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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: trippindad82]
    #6557635 - 02/12/07 12:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I would hope though that the delay is based on the Democrats in Congress looking for the proof they need before they proceed on an impeachment.

It would be an extremely grave event for the U.S. if an impeachment were initiated and then failed for whatever reason. The Bush admin would surely 'laud it as a vote of confidence.


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6558141 - 02/12/07 03:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

You mean the incident where Joe Wilson was told by members of the government of Niger that a trade delegation from Iraq had visited in 1999 for the purpose of re-opening trade negotiations, and that since Iraq had bought yellowcake from Niger in the past, they interpreted this request to mean Iraq wanted to buy yellowcake again?

Yes, I remember it. Do you?




Yes I do remember it, I just didn't follow the mainstream media's version of the events. Her husband is the very person who did the research AND presented a report to the CIA/Pentagon (Rumsfeld???) stating that there was no threat assessed and that IN FACT no purchases had been made. 1999-2003 is a long time to claim that someone still had intent.

If you are driving through the city and a cop pulls you over and charges you with attempt to buy weed (when all you really did was drive down a street, no purchase was made), can and should you be charged with possession?

And for you claiming that the intel was 100% accurate:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2861168
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070209/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/iraq_pentagon_intelligence
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17077437/

So, if it is wrong for Dan Rather to present false information and he was harshly punished for doing so, why aren't the above persons being held accountable? And when I say bush and crew, wouldn't Ashcroft and Rumsfeld and Rice be part of that group? Wasn't it Rumsfeld's pentagon that provided the WRONG intel? Doesn't that constitute a lie? Or do we not consider half truths lies around here?


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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Edited by trippindad82 (02/12/07 03:09 PM)


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: trippindad82]
    #6558252 - 02/12/07 03:30 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Yes I do remember it, I just didn't follow the mainstream media's version of the events. Her husband is the very person who did the research AND presented a report to the CIA/Pentagon (Rumsfeld???) stating that there was no threat assessed and that IN FACT no purchases had been made. 1999-2003 is a long time to claim that someone still had intent.




Wilson said the government officials in Niger told him they rejected Iraq's overtures. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.

But even if they did reject the overtures, that doesn't make Bush's statement regarding their efforts to obtain yellowcake a lie. Hussein's minions did in fact attempt to obtain yellowcake from Niger.

Quote:

And for you claiming that the intel was 100% accurate:




Obviously the intel was not 100% accurate. But that doesn't mean anybody LIED about anything.

By the way, do you even bother to read the links you provide? The three links all refer to the same story. The allegation by some Democrat senators is that the Pentagon somehow did something wrong. In actual fact, it turns out the Pentagon did NOT "manipulate" anything. Senator Levin claims the report shows they did, when in fact the report shows nothing of the kind. That's why the Washington Post was forced to print a shamefaced retraction (the third link you provided).

Quote:

So, if it is wrong for Dan Rather to present false information and he was harshly punished for doing so...




The memos Rather presented were such blatantly obvious forgeries it took less than 24 hours for irrefutable proof of their falsity to appear.

The Pentagon's analysis of Iraq's repeated contacts with high ranking Al Qaeda members are factual and were widely reported previously by a number of sources, both American and international. One can put forth the argument that such contacts weren't of any significance, but it cannot be denied they occurred. There are just too many sources confirming the contacts.

Rather's SINGLE source for the memos was a deranged Bush hater.

And again, Rather wasn't punished by the government. He was shuffled off to greener pastures by his employer.




Phred


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: Phred]
    #6558292 - 02/12/07 03:42 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So...what you are saying is that it is acceptable for a nation to go to war against another NON THREATENING NATION over "we think this is correct" intel? Iraq was ZERO threat. Afghanistan was ZERO threat. At no time did either of those nations put out a DIRECT threat to the American people. I am sure there are peoples in every nation on this planet who support alQaida in some way or another, are we to jump into war with these NON THREATENING nations because we don't agree with SOME of their citizens?

Iran is ZERO threat. Who are we as a nation to say who can and cannot have nuclear warheads? If we can have them, then so should anybody else. We are no better. We have extremists in our very own nation who would like to see nuclear bombs dropped on certain parts of the world. To me, we shouldn't have them either if that's the view we uphold other nations to.


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------



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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: trippindad82]
    #6558301 - 02/12/07 03:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

As soon as 9/11 happened I said that morning:

"This is way too big, and we have Bush, so entire states will be attacked now."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6558412 - 02/12/07 04:08 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

As they should have been. You know what I said that morning? As soon as the second plane hit? I said al qaeda and bin laden. The whackos in Afghanistan were given an opportunity to hand the asshole over. They didn't. Sadass (currently nicely chilled) had ample opportunity to prove he didn't have the weapons. He was in noncompliance with the contract he had agreed to. Oops, his bad, no pussy president this time, c'est la vie. Or morte. Too, too bad for both assholes, that a craven cowardly piece of shit wasn't president. Good for us. Of course, the douchebags on the left are doing everything they could possibly do to back away from their own votes to get some fucking balls and instead validate the rampant opinion among lunatics that America is seriously pussified.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6558423 - 02/12/07 04:11 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

By the way, I don't believe you thought that at all. It sounds like revisionist bullshit. Even I, arch war monger that I am, wasn't familiar enough with the next hero president to trust that he would do the right thing. Mirabile dictu, he stepped up. Even Reagan caved.


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Edited by zappaisgod (02/12/07 04:11 PM)


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6558547 - 02/12/07 04:35 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Mmmmmkay. Rah, rah, rah for bloodshed. :rolleyes:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6559250 - 02/12/07 07:27 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yep. Never been bloodshed before or by any others. Keep living in that castle in the sky. Iraq was a garden of Eden. Yep.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6559345 - 02/12/07 07:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Back on topic, folks. Iran, I run, I will run.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: Redstorm]
    #6559373 - 02/12/07 07:50 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

There may be a tiny Iran border violation by the US. Dwarfed, of course, by the meddling of Iran in Iraq. Which is itself dwarfed by the obviously justified meddling by a major consortium of other nations in Iraq to squelch a genocidal opportunist thug.


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6560255 - 02/12/07 10:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

There may be a tiny Iran border violation by the US. Dwarfed, of course, by the meddling of Iran in Iraq. Which is itself dwarfed by the obviously justified meddling by a major consortium of other nations in Iraq to squelch a genocidal opportunist thug.




Is not our own military genocidal in a sense? We are using armor piercing shells that are made from depleted uranium. When they hit the side of a tank, they vaporize and turn into radio active dust. What's the problem with this? one might ask. Well, dust in a desert that can blow during sandstorms moves this radioactive dust into colonized areas. This dust is then breathed in and absorbed into the body where it causes other problems. There are children being born in Iraq right now without heads, their intestines outside their body, and many other health problems that did not exist until we began using these shells during and after Desert Storm. We still use them today. This to me is just as much a form of genocide as directly killing a group is. We are causing long term health effects (the half life for depleted uranium is a VERY long time) and could possibly cause enough damage to wipe out a group of people.


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------



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Offlinemattymonkey
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: trippindad82]
    #6560272 - 02/12/07 10:50 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

can you link a source for these alleged birth defects?


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: mattymonkey]
    #6560554 - 02/12/07 11:43 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: trippindad82]
    #6560864 - 02/13/07 12:44 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Please review the definition of "genocide" before using it haphazardly.


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: Redstorm]
    #6561016 - 02/13/07 01:14 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I understand the definition of genocide. We are using weapons in a region that can have horrible consequences for the tribes/peoples whom live there. If the reproductive abilities of an entire clan/village are wrecked by radio active dust, isn't that in a form genocide? It would seem to me that the peoples, if unable to reproduce due to mutations and diseases caused by radio active sickness, that will wipe out a group. Maybe it's not instantaneous, but it's still happening non the less. 4.7 billion years for a half life. That dust is going to be there for a very long time. No one is standing there gassing or shooting the people directly, but that doesn't nullify the charges. And if we overthrew, charged, and killed Saddam Hussein on the basis of genocide, then shouldn't the very people who are choosing to use DU weapons be also charged for genocide? We are causing long term harm to the people of that region. And how about our own soldiers whom are also there breathing the same dust?


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: trippindad82]
    #6561189 - 02/13/07 01:46 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

For it to be genocide, it has to be clearly intentional for those effects to be occurring to the civilians. It's awful what is happening to those civilians, but calling it genocide discounts the word.


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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: Redstorm]
    #6561204 - 02/13/07 01:50 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Who is not to say it isn't on purpose? When the results were seen long before this second conflict (gulf war syndrome anyone?) in Iraq, our leaders have chosen to continue using them. That to me seems like an intentional effort. Then, they continue to deny that using radio active weapons isn't having any effect on the population when all studies prove otherwise. I can't think of another word, maybe murder, torture, inhumanity. But those don't even seem to sum it up.


--------------------
Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


--------------------------------------



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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: trippindad82]
    #6561292 - 02/13/07 02:06 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think collateral damage sums it up just fine. Its shittie but not intentional. Like death on the highways. Tens of thousands of innocent people die every year on the highways. Its not genocide, its collateral damage from our lifestyle.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: Iran attack by spring? [Re: DieCommie]
    #6561774 - 02/13/07 06:07 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Nah, if someone machine guns your house that's a little more personal than a shunt on the freeway.

It may not be genocide but it's something more than collateral damage. We need another neat phrase for it.


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