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donkers5257
Grand Inquisitor
Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 52
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Apartment raided
#6550621 - 02/10/07 01:14 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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There was nothing at all suspicious or illegal in my apartment. But it made me think about a legal issue.
I left town for two days and the girl next door to me had her circuit breaker trip several times. Rather than her maybe take a few appliances off that circuit and move them, she called the front office to complain. Keep in mind, she didn't know what was causing it. But the front office sent somebody up to MY apartment, ENTERED, and took a look around to see if anything in my apartment my be causing it. Without the 24-hour required written notice. Without even attempting to contact me. They snooped all over and found that the ONLY thing I had plugged into that wall adjacent to hers was a space heater. They decided my ONE appliance was what was tripping the breaker (nah, couldn't be her refrigerator, coffee pot, stero, television, hairdryer, or whatverelse she has plugged in)
This pisses me off. They had no right to enter my apartment without notice or permission. But what troubles me is, what if I *would* have had something in my apartment? Police aren't allowed to enter a premises without a warrant but would an illegal inspection by a landlord be admissible for them to give a warrant or probable cause? I'm thinking about either suing or using the landlord's infraction to get me out of my 11-month contract and move. I say fuck them. I pay too damn much for this apartment as it is and if they're violating tenant's rights, that's breech of contract and I have the right to go elsewhere.
Edit: But the point, again, is IF I would have something in my apartment and the landlord found it on an *illegal* inspection, would law enforcement be able to pursue it? I know the landlord could throw me out but would there be legal action?
Edited by donkers5257 (02/10/07 01:18 PM)
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MistaUNGA
green crack GREEN CRACK!!



Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Kalifornien, im Süden...
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Quote:
donkers5257 said: I say fuck them. I pay too damn much for this apartment as it is and if they're violating tenant's rights, that's breech of contract and I have the right to go elsewhere.
agreed
--------------------
Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!
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Mezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
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Probably the lease includes a stipulation that they can enter to assess anything like an "emergency". To get a real answer you'll need to take your lease to a lawyer and have them take a look at it.
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royer
±±±±±±±±±±

Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 4,801
Loc: anywhere but here
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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i lived in a place where they did this all the time. i had to get a safe and keep my pipe and bud in the safe. i was 20 years old at the time and they seen an alcohol bottle and they said if they see me drinking or drunk that i will be arrested and evicted.
i was pissed because i was not harming nobody having a drink after working 12--14 hours a day. also i was an insomniac so i took a hit or 2 before i went to bed and i got a few hours sleep.
anyway me and my girlfriend were playing around and she was laughing and yelling stop, so the apt manager was outside the door and called the police.
they came in there was a beer on the coffee table and my breath smelled like the one beer i just got done drinking and i got popped with underage drinking and got evicted.
the apt manager was very nice to me before she came in and seen a few alcohol bottles on the table while i was at work ((((without notice)))), then she had it out for me.
it sucks to live in a place like that because they can always find a way to justify coming in. if you read your lease good there is most likely something in there that says if there is urgent maintenance problem or emergency that they may enter with out notice. also some people lease also says landlord may make surprise unauthorized inspections. which sucks
-------------------- ================================================= if you have any questions please feel free to pm me , thx :-)
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
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raided?
where in your lease does it mention the 24 hour thing and what exactly does it say? you might be able to get something out of them as compensation for the intrusion if it's actually against the conditions of your lease.
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Banez
Stranger


Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 15,181
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: royer]
#6550844 - 02/10/07 02:22 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah generally the landlord can come over for any reason and get into your place.. its usually not mandatory for them to give you 24 hour notice..
i know our landlord would just show up whenever he felt like it... he never would enter if we werent home, but then again it wasnt electrical related.. now the repair guy would enter when we werent home to do any repairs that needed done.
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donkers5257
Grand Inquisitor
Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 52
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: wilshire]
#6550948 - 02/10/07 03:07 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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It says the landlord may enter the tenant's premises for maintenance inspection upon 24-48 hours written notice.
It says nothing about emergency conditions. And I hardly think a tripped breaker is an emergency anyway. Besides, they have all of my contact info on file. They seem to have no problem calling my cell when I'm a day late with rent or when they want to complain about my water usage. So why not call me and ASKING me what I have plugged in instead of sending some maintenance guy up poking around my apartment. I've got a lot of valuable shit up here. $2000 computer set up, $1000 guitar, $800 amp, $600 LCD TV... my coveted espresso maker... The should have at least attempted to contact me about it.
What scared me about it was that the space heater was set up to test if I could hold a closet steady at 80 F (gee wonder why?)... if they'd checked in a week or two, who knows what they woulda found?
Which is part 2 of my question... if the landlord/maintenance *were* to find something of questionable legality while violating a tenant's privacy rights, would their search be grounds for the police to investigate/press charges?
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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Which is part 2 of my question... if the landlord/maintenance *were* to find something of questionable legality while violating a tenant's privacy rights, would their search be grounds for the police to investigate/press charges?
yes, definitely. the 4th amendment applies only to police searches. even if your home is burglarized and they nab the guy and he tells them about your grow, they can get a warrant. this is why it is so important to lock it up. put your grow in a secure container. also, i've always been against the idea of having an electrical wire leading to your grow, especially if you rent. incubators don't really help enough to be worth the extra exposure IMO.
the ideal grow concealment, especially while renting, is a completely self-contained, secure locked box that you open only to fan and illuminate briefly a few times a day during fruiting.
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Lana
Head Banana


Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 3,109
Loc: www.MycoSupply.com
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If you want them to think twice before coming into your place again try this...
Call your landlord and tell him that since he entered your apartment, your TV, stereo, etc (pick a high ticket item) won't work.
Explain that it worked before he came into your place. Then proceed to tell him that you're going to hold him liable for the TV (or whatever high ticket item you have).
Most people don't care about idle threats, but once you go after their pocketbook, their ears perk up
Lana
-------------------- Myco Supply - Distributors of Mycological Products http://www.MycoSupply.com The Premiere Source for Mushroom Growing Supplies. Visit us online or call us toll free
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Banez
Stranger


Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 15,181
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: Lana]
#6551623 - 02/10/07 06:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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thats actually pretty smart.. well its kinda fruad, but yeah.. have you even talked to your landlord about it?.. and im sure it would be considered an emergency if the heat is electric.. if the breaker kept going out and knocking out the heat or something, thatd be grounds for an "emergency situation"
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: Banez]
#6551865 - 02/10/07 07:21 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've never met my "land lord". As far as I know, they've never showed up here. Now I'm wondering if they pop in and walk around my place when I'm at work. :tinfoilhat:
I guess if they did and saw how trashed the house can be sometimes, they'd kick my ass out. 
It sounds like a blessing to rent a house for two years and never have to come into contact with the person liable for the house (basically, a real estate agency owns it and rents it out).
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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roby000
me

Registered: 02/28/05
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Post deleted by roby000
Reason for deletion: sd
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cpw1971
Mr

Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 5,615
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: roby000]
#6552753 - 02/10/07 11:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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the breakers in the other apt shouldn't be in the same service box as yours. if so thats code violation right there. if not then your electrical shouldn't trip nieghbor's EVER
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: cpw1971]
#6553166 - 02/11/07 02:38 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's right. And Lana's idea is really good. It doesn't really matter if it was the person that entered or the faulty wiring or a power surge from the breakers or the space heater getting unplugged. If some expensive piece of equipment doesn't work now then they're liable and you should ding them for it.
-FF
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serendipitythenot
Stranger

Registered: 12/10/06
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Re: Apartment raided *DELETED* [Re: fastfred]
#6555586 - 02/11/07 08:10 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by niki420Reason for deletion: .
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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yeah, that's called trespassing. call the police if they won't stop.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: wilshire]
#6556037 - 02/11/07 09:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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The best way is to stand up for your rights. Your rental is your home for the duration of your lease. Nobody is ever supposed to come into your place without permission. The only exceptions are for emergencies like broken water pipes, fire, etc. Often leases will say that the landlord can come in for a yearly or biyearly inspection, or to show the place, with 24-48 hours written notice.
So know your rights and tell them that they are trespassing and that you'll call the cops or sue them if they illegally enter.
For more direct results just have a loaded gun pointed at them when they enter. Holler "get down on the ground, hands behind your head," Then procede to holler "who do you work for," or pat them down or call the cops while they are down. It's certainly in your rights to hold an illegal intruder at gun point until the cops arrive or you figure out who they are and what they are doing entering your apartment. Once you've done that I guarantee that they will never enter unannounced again.
I've had that happen to me just for knocking on someone's door. When someone always answers the door with a loaded gun, you make damn sure that next time you knock, announce your name, and take a few steps back from the door.
-FF
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serendipitythenot
Stranger

Registered: 12/10/06
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Re: Apartment raided *DELETED* [Re: fastfred]
#6559803 - 02/12/07 06:55 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by niki420Reason for deletion: .
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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I've never heard of inspections more frequent than 6 months. I've heard of some lazy or absentee landlords just taping up a 24-48 hour notice on the door to let you know that they are going to inspect, but all I've ever dealt with will call or write and set things up far in advance.
Also the inspection should be just for damage and problems. That means a quick look around to see if there are any large holes in the wall, big holes in the carpet, major animal damage, etc. They aren't allowed to go poking around in your shit. The inspection should take no longer than 10 minutes tops.
Just tell them that unannounced intruders in your home tend to get shot and you'd hate to ruin the carpet with a big blood stain. Intruders are easy to get rid of, but changing a carpet is a lot of work.
-FF
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: fastfred]
#6560091 - 02/12/07 08:08 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I should probably mention that you're not usually allowed to just blow away intruders any more in most areas. People shooting unarmed intruders sometimes get involuntary manslaughter and do a couple years in prison.
The rules in the US as far as I understand them is that if someone is armed with a gun you can blow them away at any distance. If they're armed with a knife then the rule is 7 feet. If they're unarmed then they must be attacking you or lunging towards you at fairly close distance.
That's for killing someone though. I'm pretty sure you can non-lethally shoot them in most circumstances with no fear of being prosecuted.
Even if there was an emergency people are still expect to knock and announce themselves. There is never any excuse for someone to just walk into your place. I know if anyone did that to me I would have them face down on the ground, probably with a rifle butt to the back of the head helping them down and then they would have a lot of explaining to do. If they had any complaints about their treatment at the end of it they would remain at gunpoint on the ground until the cops arrived and I would press charges for breaking and entering, illegal entry, trespassing, and whatever else they could reasonably be charged with.
I know you can have handguns in Canada, but a shotgun is a far better weapon for home defence anyway. You can get single-shot models pretty cheaply. They are great for hunting. You can also load them with anything from rock salt to dove load to 00 buckshot to slugs. Let me tell you, you don't want to see what even a 20 gage slug will do to a tree, let alone a person. They're also handy for delivering blows. A pistol whipping, while effective, can't compare to a good hard blow from the butt of a shotgun.
-FF
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: fastfred]
#6560178 - 02/12/07 08:30 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm guessing that you probably aren't so hardcore about home defence judging by the fact that you've let this go on so long.
Given that, here's what I would do. I have a neighbor who I often see dressed in cammo and hunting vest presumably on his way out hunting. He loves to talk about his gun collection, hunting, what kinds of shotgun loads he uses, etc. He tells hunting stories and mimes tracking a bird and pulling the trigger, and loves to boast about what a good shot he is. I know for a fact that he's shown the landlord his gun collection, he loves to show them off. He also has a NRA sticker on his vehicle, etc.
He's a really nice guy, but I know for a fact that nobody who's ever met him is going to just walk into his place.
So I advise everyone to get a cheap shotgun, name it, and be proud of it. Anytime you meet a neighbor or landlord, etc. be sure to have a hunting story ready. Just say, Oh gosh I love to hunt, why just last season 3 grouse popped up so close to me that I was startled and they got 50 yards away before I could draw a bead on them, I only had #8 dove load, but I've got a full choke on my gun and it's dead on so luckily I was able to drop two of them with one shot!
It's also probably a good idea to let them see you coming home with your shotgun sometimes. Then they'll be sure not to go inside when you're gone.
-FF
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rawtoxic
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 2,097
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: fastfred]
#6563967 - 02/13/07 06:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Also a good idea to answer the door holding a handgun (like cleaning it or something) when people come over to visit you and stuff.
NRA stickers near entrances and I had an "Insured by Ruger" bumper sticker a short while.
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Lightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: rawtoxic]
#6564669 - 02/13/07 09:05 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just get a..
"This residence protected by Lightningfractal."
sticker!
-------------------- Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Good ideas... My favorites are "Insured by Smith and Wesson" and the "Nothing in this house is worth YOUR life" stickers.
Being in Canada though, you better not get anything picturing a pistol though. I know from experience that that WILL draw the heat in Canada.
-FF
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Lightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: fastfred]
#6566954 - 02/14/07 01:40 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol sticker culture shock.
"But I ordered the sticker from America officer, I don't own a pistol!"
-------------------- Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Try crossing the border with a handgun sticker on your truck sometime... Guaranteed hours of fun.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Yeah, you are letting people walk all over you, and it sounds like white trash that is doing it.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Kamin


Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 449
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: fastfred]
#6619926 - 02/28/07 10:21 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: I should probably mention that you're not usually allowed to just blow away intruders any more in most areas. People shooting unarmed intruders sometimes get involuntary manslaughter and do a couple years in prison.
The rules in the US as far as I understand them is that if someone is armed with a gun you can blow them away at any distance. If they're armed with a knife then the rule is 7 feet. If they're unarmed then they must be attacking you or lunging towards you at fairly close distance.
That's for killing someone though. I'm pretty sure you can non-lethally shoot them in most circumstances with no fear of being prosecuted.
Even if there was an emergency people are still expect to knock and announce themselves. There is never any excuse for someone to just walk into your place. I know if anyone did that to me I would have them face down on the ground, probably with a rifle butt to the back of the head helping them down and then they would have a lot of explaining to do. If they had any complaints about their treatment at the end of it they would remain at gunpoint on the ground until the cops arrived and I would press charges for breaking and entering, illegal entry, trespassing, and whatever else they could reasonably be charged with.
I know you can have handguns in Canada, but a shotgun is a far better weapon for home defence anyway. You can get single-shot models pretty cheaply. They are great for hunting. You can also load them with anything from rock salt to dove load to 00 buckshot to slugs. Let me tell you, you don't want to see what even a 20 gage slug will do to a tree, let alone a person. They're also handy for delivering blows. A pistol whipping, while effective, can't compare to a good hard blow from the butt of a shotgun.
I'm pretty sure there is some wrong info here. From what I have been told, if someone enters your house you must shoot to kill. I have heard numerous stories where because the owner injures the intruder with a gun, but doesn't kill them, the intruder sues them. And another where the intruder got injured inside the house and was able to successfully sue. The legal system is quite unclear about this, and really, no one should be able to sue you for something that happened to them while trespassing...totally ridiculous.
Back to topic, I am in favor of answering the door with a gun. That would stop them.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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The reason you hear about such stories is because they are so crazy and unusual. I highly doubt any of those cases held up upon appeal.
It's true that dead men tell no tales, but it really wouldn't help you to kill them anyway. The dead person's relatives can sue you just as easily as if the robber were still alive himself.
-FF
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: fastfred]
#6624949 - 03/01/07 04:12 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
The best way is to stand up for your rights. Your rental is your home for the duration of your lease. Nobody is ever supposed to come into your place without permission. The only exceptions are for emergencies like broken water pipes, fire, etc. Often leases will say that the landlord can come in for a yearly or biyearly inspection, or to show the place, with 24-48 hours written notice.
So know your rights and tell them that they are trespassing and that you'll call the cops or sue them if they illegally enter.
-FF
good advice FF!~
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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blizzietomyhiz
Stranger w/candy

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 195
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: Mezcal]
#6640864 - 03/06/07 10:10 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
snyder said: Probably the lease includes a stipulation that they can enter to assess anything like an "emergency". To get a real answer you'll need to take your lease to a lawyer and have them take a look at it.
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res
Stranger

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Police aren't allowed to enter a premises without a warrant but would an illegal inspection by a landlord be admissible for them to give a warrant or probable cause?
I have had it happen.
My girlfriend lives in a low income “HUD” apartment complex. I was staying with her for a little while and had a home made brine shrimp hatchery for feeding my Betta fry. It is a bottle cut in half with the top flipped over and stuck in the bottom so it will stand up. You then fill it with water and stick a air hose attached to a bubbler into the bottle, so the brine shrimp eggs stay suspended in the water.
Well, my girlfriend and I were away for the week. While we were gone they decided to do a inspection and stuck a notice on the door “which we never saw”. Anyways, while they were doing the inspection they saw my brine shrimp hatchery and thought it was a drug lab or some shit, and called the police. We got a call from one of the neighbors telling us that the police and the apartment complex manager were in the house taking pictures.
We found out that the cops were not the one's taking pictures, but the manager. We called the police station immediately to ask WTF was going on. The guy sort of laughed and told us that it was no big deal, and he knew right away that it was not a drug lab.
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demiu5
humans, lol


Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 43,948
Loc: the popcorn stadium
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: res]
#6749529 - 04/05/07 06:28 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
We called the police station immediately to ask WTF was going on. The guy sort of laughed and told us that it was no big deal, and he knew right away that it was not a drug lab.
I would've told him that's not what the fuck I was talking about
-------------------- channel your inner Larry David
Edited by demius (04/05/07 06:29 AM)
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agar
old hand



Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: demiu5]
#6749731 - 04/05/07 08:21 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Owning your place has CERTAIN advantages. I realize everyone can't do that. But, it sure makes me feel secure.
Plus, a long driveway, 3 big mean dogs, concealed security camera's & alarm system. Not to mention, there are 4 buildings on my property. Each of which is on a separate parcel & has a different address number. Sneaky part is, the numbers were changed. So, if someone every showed up with a search warrant for my home/shop. They would discover their search warrant was for my barn.
Best suggestion I can make is replace the locks on a bedroom door, so the landlords key doesn't fit/work.
While greenhouses are cool. I don't use them. Simply because they are SEE THROUGH.
  LOCKS ARE GOOD THINGS
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SuperD
Cacti junky



Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: agar]
#6750006 - 04/05/07 10:07 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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<<So, if someone every showed up with a search warrant for my home/shop. They would discover their search warrant was for my barn.>>
That's incredibly clever. Plenty of time to do some emergency cleaning once you hear all the commotion next door.
--------------------
   D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
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agar
old hand



Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: Apartment raided [Re: SuperD]
#6762309 - 04/08/07 06:21 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not to mention, the "liability" of opening inspecting 1,000
 ORCHID CULTURE FLASKS 
Any of which, they "open", they Contaminate. Which would create a several $100K liability.
Not to mention, liability of entering a "clean room". Thereby contaminating it.
So on & so forth.
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