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OfflineGrok
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Life is intrinsically meaningless
    #6538022 - 02/06/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

And that's the beauty of it.

We get to decide what it means to us, what each event and experience means, why we are here, what being alive means. There are no right or wrong or absolute answers to anything. Nothing has any meaning or purpose save that which we give to it. What would be the point if there was set meaning or purpose? It would thwart free will and that is the purpose! Life is whatever you want it to be! It's perfect! Nothing matters! This is but a stage and we are the actors. The only question is, how do we wish to act?

This is our chance to be whoever we want to be. We have nothing to lose and only the most amazing experience to gain. Free yourself from fear and attachment, just imagine that you are capable of anything. Have no doubts!


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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InvisibleRavus
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Posts: 7,991
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6538056 - 02/06/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I doubt there's any free will about it. Our ego reacts after our subconscious has already decided the action, and what is the subconscious but the unification of all our memories, instincts and socially-learned behaviors?

Life is intrinsically meaningless because the evolution of life and our current state developed through adaptations, one of which was the sense of meaning put in human beings. Our complex minds evidently survived better with a false sense of meaning than without one, perhaps because those with meaning and belief in an afterlife or greater purpose also risked more in battle and thereafter passed on their genetics as they had increased access to mates after their victories.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflinePhilanthropist
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Registered: 06/01/04
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6538093 - 02/06/07 08:44 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

it its meaningless if you make it what it is which is meaningless. If you want meaning and enlightenments in your life pm me for stimulations.


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Ravus]
    #6538168 - 02/06/07 09:06 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
I doubt there's any free will about it. Our ego reacts after our subconscious has already decided the action, and what is the subconscious but the unification of all our memories, instincts and socially-learned behaviors?




Speak for yourself, I have free will. I'm doing exactly what I want right now and I could go do anything else. I don't live by conditioning and just do whatever the fuck I please. Only enaced fear will keep you from experiencing 'free will', and even then you are choosing to express fear and conditioning and ego. You always are choosing what you wish to experience, if even unconsciously - at some level, it is you making that choice.

Quote:

Life is intrinsically meaningless because the evolution of life and our current state developed through adaptations, one of which was the sense of meaning put in human beings. Our complex minds evidently survived better with a false sense of meaning than without one, perhaps because those with meaning and belief in an afterlife or greater purpose also risked more in battle and thereafter passed on their genetics as they had increased access to mates after their victories.




There's more to life than survival of the fittest. Life is meaningless because it is, because it would be pointless if there was a universal meaning or purpose, as that would imply that we were supposed to follow it, and that would influence our free will as we would see such meaning or purpose as imposed by God and hence obligated to follow.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6538239 - 02/06/07 09:28 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i never feel like i am not onto something - really


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6538258 - 02/06/07 09:33 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

life is meaninglessly meaningful, and meaningfully meaningless.

it's a paradox. it is irrational, illogical, and it just doesn't make any sense.

those who choose to embrace this paradox, and learn to live alongside its inconclusive ways, will find it to be beautiful.

those who choose to dissect the paradox, and are fixed on figuring it all out, as if it were a logical equation, will find struggle and consequently misery.

it's interesting to examine life/death and wonder what it could all be about, but it's also interesting to simply let go and flow along with the eternal river of unanswerable questions.

befriend the mystery. :mushroom2:

:egyptian:


--------------------


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6539614 - 02/07/07 08:50 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I look at the tree and watch all the organisms living within it.
I am overwhelmed by the many purposes and meanings this beautiful existence of life has in so many different facets and perspectives, by its own, even without me.
EVERYTHING has purposes and meanings in specific contexts and it is so so beautiful. I wish everyone could see that and I wonder how one could ignore.
I take a seed and plant it by the side.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineUnder_the_Stars
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6539658 - 02/07/07 09:06 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

WRONG. IMO.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6539921 - 02/07/07 10:52 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

If you haven't already, I suggest you read Existentialism is a Humanism by Jean-Paul Sartre. I think you would enjoy it.


Edited by MushmanTheManic (02/07/07 04:45 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Under_the_Stars]
    #6540062 - 02/07/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

And why is it wrong, in your opinion? :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinedickdeadly
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Under_the_Stars]
    #6540073 - 02/07/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cilosyb said:
And that's the beauty of it.

...

This is our chance to be whoever we want to be. We have nothing to lose and only the most amazing experience to gain. Free yourself from fear and attachment, just imagine that you are capable of anything. Have no doubts!




beautiful.

Quote:

Under_the_Stars said:
WRONG. IMO.




ugly.


--------------------

Character is how you act when you think no one is watching


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Offlineck10n3
Imagine
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Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6541159 - 02/07/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
And why is it wrong, in your opinion? :grin:




I would also like to know a reason besides getting some extra posts in.


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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Offlineck10n3
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: ck10n3]
    #6541506 - 02/07/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Hrmm.. like I just did! :thumbdown::crazy2::thumbup:

---

I think we do have free will as well.

Anyways, I have been having trouble understanding how to let go of my attachments without taking anything to induce ripping them away.

I understand where I should go, but I don't know how to get there.

Is a psychedelic experience a sort of cheat sheet? Has anyone gone through the long process of uninebriated light consciousness?


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: ck10n3]
    #6542138 - 02/07/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i have not used any psychedelics for several months and i only used them very very sparingly at most.

i just do yoga and meditate and lucid dream.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Registered: 01/05/07
Posts: 189
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6542450 - 02/07/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cilosyb said:

Speak for yourself, I have free will. I'm doing exactly what I want right now and I could go do anything else. I don't live by conditioning and just do whatever the fuck I please. Only enaced fear will keep you from experiencing 'free will', and even then you are choosing to express fear and conditioning and ego. You always are choosing what you wish to experience, if even unconsciously - at some level, it is you making that choice.





I am sick of people saying this. You could in fact not be doing what ever you want right now. You made the decisions that got you to right now based on your conditioning (mental, emotional and ultimately physical evolution) you could not have made any other decisions. If you think you could have you are fooling yourself into think that because of your conditioning. "free will" doesn't really exist, you may as well believe that you have it because the complexity of your development and personality are so complex that it isn't likely we will ever know the equation. That's what you have to understand. The universe is just math, it's an equation that is acting itself out in a linear fashion. What happens happens and couldn't have happened any other way than it happened.

No one can see the future, so for some reason we trick our selfs into believing that we can change it, however the future will always happen just as it is going to happen. Now you may read this and say "screw that I am going to go change the world for the better" and you may actually do it, however you only did it because of your programmed emotional response to this post (this is a hypothetical I don't actually expect ppl to get that riled up over my post).

The point is that that there is nothing but cause and effect and there has never been anything but. there is no randomness in the universe, math is the ultimate order. 1+1 is always 2, it doesn't suddenly become 5 on occasion.

anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread. life is great because we get to decide whats great to us. It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: ck10n3]
    #6542748 - 02/07/07 11:31 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:
anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread.  life is great because we get to decide whats great to us.  It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.




:mushroom2:

Quote:

ck10n3 said:
I understand where I should go, but I don't know how to get there.





This is a popular thought-loop but is not very psychedelic in logic.

it's good that one understands the destination, but it's also not a big deal if you don't know the entire route which will take you there.

[breathe, start here and now. this is the moment] :idea:

you can always see what's in front of the horizon. it's what awaits behind the line that always puzzles us.

do what you can to follow the paths and ways, streets and roads, elevators and escalators in front of your eyes, so that you can start walking closer to your destination.

whatever comes, will present itself when it comes into your view. :smile:
happy travels my friend. :heart:

:egyptian:


--------------------


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Offlineck10n3
Imagine
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: JstHereFrTheCake]
    #6542852 - 02/08/07 12:06 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:
anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread. life is great because we get to decide whats great to us. It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.




So I thought it was funny you said you agree with the guy who started the thread yet he is the one you just disagreed with.

What do you make of that bold statement in correlation to free will?


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: JstHereFrTheCake]
    #6543803 - 02/08/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

At least in quantum space we are confronted with something that looks like randomness to us.
We don't see the causes there, so we can't explain the effects and all resolves in propability.
Doesn't that seem similar to human decision making ?
:smile:

A little selection:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1992PhDT.......140M
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/quantum-world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism#Determinism.2C_quantum_mechanics_and_classical_physics
http://www.wellness.org.za/html/articles/a-conc.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics,_philosophy_and_controversy

and so on and so on...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: JstHereFrTheCake]
    #6545889 - 02/08/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

JstHereFrTheCake said:

I am sick of people saying this. You could in fact not be doing what ever you want right now. You made the decisions that got you to right now based on your conditioning (mental, emotional and ultimately physical evolution) you could not have made any other decisions. If you think you could have you are fooling yourself into think that because of your conditioning. "free will" doesn't really exist, you may as well believe that you have it because the complexity of your development and personality are so complex that it isn't likely we will ever know the equation. That's what you have to understand. The universe is just math, it's an equation that is acting itself out in a linear fashion. What happens happens and couldn't have happened any other way than it happened.

No one can see the future, so for some reason we trick our selfs into believing that we can change it, however the future will always happen just as it is going to happen. Now you may read this and say "screw that I am going to go change the world for the better" and you may actually do it, however you only did it because of your programmed emotional response to this post (this is a hypothetical I don't actually expect ppl to get that riled up over my post).




Nothing is linear. There is no beginning or end, the past and future don't exist except in our minds. There is only Now and you are choosing how you wish to experience it, we are creating the moment. Now is what the past became and we create into the future. We can imagine the future so we can create it in new ways that serve us better. We are creative. All the possibilities for experience are woven into the fabric of the universe already, we are just choosing which experiences we want.

Quote:

The point is that that there is nothing but cause and effect and there has never been anything but. there is no randomness in the universe, math is the ultimate order. 1+1 is always 2, it doesn't suddenly become 5 on occasion.




There is much more than cause and effect. Smoke DMT and tell me that's just cause and effect.

Quote:

anyway I agree with the guy who started the thread. life is great because we get to decide whats great to us. It society telling us we need other things to be happy that makes life shitty sometimes.




While I'm glad you agree and disagree with me. You're really contradicting yourself - as you just said:

"we get to decide"


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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OfflineGrok
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Re: Life is intrinsically meaningless [Re: Grok]
    #6545907 - 02/08/07 09:30 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

What I'm really trying to get at there is that life INTRINSICALLY has no purpose or meaning but to provide us with an opportunity to give it purpose and meaning.

For instance, a heroin addict and a doctor see different purpose/meaning in a bottle of Oxycontin. By itself, that bottle of OC has no meaning or purpose. It's given by either the doc or the addict, and neither or their purposes/meanings they give it are right or wrong. It's all a matter of perspective. This is as true for the bottle of OC as it is for life itself. We create our reality, so to say. It's whatever we want it to be. Unfortunatley, most people are Sheeple and live the reality dictated to them by school/govenment/authority/society etc. But there is no right or wrong way to look at reality, or to decide what it's purpose and meaning is, because these are choosen by individuals creating experience.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal


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