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 SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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 Live no evil..... 
#6566976 - 02/14/07 01:46 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not that I believe in an inherent good or evil, but I want to illustrate a point about PLURish comments.
notice that to see no evil, the money has to blind himself.
notice that to hear no evil, the monkey has to make himself deaf.
notice how to speak no evil, the monkey must be a mute.
what would you have to do to live no evil?
imagine how many times, in the pursuit of shutting out what you deem to be bad or evil, how much of what you deem good was missed?
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aelephant
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I don't believe in good and evil myself, but for the sake of a post I'll indulge:
Evil is in the intent. If one knows the harm that their actions will cause and carries them out anyway, that is evil. Everything else is ignorance or misguidedness. To live a life free of "evil" you don't have to do anything, just stop intending harm into the world (it's self-defeating anyway).
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As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine
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leery11
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Hearing and seeing evil causes one to create (speak) evil, unless one is aware of what is going on?
If one is aware, one would simply do their best to accept regardless of if they agree, but to attempt to be in the presence of as much good as possible... and whenever possible try to make their environment better.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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SneezingPenis
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Re: Live no evil..... [Re: leery11]
#6567501 - 02/14/07 04:03 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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harm is just as subjective as good and bad. To cause no harm would mean to take no action.
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FrenchSocialist
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You have to receive the right genes and the right environmental imprinting relative to the agent which is evaluating you.
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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
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SneezingPenis
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aelephant
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
harm is just as subjective as good and bad. To cause no harm would mean to take no action.
No, taking no action is an action in and of itself and can be more harmful than any of the alternatives.
But yes, it is subjective.
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leery11
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Re: Live no evil..... [Re: aelephant]
#6567571 - 02/14/07 04:22 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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From the vantage of a human being, one can through a constant application of mindfulness and critical thinking reduce as much harm to other fellow beings as possible. This employed with the volition to never deliberately cause harm eliminates almost all the suffering that a human being can eliminate with his relative scope of influence.
If one only acts out of the absolute maxim of one's best and most benevolent intentions, and employs practices to routinely examine and thoughtfully and mindfully correct, tweak, and keep these intentions in tune....
What is your function?
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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FrenchSocialist
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You--psilocyberin
have to receive the right genes-- a "unit of heredity and carries inherited information"
and the right environmental imprinting--
a "term used in psychology and ethology to describe any kind of phase-sensitive learning (learning occurring at a particular age or a particular life stage) that is rapid and apparently independent of the consequences of behavior."
relative to the agent--
"the participant of a situation that carries out an action."
which is evaluating--
"to judge or determine the significance, worth, or quality of; assess" (in this context judging as good or evil)
you--psilocyberin
Note that the agents sense of judgment itself will likely be determined by its genes and its environmental imprinting. To further clarify, I am treating moral judgments as agent dependent while also noting that these agents probably lack free will (hence the emphasis on genetics and environment). In essence I am saying that morality is both subjective and determined.
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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
Edited by FrenchSocialist (02/14/07 04:31 PM)
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SneezingPenis
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Re: Live no evil..... [Re: leery11]
#6567673 - 02/14/07 04:46 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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even if harm could be properly defined objectively, there would be no way to determine which causes more harm: action or inaction.
To think that this decision could be based upon examination of present or the near future is shirking responsibility for the impact of the "ripple" your action or inaction created.
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SneezingPenis
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ok.....
I dont believe genetics have anything to do with personality.
to the unexamined existence, morality could be left in the hands of environmental factors, most likely cultural/societal guidelines.
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FrenchSocialist
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From The Science of Good and Evil:
Quote:
There is now in fact, a banquet of data that has spawned a new field of research on the cognitivie neuroscience of human social behavior, demonstrating that humans evolved powerful neurological mechanisms to reinforce cooperation, accentuate pro-social behavior, and bond non-related people through a process of social exchange. Jorge Moll and his colleagues, for example, monitoring fMRI brain scans, found that moral emotions activate the amygdala, or emotion module in the brain, indicating that moral behaviors are as much related to moral emotions, as they are to moral reasons.
In any event, why wouldn't morality be at least in part genetically determined? Every other human trait is at some level.
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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
Edited by FrenchSocialist (02/14/07 05:02 PM)
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SneezingPenis
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actually, you have been mislead, the only thing that Neuro-sciences have been able to produce is correlations and have yet to produce any solid evidence for cause and effect.
Also, the amygdala arent proprietary to homo sapiens.
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 Individual
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There can't be no good without evil
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THE PHILOSOPHY OF LIBERTY <---
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SneezingPenis
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Re: Live no evil..... [Re: Individual]
#6567883 - 02/14/07 05:39 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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no there can not be.
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FrenchSocialist
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That's actually only true if there are no reasonable alternatives offered as an explanation.
Quote:
Cum Hoc is the fallacy committed when one jumps to a conclusion about causation based on a correlation between two events, or types of event, which occur simultaneously. In order to avoid this fallacy, one needs to rule out other possible explanations for the correlation
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/cumhocfa.html
This is done by collecting data by the proper means:
Quote:
Accordingly, I argue that correlation is a necessary but not a sufficient condition to make causal inferences with reasonable confidence. Also necessary is an appropriate method of data collection. To make such causal inferences one must gather the data by experimental means, controlling extraneous variables which might confound the results. Having gathered the data in this fashion, if one can establish that the experimentally manipulated variable is correlated with the dependent variable (and that correlation does not need to be linear), then one should be (somewhat) comfortable in making a causal inference. That is, when the data have been gathered by experimental means and confounds have been eliminated, correlation does imply causation.
http://core.ecu.edu/psyc/wuenschk/StatHelp/Correlation-Causation.htm
Quote:
To say a "Correlation does not suggest causation" is not necessarily true: A demonstrably consistent correlation often suggests or increases the probability of some causal relationship (or implies it, in the latter sense of the term).
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
That is why it may be better to state that "correlation may not imply causation".
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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
Edited by FrenchSocialist (02/14/07 05:48 PM)
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SneezingPenis
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even though this will lead to further semantics..... <sigh>.....
A study to rule out other possibilities is rarely done.... why? because we have yet to find truly ethical ways of doing it.
to truly rule out all other possibilities, we would have to thoroughly chart about 1000 factors over the course of a persons life from infancy (maybe even pre-natal) to say.... 20 years of age. Meaning that we would have to see if the persons experiences weren't the cause of activating/enlarging/stunting parts of the brain.....
but has this stopped scientists from stating it as fact, or atleast alluding to it being fact (such behaviour is seen in your quotations) that depression is caused by imbalanced brain chemicals, and feeding people drugs that berthed the worlds wealthiest industry.
Quote:
That is why it may be better to state that "correlation may not imply causation".
this draws the (wrong) conclusion that western science has reached a ceiling of knowledge of all known possible causes while spitting in the face of chaos theory.
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leery11
I Tell You What!
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Re: Live no evil..... [Re: Individual]
#6568282 - 02/14/07 07:13 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
kummitussai said:
There can't be no good without evil
good and evil are just words
if someone eats a banana and it tastes wonderful, and they do not have raw sewage to compare it to.... it still tastes good.
a child receives joy from being hugged regardless of whether or not he has ever had his lunch money stolen.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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jonnyjonjonjon
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Re: Live no evil..... [Re: leery11]
#6568558 - 02/14/07 08:22 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ive successfully got rid of every part of myself that was bad or evil and although its less fun theres something about it that empowers me. Im unstoppable because all i se in myself is good. Thats all due to my own weakness though. In my case the bad ive got rid of was indulging in drugs all the time. If I just learnt to not be ashamed of taking drugs it wouldnt have been able to weaken me and i would always be at my best but id get to have fun taking drugs at the same time.
Im definately gonna do drugs again in the future but im doimg this as an experiment and a test of will. Ive jumped from extreme to the other. Ive stopped taking drugs altogether. Ive gone 3 months so far. What im working on now is stopping drinking tea or coffee which is a habit ive taken up since i stopped doing drugs. I never used to drink coffee but nowadays i stop in the coffeeshop every 1 or 2 days and drink an espresso or cappuccino just for the fun of it. Doesnt do me any harm but its a habit all the same. Im trying to get rid of every single daily or weekly habit i have.
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Mother goose said to the swan "Is that PCP your cooking?" and the swan replied "Yes, yes it is.
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FrenchSocialist
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The actual rule in full is that one needs to rule out any reasonable alternatives.
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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
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