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jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: badchad]
#6547761 - 02/09/07 02:28 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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Why aren't you all complaining about chocolate and coffee. I know it's not the same amount of caffeine, but people (especially here in college) drink RIDICULOUS amounts of coffee. Or how about Nodoz? I can walk into the school bookstore and they sell them at the front counter. Seriously, "regulating" stuff like this is unnecessarily stupid, hell, lets not let people drive until they're 21, since most car accidents involve new teen drivers.
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theduke
Metal Mushie


Registered: 12/21/05
Posts: 106
Loc: Middle of Nowhere
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: badchad]
#6547774 - 02/09/07 02:32 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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With the exception of some foreign-produced energy drinks, I believe that the caffeine contents of these drinks are available either online or through request. In other words, they may not include it on the label, but it's still publicly available information, which makes these people responsible for their own actions. Besides, why would you ingest one (or more) of these products that are marketed with "XTREME ENERGY!" in mind if you have any doubts about your ability to handle it?
It's not the government's place to regulate these products. Public awareness is important, but that will rise on its own due to stories like this. Companies like Coca-Cola and whoever makes Red Bull will find it in their own best interest to make their products safe and perhaps even go so far as to label their shit in order to cover their own asses and not harm their consumer base or garner negative PR.
Laws like forcing companies to include this stuff on their labels, or the one being discussed in NY now (about illegalizing talking on cell phones while crossing the street) contribute to a society where people are more than happy to sacrifice personal freedoms and responsibility for a morsel of safety. It's bullshit, and goes against everything this country was founded on. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not be coddled.
Edited by theduke (02/09/07 02:35 PM)
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Cloud9
I don't feel, and it feels great



Registered: 07/03/03
Posts: 1,554
Loc: between here and there
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: dedjam]
#6547892 - 02/09/07 03:07 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
gopenguins said: Educate dont regulate. Its not the governments job to tell me what I can put in my body. If I want to eat poison, then so be it. The only regulations should be on the part of the manufacturer...and they should be required to inform the end customer of what they are buying. I shouldnt have to pay the price of my freedom because some idiot is to lazy to research what they put into their body.
By saying you want the government to regulate what is on the shelves, you are saying that what is put into our bodies should be regulated. YOu are having the government MAKE the decision for me. What justice does that server? Humans have evolved to this point through trial and error...someone fucks up and dies, those around him learn not to do what he did...and thus knowledge is born. Smart people make good decisons, idiots make bad ones. I'm pretty sure we all understand evolution, are you now saying that survival of the fittest shouldnt exist?
The drug war is not irrelevant because you already put yourself on the slipper slope. You are giving power to regulate, with that power comes more power. Thats how we got to this situation in the first place.
Im sorry but I am all for LESS government not MORE. If I NEED the government to keep me from doing something stupid, or eating something stupid that endangers my life then I am a failure as a human and dont deserve my life. I am not fit to survive.
Maybe if we start letting those not fit for survival to die off, instead of the government stepping in and saving them, then we can truly advance as a race. It seems we are trying to circumvent evolution, but we cant...we evolved to this human stage, and we will evolve past it...with those fit to survive in society going further and those to ignorant with thier own lives dying off.
great post.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: badchad]
#6547945 - 02/09/07 03:18 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said: There has to be some sort of balance between freedom and government intervention. I don't think many would like to live in a complete state of anarchy.
That being said, the intervention needed for these energy drinks is a disclosure on the amount of caffeine present. It is nearly impossible to how much caffeine is present in a drink. Unfortunately, the companies do not have to disclose this information because it is a "proprietary secret".
To me, marketing a substance with enormous amounts of caffeine without any indication of how much caffeine is present is ridiculous.
How can people take responsibility for their ingestion of caffeine if they don't know how much they are consuming?
Exactly ^^^^
Everyone freaks out when we talk about implementing more government regulations. Gov't regulations ensure that you have a list of all ingredients in every food product; are they "holding our hands" by doing this? People with severe allergies, or those who do give a shit what they eat are probably grateful for this regulation. Sometimes government regs actually make sense!
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,373
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: WhiskeyClone]
#6548009 - 02/09/07 03:39 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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I wouldn't be against labeling of caffeine content in coffee products. Unfortunately, brewed coffee varies enormously in caffeine content, making a listing difficult. Further, most people are familiar with the caffeine content in coffee and know what to expect.
This is contrast to the relatively new "fad" of the energy drink (which, arguably begain with the release of Red Bull, around 1997). People simply aren't familiar with the high levels of caffeine in them. Perhaps it is their own "stupidity" but not everyone will associte a "performance enhancing" drink with caffeine. There are plenty of traditional sports drinks without caffeine (e.g. Gatorade).
Again, the main argument is for labeling of caffeine content, which is not always available. For instance, look at "Monster Energy Drink".
http://www.monsterenergy.com/product/energy.php#
What you see is the product info for an 8 oz. drink, so multiply the values by 3 for the 24 oz. version. Can someone tell me how much caffeine is present?
I see a listing for 7500 mg of an "energy blend". Clearly, this drink does not contain 7500mg of caffeine, so how much does it have?
Call coca cola, they will tell you its a "proprietary secret". Add all this to an aggressive marketing scheme to kids to drink it for a "buzz" and its a recipe for disaster.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
Edited by badchad (02/09/07 03:41 PM)
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odd_one
Friendly


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 48
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: Cloud9]
#6548015 - 02/09/07 03:42 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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That's fine. I respect everyone's opinions. Although, I don't like when people exaggerate and put words into my mouth. I'm all for freedom just as much as the next guy, but I do think there needs to be some form of governing. I'm sorry to say, but humans are not capable of living with complete freedom. I would love to think that we are capable. I have dreams too, but thats all that they are... dreams.
Let's totally do away with all governments around the world and see what happens. The world would be in even more chaos than it is now. I do think that governments overstep their boundaries a lot, but not all government is bad. I think I was a bit haste in saying that energy drinks should be illegal to anyone under 18, but I do think that the dangerous ingredients should be regulated.
What happens if a kid goes into the store and buys a bunch of cans without his parents knowledge and then proceeds to drink one after another, not knowing what they are, and he drops dead from a heart attack? If the ingredients were regulated and warning labels were actually big, clear, readable, maybe that kid wouldn't have died. But I suppose some would just say, "Hey, that's the kid's dumb fault. Population control." Well, some may be that cynical and heartless, but I am not. I actually care about human life.
But what do I know? I don't know everything like some do.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: SDP]
#6548423 - 02/09/07 06:32 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
SDP said: Don't make the chemicals illegal. You want some caffeine + taruine? Make a drink yourself. Want it pre-made? Buy one that been "regulated" with dosage so it WONT GIVE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE THAT TAKE IT A HEART ATTACK!
I think your arguement is faulty. Considering how many cans of energy drinks must be sold for the market to be worth over $5 billion, it would seem that heart attacks and other health problems related with the body's intake of such product is limited. Do you, perhaps, have a % to reflect those who have had health problems compared to the total amount of users?
Education and parenting need to be developed, not legislation.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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WhiskeyClone
Not here


Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: odd_one]
#6548443 - 02/09/07 06:39 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
odd_one said: I'm all for freedom just as much as the next guy, but I do think there needs to be some form of governing. I'm sorry to say, but humans are not capable of living with complete freedom.
Hehe... someone needed to say it.
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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entheodome
Stranger


Registered: 01/12/07
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Loc: http://www.shroomery.org/...
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: fireworks_god]
#6548489 - 02/09/07 06:54 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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i think this is the users fault! i understand that the fda does not require a company to tell how much caffeine mgs per serving which is lame for the fda to do.on the other hand .try asking the guy selling the mushies to tell you how much psilocin is in this shroom? how fucked up will this get me? this is impossible for another to percieve so people need to think in this situation before they drink. if someone knows caffeine is a drug to wake up and this is why the guy bought it.he needs to not look at it like a red bull as one here just doesn't get some shrooms and eat them all down thinking they will be the same as the rest.well,i'm sure some do.
-------------------- when you become one with nature,nature becomes one with you.if you never try it you will never know the truth!
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: entheodome]
#6548542 - 02/09/07 07:12 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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Are you sure about that not being required to display how much caffiene is in a product?
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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odd_one
Friendly


Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 48
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: fireworks_god]
#6548715 - 02/09/07 08:16 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Are you sure about that not being required to display how much caffiene is in a product?
Look on any bottle or can of pop. All it says is whether it has caffeine in it or not. Nowhere does it display the amount.
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Ojom
member



Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 2,148
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: fireworks_god]
#6548853 - 02/09/07 09:27 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Are you sure about that not being required to display how much caffiene is in a product?
My point exactly. One would think this would already be required, but its not...
Some products do already list their caffeine content. I have a 16 oz can of Rockstar Energy Drink here that says it contains 160 mg of caffeine for 16 oz. However it likely contains more caffeine than that as it also contains 50 mg of Guarana Seed Extract which also contains caffeine.
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trippindad82
Trusted Cultivator of Trich


Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,087
Loc: down, down the hole
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: Cloud9]
#6548896 - 02/09/07 09:47 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cloud9 said:
Quote:
gopenguins said: Educate dont regulate. Its not the governments job to tell me what I can put in my body. If I want to eat poison, then so be it. The only regulations should be on the part of the manufacturer...and they should be required to inform the end customer of what they are buying. I shouldnt have to pay the price of my freedom because some idiot is to lazy to research what they put into their body.
By saying you want the government to regulate what is on the shelves, you are saying that what is put into our bodies should be regulated. YOu are having the government MAKE the decision for me. What justice does that server? Humans have evolved to this point through trial and error...someone fucks up and dies, those around him learn not to do what he did...and thus knowledge is born. Smart people make good decisons, idiots make bad ones. I'm pretty sure we all understand evolution, are you now saying that survival of the fittest shouldnt exist?
The drug war is not irrelevant because you already put yourself on the slipper slope. You are giving power to regulate, with that power comes more power. Thats how we got to this situation in the first place.
Im sorry but I am all for LESS government not MORE. If I NEED the government to keep me from doing something stupid, or eating something stupid that endangers my life then I am a failure as a human and dont deserve my life. I am not fit to survive.
Maybe if we start letting those not fit for survival to die off, instead of the government stepping in and saving them, then we can truly advance as a race. It seems we are trying to circumvent evolution, but we cant...we evolved to this human stage, and we will evolve past it...with those fit to survive in society going further and those to ignorant with thier own lives dying off.
great post.

I believe 150% in survival of the fittest. If you aren't smart enough to educate yourself about a substance (such as READING THE LABEL) you are about to ingest, you are stupid enough to deal with the consequences. I believe in requiring labels that educate the persons purchasing a product, but I do not believe in laws regulating a substance. It is MY body. I should be free to do what I want with MY body. Just because YOU are too STUPID and kill yourself doesn't mean that I should have to give up MY RIGHTS to free judgment?
-------------------- Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to blind person who has never seen a horse. ^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^ --------------------------------------
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: veggie]
#6548964 - 02/09/07 10:11 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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Imma a caffeine addict from way back, but 250 Mgs of it in one drink is waaaaaaay too much. That's like a half a pot of coffee.
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odd_one
Friendly


Registered: 02/03/07
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: trippindad82]
#6549023 - 02/09/07 10:32 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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For a bunch of enlightened people, some of you are very selfish. It seems your mantra is "I want total freedom. Fuck everyone else." Apparently, you've never heard of forgiveness either.
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deucydoo
Endless Tinkerer

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 41
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: odd_one]
#6549081 - 02/09/07 10:50 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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its true, knowing how much caffeine is in something would keep some people out of the hospital. but, there are those who will still not head any warnings and keep drinking. this in my eyes is natural selection. the strong and smart survive. its a crud manor to teach and often times a very hard lesson when learned, none the less its the way things go. as others have pointed out this isn't the only thing out there that can hurt you when u take it. remember ephedra (sp?) along with caffeine and one other chemical it made up one of the Most effective over the counter fat burners, with a "few MINOR" side effects.
-------------------- I have been there and back, although it was somthing i had to do i dont recomend it for others, at least not with my travel agent.
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Divided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: odd_one]
#6549091 - 02/09/07 10:52 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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I just think it's fucked that all the worst drugs are legal. Pretty much all speed, even meth is Schedule II as is PCP. Vicodin, oxycodone, etc. are all addictive opiates. And now people are trying to make crack-in-a-can with caffiene and taurine. Not only are they selling a shitty kind of drug, but they are selling the shittiest kind. They might as well put Adderral in drinks or something, it would probobly be safer.
And then of course pot, lsd and MDMA, which aren't that toxic and aren't even addictive, are all considered the WORST drugs by the gov't. It's pretty weird.
-------------------- 1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..." 2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..." 3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."
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trippindad82
Trusted Cultivator of Trich


Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,087
Loc: down, down the hole
Last seen: 11 years, 1 day
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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: odd_one]
#6549143 - 02/09/07 11:06 PM (17 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
odd_one said: For a bunch of enlightened people, some of you are very selfish. It seems your mantra is "I want total freedom. Fuck everyone else." Apparently, you've never heard of forgiveness either.
Enlightenment has taught me that there is a balance in nature. Part of that balance is survival of the fittest. I personally choose to take a more organic and "pure" or "natural" approach to life. I can't wait to read about someone who gets colon cancer from his 2lb a week red meat diet and tries to sue the beef industry when all available evidence provides proof that his diet that he CHOSE to eat is what gave him said problem. If someone told you to drink a 12 pack and go for a drive "cause the buzz mellows you out and makes you a better driver", would you jump up and go do it? Probably not since you have been properly educated not to do so. Labels are a good thing. Regulation is not. If there is a label on something, and I don't like what it says, I can CHOOSE to not ingest. If someone else wants to drink it, don't let my decisions become law. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and life. If a govt can control what I am allowed to eat/drink/smoke, what is the next step? We have already seen that freedom of speech no longer exists because someone who CHOSE to listen to me was offended. If you don't like what is going on, then stay away from it. Keep your kids educated as you'd like and away from it. Don't ask someone else to regulate it for you because you personally are too lazy to take care of yourself/loved ones. As long as what I do to myself has no direct harm on someone else, I should be able to do as I please. Keep it humane. I agree with the 10 commandments and other simple rules as such. They keep life free and simple. You don't need anymore rules or laws than that. People should be free to do as they please, as long as no harm or foul play ensues. (then they would have broken one or more of the ten laws...I'm not christian, I just believe that all religions have some truth and good to them, as long as you only listen to the pure messages taught, not the rituals and bullshit that have stemmed from them)
-------------------- Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to blind person who has never seen a horse. ^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^ --------------------------------------
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entheodome
Stranger


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Re: Energy drinks' caffeine buzz can land the unwary in the ER [Re: fireworks_god]
#6551814 - 02/10/07 07:09 PM (17 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Are you sure about that not being required to display how much caffiene is in a product?
not positive but i have never seen a mgs. per serving of caffeine on a coffee container and i once looked on a friends redbull can recently just to see.i am caffeine sensitive so i was interested.not on a monster either,just looked.
-------------------- when you become one with nature,nature becomes one with you.if you never try it you will never know the truth!
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