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 nugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/04/00
Posts: 3,442
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 Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached!  [Re: MetaShroom]
#660412 - 06/03/02 09:44 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Also thanks for the link Metashroom, that article gives more insight into the whole conversation, sometimes quotes taken out of context, betray their meaning, this has changed my position about the petition altogether.
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 luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: nugsarenice]
#660545 - 06/03/02 11:20 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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So enlighten us, in what way has it changed your position.
I have no jewish or palestinian friends. (that I'm aware of) I agree with Sharon though, to those who wrong you...death.
The more damage you do, the more of your enemies you destroy, the safer you are.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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hongomon
old hand
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#660552 - 06/03/02 11:24 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't know. I've seen enough evidence myself from the images coming out of there. I mean, they're destroying entire neighborhoods with their tanks. I guess if I was bent on an entirely indiscriminate means of targetting Palestinians, then I could do it from a convenient distance.
But in this situation, maybe it could be that the Israeli soldiers have been instructed to seek out either particular suspects or suspect-profiles (Arab male, aged 15-40?). Indeed, over a thousand Palestinians were rounded up. But that the Israelis were excessive in their methods, to the point of literal terrorism, I don't doubt. It's obvious that there's plenty of hate pointed in both directions over there.
A joint statement made by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the International Commission of Jurists April 11, 2002:
http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/apr11/fp4.htm
hongomon
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nugsarenice
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Posts: 3,442
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Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#660693 - 06/03/02 12:52 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I feel the petition is a fake. They must be con artists, trying to con for money, by making it seem like they have alot signatures. The more enemies that you destroy the stonger, is a philosophy practiced by Bush and his supporters, obviously. They want to destroy all the little countries, so the big country has no fear, otherwise the big country will worry about losing itself, which is the philosophy most people have about themselves, that their life, purpose, are more important to others, that's not my philosphy though, I believe in equality.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: nugsarenice]
#660726 - 06/03/02 01:23 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Equality? There is no such thing, never will be. Men & women are almost always in, and will always be, in competition with each other of both sexes. Of course there are those who will always be content with their lot in life.
There should only be equality of oppourtunity, anything else is a sham. Even then, there is no equality, some will work harder.... should the reward for all be equal? Some will try harder... some sing better.... some are nicer.... some are better looking.... some are stronger. Equality???? Impossible.
In order for there to be equality, you must punish or hold back those who strive to excel. Is that the type of world you want? Not me! I want those who strive to be able to succeed, they are those who discover medical advances, new technologies, methods of travel, and so on. They deserve more since they do more.
Back on subject... don't believe everything you read. There's a saying:
Believe none of what you read or hear, and only half of what you see.
As an end to my participation in this thread, as long as the Palestinians keep using methods of terror to try and accomplish their goals, they are doomed to fail. Arafat was offered almost everything he wanted when sitting down at the peace talks hosted by Clinton, he didn't sign. As such he gets no sympathy from me, he brought the misery down on himself and sadly on his people as well.
Sharon's stance is a wise and valid one as far as I'm concerned.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: nugsarenice]
#660731 - 06/03/02 01:28 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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One last thought..... In reply to:
First israili's around the world think the israili government is acting wrongly in the palestinian war.
Sure, some do. Many , perhaps the vast majority, do not. Also, find me a country where all the people agree with everything their governments do, and I'll show you a brutal dictatorship. Do a little research, see how many middle east countries give the people the right to vote, and how many give the people the right to speak against the government.
It's good to see you have opinions, but back them up, do a little research before spouting off, and you'll seem a bit wiser.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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hongomon
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#660745 - 06/03/02 01:47 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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luvdemshrooms:
"Back on subject... don't believe everything you read. There's a saying:
Believe none of what you read or hear, and only half of what you see."
(and later)
"It's good to see you have opinions, but back them up, do a little research before spouting off, and you'll seem a bit wiser."
Gotta admit, you got me stuck.
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powderfinger
member
Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 112
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: nugsarenice]
#662026 - 06/04/02 06:38 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is nothing but propaganda. This stuff was made up by some asshole pali. A statement like that wouldn't stand even in Isreal, where terrorists are blowing up themselves in public places. It is one thing to fight a war and have losses but to not even attack military targets and instead kill civilians is rediculous. Who ever made that quote up was just trying to make what the palis are doing look pale in comparison.
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Shelter me from the powder and the finger,
cover me with the thought that pulled the trigger.
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hongomon
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: powderfinger]
#662351 - 06/04/02 09:05 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Powderfinger, a hypothetical situation:
You were born and raised in a refugee camp, and your people are at war with another nation, the nation that displaced you into your present situation. That nation's military is leagues beyond your people's rag-tag army. You're dirt poor, the other guys are rich. They can afford tanks and Apache helicopters, and a whole lot more. You just can't compare to that kind of force.
What's your move?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: hongomon]
#662508 - 06/04/02 10:25 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I know you asked powder, but I'll tell you what would help. Replace that ass Arafat. He had a chance to get almost everything he asked for, and more than anyone could have hoped for, yet he wouldn't sign the agreement brokerd by Clinton.
He refuses to condem the bombers in any meaningful way, he allows his "police" to set terrorists free, makes no real effort to stop the bombers. The man is an ass, and while there is no assuranse that things would be better wth another leader, it couldn't hurt to try.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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hongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#662625 - 06/04/02 11:31 AM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, you may not have noticed that in my hypothetical situation there is no Arafat, or Sharon, or Mid east, or anything along those lines. It's a hypothetical situation that invites you to think as THAT PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL IN THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION.
But let's give the situation a bit more substance, per your response:
So you're saying that for the person born and raised in a Palestinian refugee camp, poor as dirt, etc., the option is to replace Arafat?
To that, the angry Palestinian refugee might say, "What kind of advice is that, you fat American pig who has no grasp of our struggle and doesn't give a shit about us?"
Then, as a sincere supporter of peace, how do you respond?
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powderfinger
member
Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 112
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: hongomon]
#662901 - 06/04/02 02:48 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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It should be made clear that I respect your right to an opinion. The thing is, wars are fought, one side wins and the other looses. In this case the palis lost and to the victor goes the spoils. I also think that it is strange, but not unexpected, that people root for the under dog. It might not be fair but the Palis lost. I don't care what the circumstances were that statred the war but the fact that Palis are committing thease acts negates their position to say who is right here. To give in to terrorists would be wrong. Moving on, Arafat is a monster and needs to sincerly condem the terrorists working towards his goal. Also, the people in those camps are aiding and abeding these terrorists and should pay for that.
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Shelter me from the powder and the finger,
cover me with the thought that pulled the trigger.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: hongomon]
#662924 - 06/04/02 03:06 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would respond as follows:
You're right, I don't give a shit about a people who teach their kids to hate, to kill innocent civilians,and who follow a stooge such as Arafat.
And powder.... enjoyed your post.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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hongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#663123 - 06/04/02 05:39 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I appreciate the answers, guys. Both of you. But let's go back to my original post. I invited you into a hypothetical situation where YOU were a refugee in a camp. YOU had lived your whole life under the fear of helicopters. YOU had grown up hearing the hateful rhetoric told you by your elders, and your leaders. Perhaps you didn't buy everything you were told, and wanted to make better sense of the situation, but you can't deny that you saw your cousin shot last year, and your best friend's father was arrested in April and hasn't been seen since.
In this hypothetical situation, YOU are that person. Your answer then should start, "I would do..." or "I might try to.."
I'm not suggesting this to try and create a defense for terrorism!
I just think it's in everybody's best interest to try and see where people are coming from.
If I was born into a situation like the one I put forth, I don't know how long I could handle the terrible injustices, the absolute helplessness, feeling that the world powers don't give a nickel about what I feel, or my family. Do I feel that we have a cause worth fighting for? If I do, how long am I satisfied throwing rocks at men firing M-16s and M-60s at me, and not in their neighborhood, but in mine?
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Anonymous
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Re: Have Ariel Sharon Impeached! [Re: hongomon]
#663147 - 06/04/02 06:03 PM (21 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd emmigrate, establish a false identity as a person from the group which has done this shit to me and mine, work hard to make lots of money, buy or build a .50 rifle, follow the leader to another country on some diplomatic business and put a bullet through his skull. Or maybe pool my resources with other like minded people, hire someone else to do it and keep on doing it with every leader we possibly can. Hopefully my true identity will never come out if I got caught so my people won't be blamed.
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