Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | Next >
Offlinefivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6598184 - 02/22/07 04:38 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vigilant_mind said:
Quote:

Also God did not see fit to preserve them by providence and keep them in His Word. God's Word is always preserved.





And you know this how?




By the scriptures and nature of God. God is in charge of every event, every hair on a head. The notion that God can not preserve His Word is really saying God is not in omnipotent and can be frustrated by men. This "God" does not exist in scripture.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevigilant_mind
unfazed
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fivepointer]
    #6598199 - 02/22/07 04:41 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Also God did not see fit to preserve them by providence and keep them in His Word




Who are you to decide that "God" did not want the lost gospels as part of the orthodox doctrine?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6598219 - 02/22/07 04:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Because otherwise he wouldn't have let man change the books of the Bible, duh. :hehehe:

Either god is directly responsible for all action or no action. There is no middle-ground.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevigilant_mind
unfazed
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6598244 - 02/22/07 04:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

This thread is pointless. I'm beginning to think that FivePointer is 100% smug in his current theology and has no intentions of even considering that he is at fault.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6598265 - 02/22/07 04:52 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vigilant_mind said:
This thread is pointless. I'm beginning to think that FivePointer is 100% smug in his current theology and has no intentions of even considering that he is at fault.




Its quite possible that he is, yet these are the ideas that are presented, and one can take the discussion or leave it. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: justamonkey]
    #6598430 - 02/22/07 05:19 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Here's some applied logic of Christianity, filtered through Casteneda...it ought to be interesting, so read it up!

1. The world is evil. (All things worldly, ya know, gossip, useless power sapping soap opera stuff) Christian....but also Casteneda.

Christian method to fix #1, blame imperfection and beg for forgiveness.


The world is evil, no doubt, and no method fixes it.

Castaneda's method to fix #1, Stop the world. Do not involve yourself with it. It is useless waste of time and power.

2. The Afterlife

Christianity's view: Don't do 'bad' or you'll burn in Hell!


No one does good, and all are bad, so it is not a matter of not doing bad to avoid hell. Scripture is clear that "doing good" can never be a means to avoid hell. Salvation is not by merits, but solely by grace without works.

Casteneda's view: Afterlife? You suck at this life, get it right first!

3. Love and Acceptance

Christianity: God forgives you for being evil, so through his unconditional love, he gives you this CONDITION: Be good or burn forever.


This is openly false and opposed to Christian theology. Salvation has NO CONDITIONS. The elect are saved DESPITE who they are, not BECAUSE what they do. Everything is given from above. Faith, repentence, ect are not means of becoming justified, they are evidences of the justification that was freely given.

Casteneda: Nothing is personal, not love, not hate, nothing. It is all based on our own point of view, and that is all that matters.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery

Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fivepointer]
    #6598437 - 02/22/07 05:19 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Quote:

elbisivni said:
You're ignoring a lot of viable questions being presented in this thread, is this for convenience due to lack of sufficient defensive/compelling evidence and a lack of true knowledge that can be the result of much needed clarity?  Two-stepping around questions, providing insufficiently founded answers, etc., but I suppose this is how said system works huh?  From my point of view it seems like a lot of people here are attempting to help you see the constraints and ignorance you've adopted as a result of the questionable group that first pressured you to accept Christianity.




Actually I am not trying to dodge anything.  I just do not have the time to answer every question.

No group "pressured" me into anything, I was the agnostic's agnostic.  I merely came with an open mind to the scriptures and they opened up to me.  God reveals the gospel to those He intends to save, it is entirely a free gift.  I do not see what I believe as contraining or ignorant, I see it as the wisdom of God, and a joyous thing.




You remind me of that South Park episode about the Mormons... :lol:
But anyways... it all comes down to... whatever makes you feel safe dude...
After all, everyone perceives God according to our needs and in very much similarity to our own character and personality... In a word, the God you have in mind is a reflection of what you feel about yourself.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fivepointer]
    #6598470 - 02/22/07 05:26 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
The world is evil, no doubt, and no method fixes it.




A.) Define "evil" as you have come to understand and utilize it.

B.) Does not right action and understanding work towards resolving the root causes of what may be defined as "evil"?

Quote:


This is openly false and opposed to Christian theology. Salvation has NO CONDITIONS. The elect are saved DESPITE who they are, not BECAUSE what they do. Everything is given from above.




So, if someone cannot act in any manner that would ensure salvation, then what is the distinction between those who are saved and those who are condemned?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: Icelander]
    #6598544 - 02/22/07 05:38 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

elbisivni said:
You're ignoring a lot of viable questions being presented in this thread, is this for convenience due to lack of sufficient defensive/compelling evidence and a lack of true knowledge that can be the result of much needed clarity? Two-stepping around questions, providing insufficiently founded answers, etc., but I suppose this is how said system works huh? From my point of view it seems like a lot of people here are attempting to help you see the constraints and ignorance you've adopted as a result of the questionable group that first pressured you to accept Christianity.




IMO the original poster has no interest in seeing any other views. Of course he sidesteps questions he has no answer for. He, it seems, is not here to learn or discuss anything. He, it seems, is here to preach fundamentalist Christianity as part of his duty for his god. My guess is he is building up credits. I grew up around the dogmatic fundamentalist mindset. In church I was told that to read anything besides Christian literature was sinful and a waste of time. The people in my church were basically uneducated and prone to all sorts of superstitious beliefs. They repeated what they were told in church as mindless drones. Unfortunately my father was one of them. A very unhappy and fear driven man. So sad. He never was able to show any real love because he had none and believed he was a terrible sinner and groveled before his idol to beg forgiveness for being human. The only clear emotions he ever showed me were fear and wrath.:( Fortunately I have let go of much of this and feel much empathy for him and I also do for this poster. Yet I will aways stand against what they preach.




"Fundamentalist" really is not an accurate term for me for those familiar with theological terms.

No Christian "builds up credits", this sounds like Roman Catholicism. They teach such a works salvation. A Christian has ALREADY been forgiven, apart from any merits, and has FULL assurance of the forgiveness. The motivation of a believer is thanksgiving, not fear. I don't know your father's theology but it does not sound orthodox.

Most teachings in Christendom are false. If I approach a so called Christian and ask them for specifics of what they believe, they really have no clue, and most don't even read the Bible! They are drones. They do not believe the gospel that I believe in. The churches are a sea of wolves and a real disaster.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6598619 - 02/22/07 05:51 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vigilant_mind said:
This thread is pointless. I'm beginning to think that FivePointer is 100% smug in his current theology and has no intentions of even considering that he is at fault.




Your right. A believer by definition knows what he believes in. If I were to say "I'm considering my beliefs", then I'm not a believer, I'm an agnostic.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevigilant_mind
unfazed
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1,717
Loc: boco
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fivepointer]
    #6598692 - 02/22/07 06:06 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Your right. A believer by definition knows what he believes in. If I were to say "I'm considering my beliefs", then I'm not a believer, I'm an agnostic.




It is possible to believe in something yet not be certain.

Consider the following example:

I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, but I am not certain that it will. I acknowledge the fact that it is possible the sun will not rise.

You are saying that in order to believe in something, you cannot even have questions or concerns as to the validity of that belief. In my opinion, what you're describing is ignorance, not reasonable belief.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6598744 - 02/22/07 06:17 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

A.) Define "evil" as you have come to understand and utilize it.

How do we know what evil is? By the law. The when the law is broken it gives evidence of being evil. The law is a killing instrument, it testifies to the nature of man. The nature of fallen man is to think that law keeping obtains merits, this is the basis of most false religion, a self-righteous delusion.

B.) Does not right action and understanding work towards resolving the root causes of what may be defined as "evil"?

The root cause of evil is fact that man is fallen. Nothing can fix that, short of conversion.



Quote:

This is openly false and opposed to Christian theology. Salvation has NO CONDITIONS. The elect are saved DESPITE who they are, not BECAUSE what they do. Everything is given from above.



So, if someone cannot act in any manner that would ensure salvation, then what is the distinction between those who are saved and those who are condemned?

The grace of God is the only distiction. This is why boasting is excluded. A saved person can not say I did X, Y or Z to get saved, then he would have a reason to boast and hold this over others heads. Grace is freely given, not given upon meeting a condition. God has mercy on whom He will have mercy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fivepointer]
    #6598908 - 02/22/07 06:43 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
No one does good, and all are bad, so it is not a matter of not doing bad to avoid hell. Scripture is clear that "doing good" can never be a means to avoid hell. Salvation is not by merits, but solely by grace without works.





This is the crux of your rotten philosophy. Good can and is frequently done in the world. Hell is a state brought to fruition through negative deeds, just as heaven is a state brought to fruition through positive seeds. Nothing can manifest without a cause, this is clearly the case from a scientific point of view, just as it is from a spiriutal.

If your God condemns good people to hell simply becuase they do not believe, then he is a seriously flawed being who is not deserving of worship by anyone. In fact, if there is an omnipotent God who forsakes any of his children to eternal suffering, whatever they have done, then he is lacking in the virtuous qualities of uncoditional love and compassion, and on such grounds should be rejected as an object worthy of veneration or devotion.

If your God was omnipotent and had unconditional love such as you claim, there would be no suffering in this world at all, as such a being would not allow it to take place in the domain of his own creation. It simply makes no sense.

You can say that we have fallen, and it is our fault. But a compasisoante, omnipotent God would not allow for such a fall in the first place. Why would he make a less than perfect situation for his children, that he loves so dearly?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fivepointer]
    #6598916 - 02/22/07 06:45 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
How do we know what evil is? By the law. The when the law is broken it gives evidence of being evil.




The law is at the whim of human beings. Laws change, laws can be reversed. Are you asserting that anyone who uses hallucinogenic mushrooms is "evil"?

Quote:


The root cause of evil is fact that man is fallen. Nothing can fix that, short of conversion.




Man is "fallen"? What does that mean? What have I personally done to receive prior judgement?

Quote:


The grace of God is the only distiction. This is why boasting is excluded. A saved person can not say I did X, Y or Z to get saved, then he would have a reason to boast and hold this over others heads. Grace is freely given, not given upon meeting a condition. God has mercy on whom He will have mercy.




So then how do you know that some are saved and some are not, and what distinction does God make in determining this? If one cannot know that one is saved by one's actions, then how can one know that another has been condemned?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6599075 - 02/22/07 07:14 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

fivepointer said:
How do we know what evil is? By the law. The when the law is broken it gives evidence of being evil.




The law is at the whim of human beings. Laws change, laws can be reversed. Are you asserting that anyone who uses hallucinogenic mushrooms is "evil"?

I was not referring to political laws. The law refers to what the scripture defines as law.

Quote:


The root cause of evil is fact that man is fallen. Nothing can fix that, short of conversion.




Man is "fallen"? What does that mean? What have I personally done to receive prior judgement?

Man is imputed guilty in Adam and condemned in Adam. Man also inherits a fallen nature due to the effects of the Fall.

Quote:


The grace of God is the only distiction. This is why boasting is excluded. A saved person can not say I did X, Y or Z to get saved, then he would have a reason to boast and hold this over others heads. Grace is freely given, not given upon meeting a condition. God has mercy on whom He will have mercy.




So then how do you know that some are saved and some are not, and what distinction does God make in determining this? If one cannot know that one is saved by one's actions, then how can one know that another has been condemned?




Those who believe the gospel are saved. The belief of the gospel is the immediate fruit of salvation. Everyone that God intends to save will in good time hear the gospel and believe it. There is no salvation without the new birth, belief of the gospel, and giving of the Holy Spirit.

Many can appear to have many outwardly appearing good deeds, but this is not how one determines if someone is a Christian. The doctrine they hold to, what they believe about who Christ is and what He has done, defines the gospel. These doctrines cut right into the heart and is how a Christian decides who is and is not a fellow Christian.

What causes God to save one and not another? This is according to His good pleasure alone.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fivepointer]
    #6599128 - 02/22/07 07:21 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

What causes God to save one and not another? This is according to His good pleasure alone.




Exactly. Now kindly stop assuming on His behalf.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery

Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: fivepointer]
    #6599137 - 02/22/07 07:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Those who believe the gospel are saved. The belief of the gospel is the immediate fruit of salvation. Everyone that God intends to save will in good time hear the gospel and believe it. There is no salvation without the new birth, belief of the gospel, and giving of the Holy Spirit.

Many can appear to have many outwardly appearing good deeds, but this is not how one determines if someone is a Christian. The doctrine they hold to, what they believe about who Christ is and what He has done, defines the gospel. These doctrines cut right into the heart and is how a Christian decides who is and is not a fellow Christian.





And what will happen to the Buddhists? They don't believe the gospel but they seem like very nice people, so much more then Christians. Will God save them? :confused:

Quote:

fivepointer said:
What causes God to save one and not another? This is according to His good pleasure alone.




If that's so, would you be ok of God would consider you unworthy of being saved?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6599144 - 02/22/07 07:25 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
And what will happen to the Buddhists? They don't believe the gospel but they seem like very nice people, so much more then Christians. Will God save them? :confused:



Don't you know anything?  God only saves assholes who push their beliefs on others.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery

Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 24 days
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: Silversoul]
    #6599155 - 02/22/07 07:27 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
And what will happen to the Buddhists? They don't believe the gospel but they seem like very nice people, so much more then Christians. Will God save them? :confused:



Don't you know anything?  God only saves assholes who push their beliefs on others.




Lol


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: What shall be your excuse? You have been warned of the judgment to come. [Re: Sinbad]
    #6599232 - 02/22/07 07:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Seems just about as pointless as a who-is-less-competitive competition doesn't it?


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | Next >

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* HEY FIVEPOINTER, I LOOKED AT SHIT FROM THE BIBLE!! Cracka_X 2,606 16 01/09/08 11:46 AM
by fireworks_god
* Duality or Judgment? Veritas 634 6 06/17/05 07:29 AM
by Icelander
* Judgment day.
( 1 2 all )
Icelander 2,490 22 09/24/07 10:50 AM
by Icelander
* Evangelism
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 2,824 45 01/30/04 09:54 AM
by infidelGOD
* I want you guys to understand Christian Judgment
( 1 2 3 4 all )
World Spirit 4,364 65 05/05/03 09:33 PM
by CosmicJoke
* A warning for dreamers Moonshoe 2,338 11 08/12/06 12:26 PM
by leery11
* How can you not be a fundamentalist? SpecialEd 875 9 12/29/03 12:48 PM
by Anonymous
* Islamic Fundamentalists
( 1 2 all )
BlueOrb 2,404 24 09/17/04 07:39 AM
by BanJankri

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
21,174 topic views. 2 members, 1 guests and 18 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 15 queries.