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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy


Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Life is intrinsically meaningless
#6538022 - 02/06/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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And that's the beauty of it.
We get to decide what it means to us, what each event and experience means, why we are here, what being alive means. There are no right or wrong or absolute answers to anything. Nothing has any meaning or purpose save that which we give to it. What would be the point if there was set meaning or purpose? It would thwart free will and that is the purpose! Life is whatever you want it to be! It's perfect! Nothing matters! This is but a stage and we are the actors. The only question is, how do we wish to act?
This is our chance to be whoever we want to be. We have nothing to lose and only the most amazing experience to gain. Free yourself from fear and attachment, just imagine that you are capable of anything. Have no doubts!
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6538056 - 02/06/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I doubt there's any free will about it. Our ego reacts after our subconscious has already decided the action, and what is the subconscious but the unification of all our memories, instincts and socially-learned behaviors?
Life is intrinsically meaningless because the evolution of life and our current state developed through adaptations, one of which was the sense of meaning put in human beings. Our complex minds evidently survived better with a false sense of meaning than without one, perhaps because those with meaning and belief in an afterlife or greater purpose also risked more in battle and thereafter passed on their genetics as they had increased access to mates after their victories.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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Philanthropist
Savior ofMankind

Registered: 06/01/04
Posts: 204
Loc: Amsterdam, Holland
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6538093 - 02/06/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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it its meaningless if you make it what it is which is meaningless. If you want meaning and enlightenments in your life pm me for stimulations.
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy


Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Ravus]
#6538168 - 02/06/07 09:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ravus said: I doubt there's any free will about it. Our ego reacts after our subconscious has already decided the action, and what is the subconscious but the unification of all our memories, instincts and socially-learned behaviors?
Speak for yourself, I have free will. I'm doing exactly what I want right now and I could go do anything else. I don't live by conditioning and just do whatever the fuck I please. Only enaced fear will keep you from experiencing 'free will', and even then you are choosing to express fear and conditioning and ego. You always are choosing what you wish to experience, if even unconsciously - at some level, it is you making that choice.
Quote:
Life is intrinsically meaningless because the evolution of life and our current state developed through adaptations, one of which was the sense of meaning put in human beings. Our complex minds evidently survived better with a false sense of meaning than without one, perhaps because those with meaning and belief in an afterlife or greater purpose also risked more in battle and thereafter passed on their genetics as they had increased access to mates after their victories.
There's more to life than survival of the fittest. Life is meaningless because it is, because it would be pointless if there was a universal meaning or purpose, as that would imply that we were supposed to follow it, and that would influence our free will as we would see such meaning or purpose as imposed by God and hence obligated to follow.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6538239 - 02/06/07 09:28 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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i never feel like i am not onto something - really
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_ 🧠_
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist


Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6538258 - 02/06/07 09:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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life is meaninglessly meaningful, and meaningfully meaningless.
it's a paradox. it is irrational, illogical, and it just doesn't make any sense.
those who choose to embrace this paradox, and learn to live alongside its inconclusive ways, will find it to be beautiful.
those who choose to dissect the paradox, and are fixed on figuring it all out, as if it were a logical equation, will find struggle and consequently misery.
it's interesting to examine life/death and wonder what it could all be about, but it's also interesting to simply let go and flow along with the eternal river of unanswerable questions.
befriend the mystery. 
--------------------
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6539614 - 02/07/07 08:50 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I look at the tree and watch all the organisms living within it. I am overwhelmed by the many purposes and meanings this beautiful existence of life has in so many different facets and perspectives, by its own, even without me. EVERYTHING has purposes and meanings in specific contexts and it is so so beautiful. I wish everyone could see that and I wonder how one could ignore. I take a seed and plant it by the side.
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Under_the_Stars
Stranger

Registered: 01/22/07
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6539658 - 02/07/07 09:06 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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WRONG. IMO.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6539921 - 02/07/07 10:52 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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If you haven't already, I suggest you read Existentialism is a Humanism by Jean-Paul Sartre. I think you would enjoy it.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (02/07/07 04:45 PM)
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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And why is it wrong, in your opinion?
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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dickdeadly
rælity

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 5,672
Loc: in my mind
Last seen: 12 years, 12 days
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Quote:
cilosyb said: And that's the beauty of it.
...
This is our chance to be whoever we want to be. We have nothing to lose and only the most amazing experience to gain. Free yourself from fear and attachment, just imagine that you are capable of anything. Have no doubts!
beautiful.
Quote:
Under_the_Stars said: WRONG. IMO.
ugly.
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Character is how you act when you think no one is watching
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ck10n3
Imagine


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Here, now.
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: fireworks_god]
#6541159 - 02/07/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: And why is it wrong, in your opinion?
I would also like to know a reason besides getting some extra posts in.
-------------------- "You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time. Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe. -cK
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ck10n3
Imagine


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Here, now.
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: ck10n3]
#6541506 - 02/07/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hrmm.. like I just did!   
---
I think we do have free will as well.
Anyways, I have been having trouble understanding how to let go of my attachments without taking anything to induce ripping them away.
I understand where I should go, but I don't know how to get there.
Is a psychedelic experience a sort of cheat sheet? Has anyone gone through the long process of uninebriated light consciousness?
-------------------- "You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time. Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe. -cK
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: ck10n3]
#6542138 - 02/07/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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i have not used any psychedelics for several months and i only used them very very sparingly at most.
i just do yoga and meditate and lucid dream.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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JstHereFrTheCake
Stranger
Registered: 01/05/07
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6542450 - 02/07/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
cilosyb said:
Speak for yourself, I have free will. I'm doing exactly what I want right now and I could go do anything else. I don't live by conditioning and just do whatever the fuck I please. Only enaced fear will keep you from experiencing 'free will', and even then you are choosing to express fear and conditioning and ego. You always are choosing what you wish to experience, if even unconsciously - at some level, it is you making that choice.
I am sick of people saying this. You could in fact not be doing what ever you want right now. You made the decisions that got you to right now based on your conditioning (mental, emotional and ultimately physical evolution) you could not have made any other decisions. If you think you could have you are fooling yourself into think that because of your conditioning. "free will" doesn't really exist, you may as well believe that you have it because the complexity of your development and personality are so complex that it isn't likely we will ever know the equation. That's what you have to understand. The universe is just math, it's an equation that is acting itself out in a linear fashion. What happens happens and couldn't have happened any other way than it happened.
No one can see the future, so for some reason we trick our selfs into believing that we can change it, however the future will always happen just as it is going to happen. Now you may read this and say "screw that I am going to go change the world for the better" and you may actually do it, however you only did it because of your programmed emotional response to this post (this is a hypothetical I don't actually expect ppl to get that riled up over my post).
The point is that that there is nothing but cause and effect and there has never been anything but. there is no randomness in the universe, math is the ultimate order. 1+1 is always 2, it doesn't suddenly become 5 on occasion.
anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread. life is great because we get to decide whats great to us. It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist


Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: ck10n3]
#6542748 - 02/07/07 11:31 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
JstHereFrTheCake said: anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread. life is great because we get to decide whats great to us. It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.

Quote:
ck10n3 said: I understand where I should go, but I don't know how to get there.
This is a popular thought-loop but is not very psychedelic in logic.
it's good that one understands the destination, but it's also not a big deal if you don't know the entire route which will take you there.
[breathe, start here and now. this is the moment] 
you can always see what's in front of the horizon. it's what awaits behind the line that always puzzles us.
do what you can to follow the paths and ways, streets and roads, elevators and escalators in front of your eyes, so that you can start walking closer to your destination.
whatever comes, will present itself when it comes into your view.  happy travels my friend. 
--------------------
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ck10n3
Imagine


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Here, now.
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Quote:
JstHereFrTheCake said: anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread. life is great because we get to decide whats great to us. It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.
So I thought it was funny you said you agree with the guy who started the thread yet he is the one you just disagreed with.
What do you make of that bold statement in correlation to free will?
-------------------- "You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time. Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe. -cK
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy


Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Quote:
JstHereFrTheCake said:
I am sick of people saying this. You could in fact not be doing what ever you want right now. You made the decisions that got you to right now based on your conditioning (mental, emotional and ultimately physical evolution) you could not have made any other decisions. If you think you could have you are fooling yourself into think that because of your conditioning. "free will" doesn't really exist, you may as well believe that you have it because the complexity of your development and personality are so complex that it isn't likely we will ever know the equation. That's what you have to understand. The universe is just math, it's an equation that is acting itself out in a linear fashion. What happens happens and couldn't have happened any other way than it happened.
No one can see the future, so for some reason we trick our selfs into believing that we can change it, however the future will always happen just as it is going to happen. Now you may read this and say "screw that I am going to go change the world for the better" and you may actually do it, however you only did it because of your programmed emotional response to this post (this is a hypothetical I don't actually expect ppl to get that riled up over my post).
Nothing is linear. There is no beginning or end, the past and future don't exist except in our minds. There is only Now and you are choosing how you wish to experience it, we are creating the moment. Now is what the past became and we create into the future. We can imagine the future so we can create it in new ways that serve us better. We are creative. All the possibilities for experience are woven into the fabric of the universe already, we are just choosing which experiences we want.
Quote:
The point is that that there is nothing but cause and effect and there has never been anything but. there is no randomness in the universe, math is the ultimate order. 1+1 is always 2, it doesn't suddenly become 5 on occasion.
There is much more than cause and effect. Smoke DMT and tell me that's just cause and effect.
Quote:
anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread. life is great because we get to decide whats great to us. It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.
While I'm glad you agree and disagree with me. You're really contradicting yourself - as you just said:
"we get to decide"
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy


Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6545907 - 02/08/07 09:30 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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What I'm really trying to get at there is that life INTRINSICALLY has no purpose or meaning but to provide us with an opportunity to give it purpose and meaning.
For instance, a heroin addict and a doctor see different purpose/meaning in a bottle of Oxycontin. By itself, that bottle of OC has no meaning or purpose. It's given by either the doc or the addict, and neither or their purposes/meanings they give it are right or wrong. It's all a matter of perspective. This is as true for the bottle of OC as it is for life itself. We create our reality, so to say. It's whatever we want it to be. Unfortunatley, most people are Sheeple and live the reality dictated to them by school/govenment/authority/society etc. But there is no right or wrong way to look at reality, or to decide what it's purpose and meaning is, because these are choosen by individuals creating experience.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Quote:
JstHereFrTheCake said:
Quote:
cilosyb said:
Speak for yourself, I have free will. I'm doing exactly what I want right now and I could go do anything else. I don't live by conditioning and just do whatever the fuck I please. Only enaced fear will keep you from experiencing 'free will', and even then you are choosing to express fear and conditioning and ego. You always are choosing what you wish to experience, if even unconsciously - at some level, it is you making that choice.
I am sick of people saying this. You could in fact not be doing what ever you want right now. You made the decisions that got you to right now based on your conditioning (mental, emotional and ultimately physical evolution) you could not have made any other decisions. If you think you could have you are fooling yourself into think that because of your conditioning. "free will" doesn't really exist, you may as well believe that you have it because the complexity of your development and personality are so complex that it isn't likely we will ever know the equation. That's what you have to understand. The universe is just math, it's an equation that is acting itself out in a linear fashion. What happens happens and couldn't have happened any other way than it happened.
No one can see the future, so for some reason we trick our selfs into believing that we can change it, however the future will always happen just as it is going to happen. Now you may read this and say "screw that I am going to go change the world for the better" and you may actually do it, however you only did it because of your programmed emotional response to this post (this is a hypothetical I don't actually expect ppl to get that riled up over my post).
The point is that that there is nothing but cause and effect and there has never been anything but. there is no randomness in the universe, math is the ultimate order. 1+1 is always 2, it doesn't suddenly become 5 on occasion.
anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread. life is great because we get to decide whats great to us. It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.
What if the truth in your words was expressed in a different metaphor? Life is a blank canvas, there are a lot of paints. Society gives us a standard set of colors, and they are not very beautiful. There are some lucrative rare colors that one can dredge up if he is inclined. One can paint nothing but within the stencils given, or he can do his best to use all the resources of the entire collective brains of all humans to create his own very complex stenciled patterns and everything of the sort.
Why, how, etc? Yes it is math, but math is only one half of the brain. If you state it in a more appealing way it suddenly becomes a miracle instead of an equation. With finite resources we can create infinite combinations. Most music sounds almost the same, but some continues to push boundaries of human consciousness... because music can be anything and the possible combinations are likely far too big to ever be calculated or counted. Yet, this incalculability can be grasped by the right brain.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6546098 - 02/08/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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I like your post. thank you for reminding me.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6547143 - 02/09/07 10:22 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hehe cylob, I agree with everything you say, BUT how can you then explain a purpose of a tree, lets say for a bird ? Or the purpose of a stone which gives a seed space to growth because of the stone providing as slipstream for the seed against the wind. Or the purpose of wings for a bird. Or legs for an animal ?
It's everywhere and most intrinsic !
I really don't get it, but perhaps it is some strange language problem. In german language it seems quite clear.
edit:Maybe perhaps because meaning and purpose only exist in dualities/dependencies/relationships ?
Edited by BlueCoyote (02/09/07 10:30 AM)
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capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6547250 - 02/09/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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of course life is meaningless, cause meaning is meaningless, each concept has a deep meaning with its meaning making the previous inferior to the current, until nothing which you understood, makes any sense in the here and now, at least thats how I felt on shit load of shrooms
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: capliberty]
#6547416 - 02/09/07 12:20 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Consider life in relative meaning to consciousnes ?! Then life and existence, then all three together and add a spicey bit of 'reality' into it and mix their purpose and meaning on each other
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ck10n3
Imagine


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Here, now.
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6547529 - 02/09/07 01:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Life is intrinsically meaningless, because IT just IS.
-------------------- "You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time. Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe. -cK
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy


Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
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Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: BlueCoyote]
#6547621 - 02/09/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
BlueCoyote said: Hehe cylob, I agree with everything you say, BUT how can you then explain a purpose of a tree, lets say for a bird ? Or the purpose of a stone which gives a seed space to growth because of the stone providing as slipstream for the seed against the wind. Or the purpose of wings for a bird. Or legs for an animal ?
It's everywhere and most intrinsic !
Trees like being trees, or so they've told me - they provide us with all sorts of goodness. It's all an incredibly beautiful interconnected web of life, every aspect of which helps the entire process (save ignorant humans). The trees and birds and we are One. Everything makes everything else possible - that is the purpose. I suppose you could say that the purpose of life is to provide us with an opportunity to choose what we want the meaning and purpose to be, to decide who we want to be, and how we want to experience life. It's the ultimate freedom of choice, to me it gives many insights into the nature of life/God itself, that we have unlimited freedom of choice, and that the life giving forces on earth give life on no conditions.
Everything wants to be what it is, everything is evolving, consciously and spiritually, through the experiecnes provided through form (body and mind) and the contextual field of experience made possible by the universe for experience (light cannot be experienced without dark, up without down, here without there, etc). What are we evolving towards? Whatever we choose to.
My thoughts, anyway.
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
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marybell
sALLy.caNt.daNce


Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 832
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: AlteredAgain]
#6547633 - 02/09/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said: life is meaninglessly meaningful, and meaningfully meaningless.
it's a paradox. it is irrational, illogical, and it just doesn't make any sense.
those who choose to embrace this paradox, and learn to live alongside its inconclusive ways, will find it to be beautiful.
those who choose to dissect the paradox, and are fixed on figuring it all out, as if it were a logical equation, will find struggle and consequently misery.
it's interesting to examine life/death and wonder what it could all be about, but it's also interesting to simply let go and flow along with the eternal river of unanswerable questions.
befriend the mystery. 
amen to that!
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Grok
Has Been a Bad Boy


Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 1,262
Loc: Greener Pastures
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: leery11]
#6547773 - 02/09/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:What if the truth in your words was expressed in a different metaphor? Life is a blank canvas, there are a lot of paints. Society gives us a standard set of colors, and they are not very beautiful. There are some lucrative rare colors that one can dredge up if he is inclined. One can paint nothing but within the stencils given, or he can do his best to use all the resources of the entire collective brains of all humans to create his own very complex stenciled patterns and everything of the sort.
That's an awesome metaphor!  
In fact, if it's alright, I wish to quote this elsewhere!
-------------------- Entropy is increasing. To send me a PM, go to my journal
Edited by cilosyb (02/09/07 02:32 PM)
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
#6550514 - 02/10/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
[...]I suppose you could say that the purpose of life is to provide us with an opportunity to choose what we want the meaning and purpose to be, to decide who we want to be, and how we want to experience life.[...]
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