section in it... still works good... I just got sick of dealing with the "extra" bag opening... great for beginners tho. :smile: you can pretty much just follow the graph... same basic idea.  Displacing the air in the Q.S. with H2O2 and carefully cutting the bottom cable tie..  heres the actual post, slightly modified for you guys over here. :smile:

Quote:

ok here is a tek i've been using as of lately.. it's basically using the faht jars for cloning, but instead of a glovebox , you are using an oven bag. i can't take pics at the moment so i just drew a diagram...
1.) put a 'faht jar' in an oven bag and zip tie leaving a good portion of the rest of the bag for the 'quarantine' section. I forgot to put it in the diagram, but you need some kind of air escape in the part of the bag that the jar is in or the bag will pop in the pc. i use 5/8 in. tubing stuffed with polyfil  thats zip tied to the bag. I actually put one in each corner of the bag just in case. now pc this at 15 psi for 35 min.
2.) once cooled.. take out of pc and get your cloning  tissue ready. Take an inner piece of tissue and sterilize in H2O2 3%with a sterile tweezers until it stops 'fizzing'. now take the tissue and put it in the top part of the oven bag right on top of the zip tie. Pour a generous amount of H2O2 3% over the tissue in the top of the bag. then squeeze out any extra air and zip tie that off. massage the tissue around in the 'quarantine' section for a minute or two.
3.) Now unscrew the jar lid using your hands thru the bag.. DO NOT OPEN THE BAG AT ANY TIME. the bag is easy to manuever from the outside.
4.) now CAREFULLY (so you don't cut the oven bag) cut the first zip tie so that the H2O2 and tissue 'flow' into the main part of the bag that the jar is in.
5.) while the bag is still closed, use your hands to maneuver the tissue into the jar (it's actually quite easy). Now screw the lid back on and tighten. again, while it's still in the bag.
6.) NOW you can remove the jar... shake the hell out it and it will be colonized in 4 days. then i just break it up, inject with water, shake it around, and suck up the myc. water to be used as innoc. heres the diagram....


(DONT FORGET TO PUT A TUBE WITH POLYFIL IN THE CORNER OF THE BAG OR IT WILL BURST IN THE PC) :smile:

fahtster




heres a few of bins of clones that were gotten with this tek...

Hillbilly's first flush



2nd Flush Hillbill's


Hillbilly bulk grow (three bins total)
   

     

2nd flush from two of those bins..
 

PF Redspore first flush





PE's first flush


PE 16qt Bins
 
  .
   
.
.
 



—>


The above bins in earlier stages

. .
.  
  .
. .
. .

2nd flush

. .
.

Glad container PE testers



HERES A LINK to the casing strategy by member, Tedsdead I used for the 16qt PE tubs

AA+ mini mono
.

2nd flush

.

MAZ (2019)
. . .
  .

2nd flush

. .

SA's 2nd flush (first wasn't all that great for some reason???)




SA's Bulk (Three 54 qt tubs)
     
   

Culture of PEU I almost gave up on because it took over a month to pin... needless to say I trashed it

.

Page 2 of GALLERY

:smile:

fahtster

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGrogan
Shroomieologist
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/20/03
Posts: 1,146
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster]
    #6592132 - 02/20/07 11:41 PM (17 years, 30 days ago)

Man your the Cake master... Have a tek for that??

Whats the dry weight of a flush from one of those tubs?? and how many cakes??

I will bookmark your tek for later reference.. was so amazed by the pics havent read yet!!


--------------------
"Maybe a cow occasionally ate a shroom, but it certainly wouldn't be such a potent shroom that the cow would be trippin balls. " LOL

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: Grogan]
    #6592247 - 02/21/07 12:06 AM (17 years, 30 days ago)

thanks yo. :smile:  as for the cakes... no special ingredients in the cake.. I do use an inner rez that is added when i make the cakes right before i  add the verm rez on top.  the real secret is in the isolation of a substrain and water.  mushies are 90% ish water... if you want a lot of mushies, you need a lot of water.  a cake is not going to commit suicide by give all it's water to the fruits.. whats the point in living then?  it needs to have a reserve for fruit production.  thats why cakes dunked prior to first flush do really good.  they have plenty of water... but it's kind of a touchy line... too much water and they good south.. but really... you can water a cake as much as you want as long as you give it equal amount of fresh air.  more water = more fresh air... more fresh air = more water.  play around with water saturation.  I also keep my cakes upside down to how everyone else does it..  mine look in the bin just like they do in the jar... the verm barrier on top.. the end with the verm barrier is kind of still open to water intake easily as it's not fully colonized like the bottom (the bottom meaning the bottom as it is in the jar) of the cake is... this kind of 'caps' the bottom off so that gravity doesn't drain your cake over time basically.  some will be lost but not like the other non-capped end. :smile:  this is what i do: birth the cakes, dunk them in water for a minute to hydrate the inner rez and verm barrier (which i left on btw... why remove a perfectly sterile-already attached casing layer?) now i place the cake in a drenched pile of verm on foil (drenched to reduce water loss from the bottom) then put a heaping pile of verm on top of the already wet verm.. so there is about a 1.5 inch casing layer on the top... now I drench that too.  this is basically acting as a prefirst flush dunk (but more controlled) as the water seeps into the cake via gravity hydrating it.  those cakes are double stacked 1/2 pints... just put one on top of the other but make sure you put a piece of foil in between or gravity will pull the water from the top cake into the bottom cake, water logging the bottom cake and drying out the top cake make both perform poorly.  Then at the three day mark, I once again drench the top casing layer BUT ONLY ON THE TOP CAKE of the double stacked 'towers'... the bottom cake doesn't need further hydration after the initial one.  It's capped off by the top and close to the perlite so very little water is lost due to evaporation.  but the top cake is raised above the perlite and subject to more evaporation.  giving FAE twice a day of course also.  your cakes should feel as heavy as a baseball all thru the fruiting cycle.  so, flip your cakes over and give it lots of water and FAE and isolate a substrain... thats it.

one 24 1/2 pint cake tub usually get between 4.5-5 oz's dry on the first flush and about half to 3/4 that on the second... i don't even try for a third... just have new cakes ready by then. :smile:

Oh yeah: USE MEDIUM GRADE VERMICULITE IN YOUR CAKE RECIPE. (but make sure you still use fine grade in your verm air barrier.)

Fahtster

Edited by fahtster (02/21/07 12:08 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinexhooliganx
Munky
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
Loc: reno, nevada
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster]
    #6592343 - 02/21/07 12:34 AM (17 years, 30 days ago)

well that's quite ingenious. nice work on the open air cloning device.


--------------------

Edited by xhooliganx (02/21/07 01:48 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOptx
PronouncedAwp-Tiks
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 977
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: xhooliganx]
    #6592401 - 02/21/07 01:01 AM (17 years, 30 days ago)

what the heck is this "rez" you keep talking about? and why not just do casings instead of cakes?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: Optx]
    #6592834 - 02/21/07 06:21 AM (17 years, 30 days ago)

thanks. :smile:  the rez is just a column of plain dry fine grade verm down the center of the cake... about the size of a nickel. it's made by putting a sharpie down the thru the center of the cake media and wiggling it a bit when i make the cake.  the sharpie is removed and dry verm is lightly packed into the column.  it acts as a reservoir (rez) and as an extension of the verm casing on top essentially.  water uses this column to 'wick' down the entire length of the cake making for a more even and quicker h2o distribution. 

I do do casings also... cakes are far too reliable for me to not do them.  it's not the media you use, it's how you use it.  kind of like the old saying for music goes... it's not what you play, it's how you play it.  but heres one example of why, if i lose a cake jar to a contamination, you can just repressure cook it and reinoc. with a viable culture; as long as you catch it fairly quickly... like at the first signs of green... repressure cook.  might also do that with grains... never tried it actually, haven't had to yet, but in theory, it should work fine.  heres is a pic of a bin where all the cakes in it at one time had trich growing and sporulating at every inoc. site in the cake but i repressure cooked and reinoc'd and thats what i got.  not too shabby for contam'ed jars. :wink:



fahtster

Edited by fahtster (10/14/12 08:06 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRogerRabbitM
Bans for Pleasure
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 29 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster] * 1
    #6593085 - 02/21/07 08:51 AM (17 years, 30 days ago)

Nice stuff faht.  It kinda makes me wonder where all the 'cakes are for kids' flamers disappeared to. :laugh:  I doubt seriously that a bulk bin or monotub that size would produce as much.  There's just so much more surface area available on the cakes to fruit from.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlutjager
Inhuman
Male

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6594054 - 02/21/07 02:56 PM (17 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Nice stuff faht.  It kinda makes me wonder where all the 'cakes are for kids' flamers disappeared to. :laugh:  I doubt seriously that a bulk bin or monotub that size would produce as much.  There's just so much more surface area available on the cakes to fruit from.
RR




I am right here and just as I did last time I seen one of Faht's cake grows I will be the 1st one to say that is amazing and if everyone grew cakes like that it would be fantastic

The problem is that people who are doing cakes are doing them most of the time because they are new to the hobby have been misled to think that they are easy,and worth their time and effort and unfortunately they are not

I do not know of Faht's cultivation history but its pretty obvious that he sure as hell knows what he is doing,I bet you could grow some amazing cakes as well if you wanted to RR,neither one of you is your average newb with no pressure cooker sitting there making flour with a coffee grinder

I actually book marked this tek for future reference and I don't have a bad thing to say about it,but the average person starting out and making cakes is not going to have the know how or the kick ass isolates to make this happen and to advertise this as is its something that they are going to get is crueler than telling them cakes are worth the trouble in the 1st place

Its reminds me of before and after diet pill commercials that legally have to come with the disclaimer "Results not typical" so as not to be downright misleading,too bad there is no disclaimer here

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: Blutjager]
    #6594591 - 02/21/07 05:10 PM (17 years, 30 days ago)

well... thank you. :smile:  but that is the very reason i put these pages up and put as much info as possible.  this is step by step with nothing excluded.  well almost nothing... i'll post the grain prep.  which is pretty easy.  I do suggest a pressure cooker.  but if you are serious about this hobby, you're going to want to pick one up eventually anyhow.  And i'm not sure how grain spawn bulk is any easier than steaming cakes... usually people that fail at cakes, aren't giving them enough water.  thats it.  I don't see how multispore bulk grows are any more advantageous than multispore cakes either.  Can you (in a non-evasive tone) please link me to some examples of noobs successfully doing bulk grows their first time?  I think bulk is more likely to go bad, thats mostly why I do cakes... so reliable.  as far as results not typical... I think bulk grows should very well have the same warning.  but I tell you what... you do exactly what I say above and they ARE going to be typical.  plain and simple... if you decide not to heed my advice, thats your fault based on your own ignorance.  my posts are directed at noobs.  sure you need a PC, but THATS IT.  everything else can be gotten cheaply and at two stores... hardware store and grocery store (assuming you have the spores already)  You don't need agar or a flowhood or even a freakin glovebox to get results like that... you just need some crafty engineering of the tools that you have available.  You want a kickass isolate?  ...there you go ^^^^  you want a well performing substrate? ...there you go ^^^^  you don't want to make cakes on that scale but want the performance?  just scale everything down... smaller bin, less perlite, less cakes, etc.  I just want everyone to stop complaining about cakes and blaming their inability to fruit them well on the tek itself. :smile:

Is there anything about my posts above that you do not understand or get?  because I would love to explain til the end of time until everyone understands clearly.  I love the feedback, it enables me to get an idea of how my audience interprets my information.  thanks. :smile:

fahtster

Edited by fahtster (02/21/07 05:19 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster]
    #6598601 - 02/22/07 05:48 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

there we go... all pics are now uploaded to the shroomery.  :smile:  promise I won't delete them this time. :wink:

fahtster

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offline2FiNiTe
ConsideratlyKilling Me
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 1,635
Loc: New England
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster]
    #6598616 - 02/22/07 05:51 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

brilliant!:mushroom2::mushroom2:


--------------------
"Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war that we know about peace, more about killing that we know about living."

General Omar N. Bradley

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHelltick
Player
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster]
    #6598650 - 02/22/07 05:58 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

When you say you can let the grains dry out...does this mean you can let dry and treat as a print..then say a year down the road, inject sterile water into the dry grain...suck it back up and have a viable inoculate?

I'll be using rye BTW.
Thx.


--------------------
  My Agar Tek. 
  My Greenhouse Tek. 

"It's not good when it's done, it's done when it's good"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: Helltick]
    #6598764 - 02/22/07 06:21 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

yeppers... you can reanimate myc.  THEN you can put new sterile water in with the dry kernels after you 'harvest' the myc. and the kernels will reabsorb the water and start colonizing the grain again and you can do it all over again! :smile:  I would suggest popcorn tho... rye is too slow... they will tend to dry out before the grain gets fully colonized and won't reabsorb the water the second time like a burst kernel of corn will.  this is the only thing that I use popcorn for anymore.  just these jelly jar masters that last for a really long time... what I do is make like 7 'faht jars' of a single isolate and use the 6 for whatever cultivation and let that one sit dried out until i need more master jars (which is awhile) then I make 7 more with that one left over from the first time and keep going like that. :smile:

but yeah, I seriously urge you to use popcorn... rye will work but just not as good. :wink:


fahtster

Edited by fahtster (02/22/07 06:27 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHelltick
Player
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster]
    #6598820 - 02/22/07 06:30 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

Okay thanks...never used popcorn before.
I have everything for your bag tek...still a bit confused but i'll re-read your post before asking any questions.

except this one...does microwave popcorn work?
Thx.


--------------------
  My Agar Tek. 
  My Greenhouse Tek. 

"It's not good when it's done, it's done when it's good"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: Helltick]
    #6598877 - 02/22/07 06:39 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

I think as long as it's not buttered or anything weird... lol check out that handdrawn graph... thats the basic idea of it.  basically making a transfer section to get the inner tissue of your specimen from the outside nonsterile air to the inside of the bag which is sterile without introducing any outside air (thats why we displace all the air in the transfer section with H2O2) where you can then just open the jar while inside the bag and plop the tissue in.  rescrew the lid back on the jar and then remove the jar from the sealed bag.. I should also say that all the polyfilled tubes can be reused over and over.  they will turn greyish after the first pc instead of clear but thats no problem at all.  just follow my popcorn prep. to the T.  but if you just want to make a small amount of popcorn just put a 1/2 cup. in a quart jar and fill the qt to 2 inches below the opening to the jar with water (so about 5 inches above the corn in the bottom of the qt. jar).  put in the pc for an hour at 15 psi.  retrieve, rinse and dry and it's ready to be loaded in the 'faht jar'.... super easy yo. :smile:

fahtster

Edited by fahtster (02/22/07 06:44 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHelltick
Player
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: Helltick]
    #6598919 - 02/22/07 06:46 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Popcorn prep. - First, put your corn in the pc without your jar rack (the plate the pc comes with to keep the jars off the bottom of the pc.) and cover with at least three inches of water.
you can probably go a little less once you get the hang of how much the dry kernels will absorb. on average the kernel will expand 3 times it's size.
Now pc at 15 psi for 1 hour




Heres is where i'm confused...with rye i soak in a pot for 24 hrs rinse and drain..load jars and PC.

Are you saying to just add popcorn in the pc without any jars?

I get everything else except this step.
Thx.


--------------------
  My Agar Tek. 
  My Greenhouse Tek. 

"It's not good when it's done, it's done when it's good"

Edited by Helltick (02/22/07 06:49 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHelltick
Player
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Deep...
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: Helltick]
    #6598944 - 02/22/07 06:50 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

but if you just want to make a small amount of popcorn just put a 1/2 cup. in a quart jar and fill the qt to 2 inches below the opening to the jar with water (so about 5 inches above the corn in the bottom of the qt. jar). put in the pc for an hour at 15 psi.




There it is...
Thx.


--------------------
  My Agar Tek. 
  My Greenhouse Tek. 

"It's not good when it's done, it's done when it's good"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: Helltick]
    #6599003 - 02/22/07 07:00 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

awesome! glad you're giving it a whirl. :smile:  be sure to report back on how easy/hard it was... if it worked, that sort of thing.  thanks!

fahtster

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblefahtsterM
Now With 33%More Faht
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,306
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Faht's oven bag clone tek [Re: fahtster]
    #6599079 - 02/22/07 07:15 PM (17 years, 29 days ago)

one more quick thing about the drying of the faht jar... if you plan on doing it, make sure you have a lid that is going to allow you to control filter size, i.e., my lids above have about 40% to 100% controllability (I can tape up the tyvek as much as I want) if you have a lid with these that only have a small filter port on it, the kernels won't dry out fast enough and you may get small mushrooms that fruit and sporulate inside the jar ruining your isolate...

like happened here with a 1/2 pint 'faht jar' that I used the same way as these more advance (as far as the life of the tek goes) jelly jars... the print is faint but is on the inside of the jar right next to the mushroom you can see.  there were two fruits that the jar made.. the unopened one you can see and a mature opened cap one you can't



but on the good side of things... I successfully propogated and retrieved spores that were sterile (I don't mean sterile as in dead, I mean not possibly dirty) from the moment they existed. :smile:

fahtster

Edited by fahtster (02/23/07 10:00 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates


Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
40,647 topic views. 23 members, 140 guests and 30 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.044 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 15 queries.