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Meat_hod
sick shit


Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 1,808
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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New Project....tell me what you think.
#6577150 - 02/17/07 02:47 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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oK, so my new project im going to be working on is sort of like a bonsai forest, with mold/bacteria/or fungi, or all three. I've done it before in sealed jars, and it was really cool looking and fun to watch. My goal is to obtain an aesthetically pleasing display, that is self sustaining, and totally closed off from the outside. I'm not sure how long it will be able to survive, but i know that it will at least last for a good 6 months. And obviously it will be changing constantly.
Anyways, if anyone has any ideas, i'd love to hear them...
I'd also like to hear if you have any suggestions as to which kind of mold i should try to use, preferably one that is cool looking.
I made a little drawing, just to give you guys a better idea of what i'm looking to create.
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xhooliganx
Munky


Registered: 03/09/06
Posts: 900
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6577187 - 02/17/07 03:33 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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well you have a limited time from the fruiting of mushrooms to the time when they start rotting, so you're going to have to pick the fruits.
Besides that I'd think that you should start focusing on outdoor cultivation to get an idea of what you can do with more factors and a natural symbiosis. attempting an aesthetic symbiosis is going to be difficult. You're probably going to want to find fungus, bacteria, and mold that will not intrude too much. Do you have experience with bonsai? You might want to try transplanting a small bonsai tree into mushroom substrate and maybe include something else like a grass.
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Edited by xhooliganx (02/21/07 01:46 AM)
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Meat_hod
sick shit


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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: xhooliganx]
#6577208 - 02/17/07 03:48 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am going to be doing experiments with different molds and fungi and possibly lichen (if i can figure out how to cultivate them) to see which will work the best for my project. Also, a symbiosis between fungi and mold would be quite difficult, therefor i am going into this project expecting a lot of rotting etc. etc. And it's not neccessarily a bad thing, as it could be interesting to watch.
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shirley knott
not my real name

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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6577349 - 02/17/07 07:04 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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sounds fascinating, a microcosm behind glass, like a fishtank
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waixingren


Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 2,645
Loc: SW Florida
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6577372 - 02/17/07 07:20 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the hardest part of this is going to be incorporating a mushroom producing fungi. i have a somewhat similar project that i put together a while back kind of on accident. I'll upload some pics in a little while.
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Meat_hod
sick shit


Registered: 09/27/05
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: waixingren]
#6577386 - 02/17/07 07:26 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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The goal of this project is not growing fruit bodies in an environment with other mold species, although if it were to happen accidentally, that would be pretty neat. I've done some experiments in the past and was able to get a couple small mushrooms to come up in a sealed jar, and last quite a long time, untill eventually being consumed by mold.
And i'd like to see those pictures of yours...
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Entersandman
Wings of Tomorrow


Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 624
Loc: behind the border
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: waixingren]
#6577388 - 02/17/07 07:27 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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this is a perfect idea....
i came across the same idea some time ago but don“t have the time to realize this project!
Meat_hod, you claimed you had done that in sealed jars.do you have pics of them? i would love to see your work!
with kind regards!
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Meat_hod
sick shit


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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Entersandman]
#6577396 - 02/17/07 07:32 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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hmm, i don't think i have any photos, although i'll try to dig some up.
Picture a jar with about 1 inch of wild rice in the bottem, for the first months it conolized slowly, then a while after that i noticed a mushroom popping up, it grew about 1-2 inches, then dropped it's spores and just sort of stayed there for a long time in the closed environment (note that i had opened the jar a few times to let the co2 escape) then green mold started to consume the rice but grew very slowly, and eventually grew over the fruit body. Then a long time after that, i noticed yellow mold forming, then it got thrown out..for some reason. It was part of my inspiration for this project.
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waixingren


Registered: 03/14/05
Posts: 2,645
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6577419 - 02/17/07 08:04 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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ok here we go. It's not pretty but i think it is relevant to this subject. Forgive the small pictures, i was at my upload limit.







This is basically dirt in a tub. The container is a chinese food tub. i tossed in some dirt and transplanted a small patch of the grassy/leafy stuff which covers the dirt. all of the other plants popped up on their own. I assume there were seeds in the dirt and these are the only plants which could survive in the environment.
I open the tub once every 1-2 months to observe its progress.
I'm not really sure what else to add. I hope this helps..somehow. lol
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Meat_hod
sick shit


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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: waixingren]
#6577425 - 02/17/07 08:09 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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cooool, those are some really neat photos! I think today i am going to start setting up a bunch of different experiments to see what happens, i'll keep everyone posted!
EDIT: If anyone has any idea's on how to obtain a veriety of spores from around my home that would be very helpful.
p.s. we have like 2 feet of snow, so i can't find anything outside.
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Edited by Meat_hod (02/17/07 08:13 AM)
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waixingren


Registered: 03/14/05
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6577445 - 02/17/07 08:26 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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i also had another project a while back which wasnt air tight but it did produce numerous types of mushrooms. i put some dirt in a small tub(6"x12"x4"). I also added various sticks and pieces of yard debris. i kept the tub covered with plastic wrap and misted it on occasion. Over a period of about 5 months i observed maybe 10 different types of mushrooms emerge. plus a very interesting colony of physarum polycephalum. Eventually a colony of millipedes emerged and thrived. I'll try to upload pics of that whenever i can.
Meat_hod your post has inspired me to start a new terrarium. Good luck to you.
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Meat_hod
sick shit


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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: waixingren]
#6578918 - 02/17/07 04:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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ahah awesome! keep me posted.
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SofaKingGood
Stranger

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 537
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6583744 - 02/19/07 12:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I really wanna see how this project unfolds. Makes me wanna start one too. Hmm, possible new fad spreading through the Advanced Mycology forum.
-------------------- [quote]I8thesh400m said: he-has-as-have-i-chek-My-ratings to-the-post-origionator-5-to-you there-are-nice-people-but-be-smart my-spacebar-is-broke:p [/quote]
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: SofaKingGood]
#6584251 - 02/19/07 05:24 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SofaKingGood said:Hmm, possible new fad spreading through the Advanced Mycology forum.
Ha! It's been a fad in my fridge for as long as I've been a bachelor.
-FF
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SofaKingGood
Stranger

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 537
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: fastfred]
#6584436 - 02/19/07 07:13 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Quote:
SofaKingGood said:Hmm, possible new fad spreading through the Advanced Mycology forum.
Ha! It's been a fad in my fridge for as long as I've been a bachelor.
-FF
Lol. I don't know whether or not to give you a thumbs up or be utterly repulsed. So, I am going with the thumbs up
-------------------- [quote]I8thesh400m said: he-has-as-have-i-chek-My-ratings to-the-post-origionator-5-to-you there-are-nice-people-but-be-smart my-spacebar-is-broke:p [/quote]
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SofaKingGood
Stranger

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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: SofaKingGood]
#6586371 - 02/19/07 05:49 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry for the double post. Maybe I am just stupid or something but could a tek be made on how to go about making this artificial environment. I am guessing it is just like making some brf/verm substrate ( did wonders for my mom's roses ) putting it in a container with a bit of soil above it and then let it grow. If this isn't how you go about it can you clear it up for me. I am really enthusiastic about doing this.
-------------------- [quote]I8thesh400m said: he-has-as-have-i-chek-My-ratings to-the-post-origionator-5-to-you there-are-nice-people-but-be-smart my-spacebar-is-broke:p [/quote]
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Meat_hod
sick shit


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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: SofaKingGood]
#6586392 - 02/19/07 05:56 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, i'd say that if you want to do this at home, the easiest way would be to put a piece of fruit in a bad and leave it in your closet for a week.
If you want to get a big more technical, i'd look at agar teks, and use the same techniques for growing mold.
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SofaKingGood
Stranger

Registered: 06/23/06
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6586413 - 02/19/07 06:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright. Anyone have any surplus agar? I used the last of mine trying to isolate a weird growing mutant PESA. If not I will just hit up the Marketplace. So just like, grab an apple, throw in in a plastic bag and wait? After that would I just transplant the rotting apple into the future container?
-------------------- [quote]I8thesh400m said: he-has-as-have-i-chek-My-ratings to-the-post-origionator-5-to-you there-are-nice-people-but-be-smart my-spacebar-is-broke:p [/quote]
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Meat_hod
sick shit


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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: SofaKingGood]
#6586560 - 02/19/07 06:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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i would assume so.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6586746 - 02/19/07 07:20 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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You're not going to grow molds and mushrooms together. It's rare indeed to see a contaminated cake or substrate fruit after the contamination has set in. I can't imagine trying to do it on purpose, releasing billions of contaminant spores into your house and future grow area. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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SofaKingGood
Stranger

Registered: 06/23/06
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6586914 - 02/19/07 08:01 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well how do you propose I/we go about this then? I was thinking about making some "mushroom water" ( refer to The 9er Tek on instructions on making mushroom water ) and just letting it seep through the top casing layer, into the substrate underneath. That would take care of the mushroom part, then maybe just through in some grass seeds ( or other small plant ) to give it that ambiance type feel to it.
-------------------- [quote]I8thesh400m said: he-has-as-have-i-chek-My-ratings to-the-post-origionator-5-to-you there-are-nice-people-but-be-smart my-spacebar-is-broke:p [/quote]
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RogerRabbit
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: SofaKingGood]
#6586964 - 02/19/07 08:13 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Like this? Mexicana A strain. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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SofaKingGood
Stranger

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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6586985 - 02/19/07 08:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yea, thinking about it now, I might do this in a 5-10 gallon fish tank. Kind like a field. It would be awesome to have different strains ( as well as some old logs for the wood lovers ) growing in different regions of the tank.
-------------------- [quote]I8thesh400m said: he-has-as-have-i-chek-My-ratings to-the-post-origionator-5-to-you there-are-nice-people-but-be-smart my-spacebar-is-broke:p [/quote]
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RogerRabbit
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: SofaKingGood]
#6587210 - 02/19/07 09:06 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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The grass above grew powdery mildew before those caps could even open, ruining the project. Plants and mushrooms do well together in nature, but unfortunately not in indoor cultivation. Any wood in a project like that would grow trichoderma long before any wood loving mushrooms could fruit. Sorry. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Meat_hod
sick shit


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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6587756 - 02/19/07 10:54 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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"You're not going to grow molds and mushrooms together."
That is not what i intend to do...just so you know..
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SofaKingGood
Stranger

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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6588079 - 02/20/07 12:11 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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So this little environment is limited to only mushrooms. I kinda wanted to have a little mini ecosystem going on. I won't be eating what is grown so would it matter if the mushrooms have the contam that RR had? Or did that mildew totally kill off the mushrooms?
-------------------- [quote]I8thesh400m said: he-has-as-have-i-chek-My-ratings to-the-post-origionator-5-to-you there-are-nice-people-but-be-smart my-spacebar-is-broke:p [/quote]
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Meat_hod
sick shit


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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: SofaKingGood]
#6588985 - 02/20/07 10:25 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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A true ecosystem would be quite difficult to plan out, as you would need to figure out how to achieve a symbiosis between different organisms, the easiest way to get a closed ecosystem is with fish and oxygen producing plants.
And no i don't really want to grow mushrooms either, this is mostly going to be mold as my goal is attaining a sort of miniature looking landscape, 1 or two mushrooms would be a great addition but would have to be grown before the addition of any contamination, and after any contam is introduced it's only a matter of time untill the mushrooms are covered up and eaten. I will most likely be using a base of substrate that will be modeled to look llike certain types of terrain, ei. hills and stuff. This project is probably 80% artistic and 20% mycology. Also note that the craftmenship of the base and globe are a big part of my project.
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PoC
Relax


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Posts: 2,142
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6604755 - 02/24/07 03:42 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey RR I was just looking at your pictures of the mushrooms and grass growing together. Are those rye berries that sprouted? I'm wondering if this happened with the yellow mold inside a fruiting chamber that could have contams floating about?
I was thinking about this...if one were to say go about making a jar of BRF/verm or some other substrate that would give nutrients to rye berries in a normal mycological fashion, would it be possible to somehow sterilize rye berries and just add them? Maybe only fill the jar up 1/3 of the way and then drop in half a dozen rye berries in there and watch them grow together? I was looking at this thread and somehow the idea of watching them both grow together amuses me.
Maybe a soaking and then wiping the outside with alcohol might work? Although the alcohol might just dry out the seed and there might still be contaminants on the inside. If you could get the seeds to be sterile but still viable then wouldn't it be plausible to grow them along with the mushies and have a typical tyvek/micropore tape filter over the cap of a jar? If there's any way to do this I'd be very interested. I'd put down some black plastic trash bag underneath the substrate so the sides wouldn't get any light and then just leave it out somewhere.
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: PoC]
#6604826 - 02/24/07 05:18 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/Area_of_Interest/Life_Science/Plant_Biotechnology/Tissue_Culture_Protocols/Explant_Sterilization.html
To avoid bacterial and fungal growth, which is detrimental to culture growth, explants are surface-sterilized before they are used to establish in vitro axenic cultures. The most common disinfectants are listed below with the concentration and exposure times that preserve the explant, but at the same time destroy any microbial contamination.
Dry seed sterilization:
1. Collect seed and place in either a small flask or bottle, or place in a shortened pipet which has one end sealed with cotton. Seal the other end of the pipet with cotton, once the seed has been placed in the pipet.
2. Prepare a solution containing 5-10% commercial bleach containing a few drops of Tween 20.
3. Add the bleach solution to the flask, or draw up the solution into the pipet. Swirl the flask containing the seed and bleach or repeatedly draw and aspirate the bleach solution in and out of the pipet.
4. Sterilize the seed for 5-10 minutes.
5. Remove the bleach solution and rinse the seed with sterile tissue culture grade water.
6. Transfer the seed to sterile culture medium.
-FF
P.S. You can omit the Tween 20, or substitute it with a drop or two of dishsoap or jetdry.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: fastfred]
#6605114 - 02/24/07 09:49 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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It was rye grass seed that was planted in the casing material right after it was placed on the colonized substrate. The mold was dactylium, which is in the air everywhere. It got on the wet grass and started growing, which doomed the project. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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geedorah
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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: Meat_hod]
#6605558 - 02/24/07 12:52 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your picture reminds me of the terradome. I have one but have not had the time to set it up. I like you idea and have wanted to try something similar. The only thing about the terradome is that it's not completely sealed off and has a ventilation hole at the top.
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SofaKingGood
Stranger

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Re: New Project....tell me what you think. [Re: geedorah]
#6605587 - 02/24/07 01:06 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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How much will that terradome run for?
-------------------- [quote]I8thesh400m said: he-has-as-have-i-chek-My-ratings to-the-post-origionator-5-to-you there-are-nice-people-but-be-smart my-spacebar-is-broke:p [/quote]
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