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Offlinededjam
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You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES * 1
    #6565749 - 02/14/07 06:16 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Just had a friend get busted not too long ago for selling mushrooms and weed. Of course, one of the many things the confiscated was her cell phone. Well, recently (and I should have known this) I found out that police have software to get even erased messaged off a phone and sim card (just like you would get erased files off a computer). Any text messages sent from that phone that havent been overwritten will still come up.

Cell phones arent as safe as many people think they are, and text messaging is DESIGNED to help police investigations. Also, many cell phone providers also permanently store messages you send on their servers (I dont understand this one). See the big Kobe Bryant rape case for more about this one, but AT&T ended up handing over all the accusers past text messages...

Now my questions...and im all paranoid because they were my friend and we did alot of talking through text...what can they do based on just a text? I really wouldnt think text messages are enough for an arrest warrant, but what about a search warrant? I'm not too worried...I have nothing in my house thats illegal, but I certainly dont want to go through having my place torn up by cops.

The kicker... a police officer thats friends of the family said they had texts from us and "proof" we were either buying or selling. I assume I am not being watched, which once again I dont mind because I have nothing to hide...but at the same times its creepy.

So if anyone has any insight that would be great. If not, just take my warning if you already didnt know, and watch what is said through text messages.

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OfflineSchwip
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam]
    #6569850 - 02/15/07 04:57 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yep, I fucking despise when people send stupid text messages.

And what can you do, once sent? (I mean being on the receiving end of the text)

Wonder how long they are saved to the phones memory or on the phone places server?(if they even are?)


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--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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InvisibleBanez
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam]
    #6574880 - 02/16/07 02:36 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

im not positive about this.. but arent most modern day cell phones equipped with GPS as well?

for instance if you dial 9-1-1.. and the phone call is cut off.. cant they still locate you?


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Banez' PF Tek For Beginners

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InvisibleKilroyMilosevik
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: Banez]
    #6574971 - 02/16/07 03:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

BINGO!! I hate texts for this exact reason and I flip on people who send em to me, regardless of what it was about. Not only that, but I get charged 10 cents a text... which is BULLSHIT! I didn't send a damn text! why the hell should I have to pay for it!?!?


--------------------
-The door.
-The door is closed.
-Why is the door closed?
        *Gasps*
-Why DOES the door close!?

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Offlinefunkyjunky
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam]
    #6575322 - 02/16/07 05:17 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I'd imagine the same technology used to scan phone calls for suspect words & phrases is used on text messages.


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Long Live the Shroomery
Peace

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InvisibleBoom
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam]
    #6575458 - 02/16/07 05:56 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I love texting though

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InvisibleS33D
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: Boom]
    #6575618 - 02/16/07 06:35 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Aww man now I gotta get out the aluminum hat! :shiftyeyes:


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If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit.
~Dr. Emmett Brown

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InvisibleS33D
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam]
    #6575689 - 02/16/07 06:51 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

http://news.com.com/Police+blotter+Judge+OKs+text+message+use+in+drug+case/2100-1030_3-6110525.html

Quote:

On Oct. 24, 2005, federal police raided a home on Potomac Drive in Fort Washington, Md.--just south of the Washington Beltway. They allegedly seized about 213 pounds of cocaine and about 6.5 pounds of crack cocaine. Antoine Jones and four other men were caught up in the raid.

The raid represented the culmination of an extensive amount of surveillance that the FBI and other federal police had conducted--both physical and electronic.

Part of the electronic surveillance was done by obtaining logs from two unnamed wireless providers. According to federal authorities, the logs contained archived text messages that were sent by Jones and alleged co-conspirator Lawrence Maynard.


In the words of the court: "On Aug. 10, 2005, and again on Aug. 18, 2005, Magistrate Judge Alan Kay issued search warrants to two electronic communication service providers for stored text messages that had been transmitted over cellular telephones used by Jones and Maynard."

Jones, who is awaiting trial on charges of conspiracy to distribute cocaine and use of a communication facility to traffic in drugs, filed a brief claiming that the search warrants violated the federal Wiretap Act.

Huvelle ruled on Aug. 10 that the search warrants were permissible "because the Wiretap Act does not apply to the government's acquisition of text messages held in storage at electronic communication service providers."

Translation: The Wiretap Act only applies to live intercepts, not archived e-mail or SMS messages. In general, a lower legal standard applies to archived messages. (As an aside, the government claims that technology to capture the contents of text messages had "only become available to law enforcement within recent weeks.")




WTF!:shiftyeyes:


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If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit.
~Dr. Emmett Brown

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InvisibleBoom
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: S33D]
    #6581712 - 02/18/07 02:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

ehh

you're sending messages over public frequencies (encrypted, but still).  Ya gotta be smart :shrug:

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Offlineconfusion
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: Boom]
    #6599213 - 02/22/07 07:39 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

5th amendment! Most phones don't have GPS , or they would charge you $200 extra for such a great feature.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: confusion]
    #6601963 - 02/23/07 12:41 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

It doesn't really matter if your phone has GPS because almost all areas are now equipped with the equipment to locate you. Just about everywhere has started charging a "911" tax for the purpose of raising the money to equip the local cell phone service with the capability to instantly locate the source of cell phone 911 calls.

If they've spent for the equipment I'm sure the gov will be using it for more than just 911 calls.


-FF

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InvisibleBoom
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred]
    #6602266 - 02/23/07 02:00 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I broke my phone, and wanted Verizon to activate my old one so I could use that. they apparently are not allowed to activate a phone without GPS in it anymore..

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: Boom] * 1
    #6604704 - 02/24/07 02:52 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Very few phones have GPS. They're still fairly expensive chips to put in a cheap cell phone. There's really no point anyways. You're almost always in range of at least two or three cell towers, so they can easily triangulate you. That's the basis of those 911 location systems. They don't rely on GPS to find you.

Verizon fed you some complete bullshit or else you misunderstood.


-FF

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Offlinetrent
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred]
    #6606712 - 02/24/07 08:17 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

so what is the best approach to handling text messages? ignore or flatly deny?

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InvisibleS33D
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: trent]
    #6608931 - 02/25/07 02:44 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Contact your service provider and have them block texting to your phone or just don't text incriminating info.


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If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit.
~Dr. Emmett Brown

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OfflineAmericaOnLSD
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam]
    #6609395 - 02/25/07 05:00 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Talk in person, outside, somewhere in the middle of nowhere, if you don't want your conversations monitored. If this is not practical, use one of the encrypted E-mail programs (derived from PGP or GPG). If used correctly, and assuming you don't have any spyware or other trojans on your computer, these are secure. Authorities can tell who you talk to but they will have no idea what you talk about.

AOLSD


--------------------
See AmericaOnLSD!

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Offlinededjam
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: trent]
    #6611788 - 02/26/07 08:22 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trent said:
so what is the best approach to handling text messages? ignore or flatly deny?




dont text. If people text you about drugs, tell them not too.Keep conversations about drugs as an in-person type thing. If you have something to talk to your dealer about...send them a text telling them to come over to your place.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam]
    #6613502 - 02/26/07 05:34 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Sad state today where everyone it tied to their cellphones. It makes it so easy for cops to bust you and put all your friends on their list.

You should never talk about business on a device that is broadcasting what you say over the air! Back in the day people realized this a little more. A modified scanner would pick up analog cellphones and your cordless is easy to pick up.

Most people don't realize that allmost every cordless phone on the market can easily be picked up by any scanner. Those 800mhz phones are easy to pick up and the 2.4 ghz phones only broadcast half the conversation at that frequency, the other half is 800mhz where it's easy to pick up. Also just because your phone has less than a block range it can be picked up by a scanner for several blocks.

At any given time I can pick up at least three phone conversations on my little handheld scanner. And I live in a fairly small town.

You should always talk in code. It's easy, even fun, and it makes you a hell of a lot safer.

Using phones that record a call log is just stupid. What do you think the first thing a cop does when they get your cell phone?

Whenever I call someone it's just to set up a time (not even a place) to talk with them. It should always be a place where you know to meet like "the same place as last time" or "I know where you're at." And when I get there I make it a point to say that my number better not still be on their caller ID.

"Have you seen Bud around lately?" Is a good one. "You know, Bud Green. (aka green, bud)."


-FF

Edited by fastfred (02/26/07 05:51 PM)

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Offlinededjam
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred] * 1
    #6615885 - 02/27/07 07:31 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Sad state today where everyone it tied to their cellphones. It makes it so easy for cops to bust you and put all your friends on their list.

You should never talk about business on a device that is broadcasting what you say over the air! Back in the day people realized this a little more. A modified scanner would pick up analog cellphones and your cordless is easy to pick up.

Most people don't realize that allmost every cordless phone on the market can easily be picked up by any scanner. Those 800mhz phones are easy to pick up and the 2.4 ghz phones only broadcast half the conversation at that frequency, the other half is 800mhz where it's easy to pick up. Also just because your phone has less than a block range it can be picked up by a scanner for several blocks.

At any given time I can pick up at least three phone conversations on my little handheld scanner. And I live in a fairly small town.

You should always talk in code. It's easy, even fun, and it makes you a hell of a lot safer.

Using phones that record a call log is just stupid. What do you think the first thing a cop does when they get your cell phone?

Whenever I call someone it's just to set up a time (not even a place) to talk with them. It should always be a place where you know to meet like "the same place as last time" or "I know where you're at." And when I get there I make it a point to say that my number better not still be on their caller ID.

"Have you seen Bud around lately?" Is a good one. "You know, Bud Green. (aka green, bud)."


-FF




Pigs arent stupid all the time. While code talk may make you feel cool, it doesnt mean they dont have a clue what you are talking about. If they are suspicious, they will be there. It may not be used against you in court because they cant prove what you meant, but it sure as hell can be used in an investigation. It will get you watched and followed, and then they can make the bust accordingly.

You started off great though...just dont "talk business" on any type of wireless device. Do dealings in person. Call someone and let them know a time, and have a place already set up from a previous meeting.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam] * 1
    #6623112 - 03/01/07 03:54 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

> While code talk may make you feel cool, it doesnt mean they dont have a clue what you are talking about.

Hopefully people realize that. If you have a clue though it isn't that hard to properly code talk. Slang drug terms obviously aren't going to help, and if you get all stupid with your code then the pigs will probably think that you're up to worse than you are.

Just don't be stupid and say some shit like "The sun is shining... but the ice is slippery." Doh!

Say something like "Have you seen Bud/Buddy/Mary around lately?" or "Hey, I need to pick up some greens/salad for dinner tonight, can you give me a lift to the store?"

Most of the code I used to use wasn't set up beforehand, just stuff like that which was usually easily understood by people I knew. Once your buddies catch on you can usually slip anything you want to convey into a non-suspicious conversation. "How's the weather," "What's the forecast for tomorrow?" etc. If you're just a little bit creative you can easily think of a ton more for every situation. If you set up a code word ahead of time it's even easier. We always called an ounce an "Oscar" in my day. It's pretty easy to ask someone "I'm looking for Oscar, have you seen him around?" It's also easy to answer that without sounding weird.

If you say something like "I need to find the duck with an umbrella," or "The falcon is in the air, but the snowman will melt in tomorrows sun," obviously that's just too stupid and you probably deserve to get busted.


-FF

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OfflineSchwip
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred]
    #6623201 - 03/01/07 05:03 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Back in the day(shit a good 10 years back now), we used to set code up before hand.

We used a beer analogy most of the time.

Wanna go grab a six pack(half), or a twelve pack(oz).....or on special occasions, pony keg(qp) or full keg (lb)....

Worked for our needs and provided a marginal degree of safety, even though the amounts were small and doubt we were ever watched :shrug:


--------------------
--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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OfflineOracleOfDelphi
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: confusion]
    #6634692 - 03/04/07 03:54 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

(this is in response to the GPS not being on most phones)
I dont know if thats true any more - there is a little icon on my LG3300vx (which is an old phone by todays standards) and it has a "feature" I cannot turn off - unless I turn it off, which I do unless Im expecting a call- that is called E911 - it is a GPS and caller ID wrapped into one - So if the phone is in the ON position, even if you are not on a call - you are still transmitting your location.

PS: Patriot Act eradicates your right to all freedoms we once thought were our birthright under the US Constitiution. I'd do some searching about the PA and see how bad it really is. <puts on tinfoil hat>


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Edited by OracleOfDelphi (03/04/07 03:55 PM)

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: OracleOfDelphi]
    #6634789 - 03/04/07 04:27 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

If they spent the cost to put a GPS chip in your phones you'd probably know about it because they would list it as a feature and you would be able to get your GPS coordinates off your phone.

The enhanced 911 locations services don't rely on GPS. It's equipment that the 911 centers and cell providers are upgrading to that allows them to quickly triangulate your signal for the alleged purpose of locating emergency calls.

The fact is that GPS chips or not, anytime your cellphone is on you can be quickly and easily located by your cell provider, and now the government. Even in the old days they could easily track you down to a "cell" that might cover an area of a couple square miles, or smaller if you live in a city.


-FF

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OfflineOracleOfDelphi
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred]
    #6635355 - 03/04/07 07:05 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:

The enhanced 911 locations services don't rely on GPS. It's equipment that the 911 centers and cell providers are upgrading to that allows them to quickly triangulate your signal for the alleged purpose of locating emergency calls.



-FF




thanks FF - didnt know the difference, and was pulling my 'info' from a past experience when I reported a huge fight by calling 911 - the Op called the Police, and the P O knew my tele # and a pretty good estimate(within 2 blocks) of where I was all in the time it took to connect and give my name.
<adjusts tin foil hat>
-OoD


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Offlineblizzietomyhiz
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: OracleOfDelphi]
    #6640854 - 03/06/07 10:07 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

crazy stuff

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OfflineChrisped
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: blizzietomyhiz]
    #6666985 - 03/13/07 10:52 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Telco industry..... little bit of software called "Legal Intercept" at the exchange. Big brother can listen in on anything they want - data, voice, whatever.....

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Offlinedjnoktirnal
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: confusion]
    #6681396 - 03/17/07 07:20 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

confusion said:
5th amendment! Most phones don't have GPS , or they would charge you $200 extra for such a great feature.




actually ALL mobile phones now contain a GPS unit by law. You can however set it to a 911 only mode so that it will only activate if you dial 911. If you have it set to ON all the time, you can be tracked by your provider for sure, and probably LEO.


--------------------
WWJDWWMD's?

What Would Jesus Do With Weapons of Mass Destruction?

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: djnoktirnal]
    #6682505 - 03/18/07 02:24 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Where? What law? I call bullshit.

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OfflineArtnotwar
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred]
    #6682643 - 03/18/07 05:26 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

about the sms thing. when i got arrested for 'use of a drug of independence' they took my phone, and came into the interview with a printed list of all the phone numbers in my phone, and messages that were deleated off my phone at leats 6 months prior to this incedent. if you save any dealers numbers make sure you save them to your phone not to your sim, because those ones were not printed on thier list. one of the messages included: "i'm pumped to do shrooms with ya now matty, well get some md and some meth, and we'll rush and peak for three days!" Fuck i just had to laugh when the police read that to me.
and on the code bullshit, do you think if the cops were sitting there tapping your calls and hearing 20 people a day call up and say the same shit over and over again, they wouldn't get a bit suspicious??? it doesn't matter how good you think your code is, you have to look at it from an outside perspective and think how stupid it sounds. it just doesn't work


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see,
and hear.
Since the initial publication of the charged electromagnetic spectrum, humans
learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear... is less than one
millionth of reality.
--------------------------------


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: Artnotwar]
    #6684010 - 03/18/07 03:03 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

> if you save any dealers numbers make sure you save them to your phone not to your sim

If you save numbers to your sim you can always take it out and snap it in half pretty easily. If the cops had done a good job they would have gotten all the numbers in your phone too. There's a good chance that after finding all that shit on your sim they probably went back and pulled stuff from your phone.

> Fuck i just had to laugh when the police read that to me.

He who laughs last laughs loudest... and I have a feeling that it's not going to be you.

> and on the code bullshit, do you think if the cops were sitting there tapping your calls and hearing 20 people a day call up and say the same shit over and over again, they wouldn't get a bit suspicious?

If they're tapping all your calls you're already fucked if you don't change your ways real quick. To get a wiretap order they usually already have you with some serious offense. Obviously, being smart about what you say isn't going to help you if they've already got a wiretap and you're making 20 deals a day. But it might save quite a few of your buddies.

> it doesn't matter how good you think your code is, you have to look at it from an outside perspective and think how stupid it sounds. it just doesn't work

You're the perfect example of how non-stupid it is. With that one stupid message they've tied you and your buddy to shrooms, weed, and meth. Maybe you don't even realize it, but that one message is enough to get wiretaps on you and your buddy, and it's pretty sure that everyone who was in your phone is now flagged or on a list.

If you're smart about what you say it should come off as pretty non-suspicious. Even if it is suspicious it's still a long way from being as bad as being directly being tied to meth.

I mean take a look at your situation! No matter how suspicious it sounded I'd far rather be tied to vegetables, a pack of bud light, and some coffee rather than be directly tied to shrooms, weed, and meth.

Can't you see the difference? With your message they can go straight to a judge and get a search warrant or wiretap with no problem. With a message I would have used they would be laughed out of court.

So the cops now know that you and your buddy use and buy/sell three different illegal drugs, one of which is highly serious and probably has it's own task force who will be watching you. If you would have been smart you would have avoided that. #1 you should know to stay away from text messages, because that's just the same as recording and saving incriminating evidence against yourself. #2 you should know better than to ever say anything that would directly, in and of itself, be enough to get you flagged, on lists, and wiretapped.

You broke both rules, and as a result they ended up with printed evidence of you being involved in a drug deal or at least use. If you would have simply said the same thing in the phone they probably wouldn't have a printed record of it. If you would have avoided the text and used some code then you wouldn't have ended up in the same situation even if they had you tapped or were illegally listening in on your call.


-FF

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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred]
    #6687069 - 03/19/07 01:21 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

fuck cell phones

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OfflineArtnotwar
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dsa]
    #6690625 - 03/20/07 06:33 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

well considering it was like three years ago and i still havn't been busted for anything i don't think they really cared about the stupid messages. all i said is that he was talking shit. and also i had pictures of bundles of $50 notes and pictures of thousands of pills in my phone and all i got done for was telling them that i took GHB the night before. i didn't have to tell them, i was just being honest. i don't know where youre from but from what i have experienced here in australia the cops are pretty fuckin layed back about drugs. so in the end yeah i had the last laugh


--------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Until the 20th century, reality was everything humans could touch, smell, see,
and hear.
Since the initial publication of the charged electromagnetic spectrum, humans
learned that what they can touch, smell, see, and hear... is less than one
millionth of reality.
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: Artnotwar]
    #6701271 - 03/22/07 10:20 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

One thing though.. texts are safer because legally speaking they don't mean anything. Anyone can type the message on your phone, they have no way of knowing that it was specifically you who typed it - unlike a voice recording which can be voice printed.

You could walk up to a cop and scream "I'M SELLING WEED!" at his face and he can't do anything. Text messages alone won't get you busted. There has to be something else.. at which point it will become evidence (and in some states, a charge in itself).


--------------------


You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson

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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: wiggles]
    #6701280 - 03/22/07 10:22 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wiggles said:
You could walk up to a cop and scream "I'M SELLING WEED!" at his face and he can't do anything.




He'd fuck with you

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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: wiggles]
    #6702156 - 03/23/07 06:56 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wiggles said:
One thing though.. texts are safer because legally speaking they don't mean anything. Anyone can type the message on your phone, they have no way of knowing that it was specifically you who typed it - unlike a voice recording which can be voice printed.

You could walk up to a cop and scream "I'M SELLING WEED!" at his face and he can't do anything. Text messages alone won't get you busted. There has to be something else.. at which point it will become evidence (and in some states, a charge in itself).




OMG, please stop posting if you dont know what the hell you are talking about, you could seriously get someone fucked up.

No, text messages alone arent going to get you convicted, I think any idiot understands that. However, they will get warrants, they will cause you to lose your privacy, they will open you up to further investigation...in all, they can still really fuck you over.

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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: dedjam]
    #6705005 - 03/24/07 12:18 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

gopenguins said:
Quote:

wiggles said:
One thing though.. texts are safer because legally speaking they don't mean anything. Anyone can type the message on your phone, they have no way of knowing that it was specifically you who typed it - unlike a voice recording which can be voice printed.

You could walk up to a cop and scream "I'M SELLING WEED!" at his face and he can't do anything. Text messages alone won't get you busted. There has to be something else.. at which point it will become evidence (and in some states, a charge in itself).




OMG, please stop posting if you dont know what the hell you are talking about, you could seriously get someone fucked up.

No, text messages alone arent going to get you convicted, I think any idiot understands that. However, they will get warrants, they will cause you to lose your privacy, they will open you up to further investigation...in all, they can still really fuck you over.




Considering I used to work at a defense law firm, I'd like to ask how you figure? Since you apparently are a law guru, check up on lexis nexis and see how right you are about text messages being the sole purpose for obtaining a warrant. What, don't know what lexisnexis is? Then don't tell me I don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

The fact is, they can not get a warrant because of text messages for the very reason mentioned above. Also, simply stating something in a text message is not going to be enough to get a judge to sign off on a warrant because there's no substantive evidence. To get a warrant, there has to be something physical involved in MOST cases (ie: they've scoped your house for some period of time, seen people walk in an dout constantly, pulled one over and found pot, etc).

The only other way would be POSSIBLY if the text message described the exact location of contraband, like "in the top drawer in the third floor bedroom in the house located at XXX snooker st," but even so, at that point for them to be looking at your text messages, you're probobly already screwed.

Otherwise a judge would just ask "How do you know they're not acting out a play?" Then he would snub you, and say "It looks suspiscious, but we can't act on suspiscion alone."

However, if you do get caught doing something and have a cell phone that you've used to text people with you're pretty well fucked. So its a risk either way, but texting along won't get you nailed.


--------------------


You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson

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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: wiggles]
    #6707839 - 03/24/07 10:39 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

> The fact is, they can not get a warrant because of text messages for the very reason mentioned above.

Wow, you really don't seem to have a clue what you're talking about. They would EASILY get a warrant if they legally obtained an incriminating text message and brought it before a judge.

> Otherwise a judge would just ask "How do you know they're not acting out a play?"

Have you ever actually been in a court or even watched any legal shows on TV?

First off, they would get the warrant. And when you say "I was acting out a play your honor, you shouldn't have issued the search warrant," the judge and jury will laugh long and hard at you. How the fuck do you act out a play over text messages anyway? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.

> You could walk up to a cop and scream "I'M SELLING WEED!" at his face and he can't do anything.

Again you have no clue. If you said that to a cop he'd either tell you to F off or else he would immediately search you. If he wanted to be a real dick he'd arrest you and take you to jail for a full body cavity search.

Telling a cop that you are committing a crime obviously gives them probable cause to suspect that you are committing a crime. They can really screw you over for something like that. You could be arrested and strip searched. If the prosecutor wanted to they could charge you with distribution even if they found nothing. Then you would be in court spending a lot of cash in legal fees to argue that the "confession" should be thrown out because you weren't mirandized at the time. They could also charge you with obstructing justice since you wasted a cops time who otherwise would have been out doing his job.


Don't screw people over by giving out bunk advice. Someone could get really screwed if they were dumb enough to believe you. If you want to argue the point then you better have a Lexis or Westlaw citation to back up your BS.


-FF

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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred]
    #6726400 - 03/29/07 09:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Seriously.

You can not be searched simply because you say something. In fact, funny enough, there's an episode of cops in which an officer gets called by a girl who reports that she got ripped off by a crack dealer when she attempted to buy crack (yes, they are stupid). However neither one was visibly intoxicated. The officer says in slow, simple words that even someone like you can understand, "you cannot arrest someone simply because they state that they were attempting to posess drugs, or claim to be selling drugs." He goes on to add that the dea then surveilled the house and actually gathered REAL evidence and brought down the dealer. But uttering that she was a dealer was not enough to arrest. But hey, what does a cop know, right? I mean he must be clueless, since apparently you're a legal expert.

Look it up.

Its not nearly as easy to get a warrant as you think it is, and until you start showing some legal credentials before you spout off about knowing so much, I think we'd be best off to ignore you. You're well intentioned, but you're not in nearly so much danger as you think you are.

And if you have a text message, you could say you were in a play, or you could say your friend used the phone. In fact, were you to say your friend used the phone, then that could make you an accessory. However, the friend is not charged, and its doubtful they have evidence, so theres no way they could make it stick. It would not go to a jury, because the DA would probobly know better than to chance it. He'd probobly try to scare the guy into bargaining, knowing that a bluff is his only chance.


--------------------


You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: wiggles]
    #6727134 - 03/30/07 04:57 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Its after they have the warrant, or when your involved in a court case where this shit will come into play most of the time.

Try explaining your incriminating text messages to a jury or judge.


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" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: Schwip]
    #6728794 - 03/30/07 04:16 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

> You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Seriously.

It's you that doesn't seem to know what you're talking about. Once you have a few interactions with the law you'll know better.

All they need to arrest you is probable cause that you committed a crime. Telling them that you committed a crime gives them that probable cause. I can't put it any simpler than that.

I think you are confused by the fact that you can't be convicted solely by your own testimony. If you turn yourself in for killing somebody but they can't find the body or the weapon or any blood and nobody is missing then they can't convict you for murder based solely on your confession. They need at least some small bit of evidence before they can convict you. But they sure as hell can and will arrest you and keep you locked up until they complete the investigation.

In a lot of situations they may know that they won't, or didn't, find any evidence so they know there won't be any charges and might not arrest you.

> Its not nearly as easy to get a warrant as you think it is,

The hell it isn't! All they need is probable cause. If they can show that a drug deal went down over your phone then they've just shown that there is cause to believe that you probably committed a crime. Then they get their warrant.

It's not at all hard to get a warrant. Just about any good piece of evidence will get them a warrant.

In the situation you're talking about there are plenty of reasons to arrest you. First off telling them that you're committing crimes gives them probable cause to suspect that you are. When they search you and find nothing they could still arrest you and drag you down to jail and strip search you. If they find nothing they can still charge you with any number of crimes, such as obstruction of justice, disorderly conduct, interfering with a peace officer, falsely reporting a crime, etc.

Just because you once saw something on "COPS" doesn't mean that you know jack about the law. So please stop advising people to go up to cops and confess to crimes. Because not only is that about the dumbest thing you could possibly do, it's also a crime in itself.

If you still somehow think that you know what you're talking about then I suggest that you get a camera and try this out yourself. Put it on youtube and post the link here. I'm sure all the members will get a great kick out of seeing you get hauled off in handcuffs.


-FF

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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: fastfred]
    #6729574 - 03/30/07 08:36 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Believe what you want, this is like talking to a wall. I'm done until you start using proper legal lexicon to show me that you genuinely understand how law works. I have experience in the legal system, working in a criminal defense firm. Apparently I knew enough to keep from getting arrested... but hey, I don't know what I'm talking about.

It would not give probable cause. THe first thing a decent attorney would say to such a claim is that any person could have typed the text message. They have no hard evidence tying it to you - UNLIKE a voice print which can clearly denote a person's identity. An officer knows this. It could give him reasonable suspicion, but that wouldn't give him the ability to search you, nor would it give him the ability to arrest you.

Even if it gave probable cause, it is not enough evidence to convict. As an example, hearsay is considered probable cause evidence, and yet is completely inadmissable in court as evidence. There are levels to measure the amount of warrant an officer has, and that translates into whether you experience a "mere encounter," a terry stop, or a custodial situation.

I'm done here. Listen to whatever you want and believe what you want.


--------------------


You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.
Hunter S. Thompson

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Re: You may know this...STAY AWAY FROM TXT MESSAGES [Re: wiggles]
    #6732578 - 03/31/07 06:35 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

wiggles said:
Believe what you want, this is like talking to a wall.




As well it should be, no one should be listening to the crap your telling them.

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Offlinemalcom43
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Ya'll be just as dumb as the other guy [Re: dedjam]
    #6734799 - 04/01/07 12:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

You guys are both stupid and use the same source-less claims to attack each other.

Problems w/ cell phones, text mssg's:

1. Can be seized incident to search OR arrest, esp a drug-related arrest, whether or not there is an arrest/ search warrant (i.e. You can be arrested and jailed for a 26 in a 25 speeding ticket in some states- at po po's discretion.) See: United States v. Lazcano-Villalobos, 175 F.3d 838, 844 (10th Cir. 1999)[regarding the seizure of the phone, not the speeding arrest, though I can provide citations for that if ya'll want and I get around to it.]

2. The records of the tower's transmissions easily establish what handset sent the message and when, verifying any data recovered from the phone.

3. Text messages stored by the service provider can be seized via warrant, and such does not need to meet the heightened standards (Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986) required for an actual wiretap. See: United States v. Steiger, 318 F.3d 1039, 1048-49 (11th Cir. 2003)

4. Once obtained (through an informant, annonomys tip, warrant), the content of the text messages are sufficient to allow warrants to issue to the service provider housing information related to the text messages. See: USA v. Jones; 451 F. Supp. 2d 71; (D.C.-2006)

Edited by malcom43 (04/01/07 12:58 PM)

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Offlinemalcom43
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wiggles misses the point [Re: malcom43]
    #6734820 - 04/01/07 01:03 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Wiggles,

If you get your rights violated its a crapshoot that you'll see the misteps corrected within a reasonable amount of time.

Even if the cops do break the law, you wanna lose your job, money, whatever the cops seize, and possibly sit in jail for years before the appealatte courts see the case?

Once the cops start looking at you , it's a huge impact on your life and freedom wheather or not you are ever convicted or charged.

You strike me as naive, but maybe you're just being a devil's advocate or something.

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Re: Ya'll be just as dumb as the other guy [Re: malcom43]
    #6737274 - 04/02/07 06:48 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

malcom43 said:
You guys are both stupid and use the same source-less claims to attack each other.

Problems w/ cell phones, text mssg's:

1. Can be seized incident to search OR arrest, esp a drug-related arrest, whether or not there is an arrest/ search warrant (i.e. You can be arrested and jailed for a 26 in a 25 speeding ticket in some states- at po po's discretion.) See: United States v. Lazcano-Villalobos, 175 F.3d 838, 844 (10th Cir. 1999)[regarding the seizure of the phone, not the speeding arrest, though I can provide citations for that if ya'll want and I get around to it.]

2. The records of the tower's transmissions easily establish what handset sent the message and when, verifying any data recovered from the phone.

3. Text messages stored by the service provider can be seized via warrant, and such does not need to meet the heightened standards (Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986) required for an actual wiretap. See: United States v. Steiger, 318 F.3d 1039, 1048-49 (11th Cir. 2003)

4. Once obtained (through an informant, annonomys tip, warrant), the content of the text messages are sufficient to allow warrants to issue to the service provider housing information related to the text messages. See: USA v. Jones; 451 F. Supp. 2d 71; (D.C.-2006)




Yes. Actual judicial precedents! Good post.


--------------------
--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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