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Offlineck10n3
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The Second Coming
    #6537333 - 02/06/07 07:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Sitting in my Western Religion class yesterday I had quite an idea as my teacher spoke. We were discussing the Islamic standpoint of the prophets and particularly Jesus(Isa) at one point. Here are some of my notes and some of the discussion.

Some background notes for the discussion:

Prophets - they remind people they are responsible for their actions
-pattern: knowledge, forgetting, renewal
Mahdi - a person that will make people ready for the return of Jesus(Isa)
Ibis(satan) - known for whispering evil things to people, ie. "eat the apple"

Discussion (approximately):

Teach: There are some who say that Jesus never truly died on the cross, because all of the Islamic prophets are said to be in such connection with God that when they die they are much closer to heaven than normal Muslims.

A difference between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam is that in Islam Muslims believe that Jesus was not the son of God. God is seen as ineffable, and Jesus was just another prophetic human.

Prophets exist to help remind people of Godliness. In the Hadiths(texts written from Muhammads teachings, another prophet) it is stated that there were over 124,000 prophets scattered across the globe, each area having its own, and Mecca having the most for some reason.

cK: Just throwing this interpretation out there, could the idea that Jesus never truly died on the cross be a metaphor for the connectedness Jesus had with God. Say Jesus is a metaphor for the state of mind that one has who is truly in touch with God. The state of connectedness to God can never truly die as it is an experience, not a physical thing. Are there any scriptural things that might support that?

Teach: Well that was a theory that some early scholars had, but Jesus is not seen as a metaphor usually.

Later on in class...

Teach: And Ibis is what people would refer to as Satan. In Islam there is a Satan and he is at odds with God. He is known for his whispering that of evil things into the minds of people.

cK: I don't mean to digress, but I have to go back to the idea that the connection Jesus had with God is just a state of being and not something special to just him, though special in just the sense that he was able to accomplish it. Satan is seen as someone who whispers to others to get them to do evil things. It is exactly like the old "Good angel, Bad angel" scenario.

The prophet Jesus tries to remind people of their unity with God. Satan embodies the desires and all the things that oppose Godliness. This all happening with the religious devotee in between at odds between the things Jesus says and what Satan is trying to dilute purity with. This obviously relates to someone or something imposing on peoples consciousnesses.

Isn't this just what Plato and Freud proposed many years after the Qur'an? That the pathos, thymos, and logos must be in balanced and in harmony of self? That the id, ego, and the superego must be in balance? In Buddhism that the body, mind, and soul must be in allignment? (out of context, but here: ))

Class ends. I still ponder though...

Isn't the second coming of Jesus supposed to bring everyone back to the state where the are reminded of God? Isn't that just a global consciousness of God awareness? The cosmic consciousness?

Are we not the Mahdi? I know I am ready to help remind people that they are one with God. I know others around here are ready too. What do you guys think of this whole mess of thought?


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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Offlineleery11
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: ck10n3]
    #6537830 - 02/06/07 09:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

how can you remind me that I'm one with God?

We can be told right, but we have to experience.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: ck10n3]
    #6537872 - 02/06/07 09:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think that the issue is a matter of reminding anyone of anything. The issue is that of persuading others of your view of life (and by no means am I implying that I agree with your pantheistic view).


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Offlineck10n3
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6538108 - 02/06/07 10:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry, vigilant_mind, I forgot to add "remind people who are ready to be reminded."

I'm no Christian missionary. I am not persuading anything. I am simply stating. Other people know what I am talking about. You don't have to join the oneness like your icon is doing, it is all a matter of choice, and you have yours while I have mine. Some people would like to know though, and I am trying to get to the point where I can show them.


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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Offlineck10n3
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: ck10n3]
    #6538115 - 02/06/07 10:50 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

leery11: I would like to direct you to this thread for that answer:

speech and consciousness by CerebralFlower a bit lower on the boards

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6530661/an/0/page/0


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: ck10n3]
    #6538297 - 02/06/07 11:48 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Your goal is perfectly valid.

Would you mind elaborating a bit on this "oneness?"


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Offlineleery11
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: ck10n3]
    #6538299 - 02/06/07 11:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

about the second coming.... I've felt like the second coming should be metaphorical in that all people willing to be at one with God attain God-unity rather than just all Christians or all Buddhists or all Muslims...... or all atheists...... rather... all.

However, I stumbled and fall against a sea of Bibles and their interpretors who perhaps will say.... religious syncretism is an act of the anti-Christ.

They will say that this fellow, the anti-Christ, can take you to heaven, but it will be a mock heaven, and you won't know it until its too late and God sends you to hell for not following Jesus.

Seems like a very inclusive way to make your story right, as if when you are little and you say "i shot you" and your friend says "nuh-uh i'm invincible" and you say "but i have an almighty bullet that breaks through your shield" and he says "but my shield is made of the sun and it can deflect any bullet ever made because your bullet is made of metal and it will melt" and you say "but the sun would destroy you" and he says "no because i have a protective sun lotion on" and etc then eventually you give up because he just keeps explaining things to make it that he is right.

If Jesus saves, why doesn't a simple prayer to Jesus invoke a download of Christ-conscoiusness? When I was quite young I always thought I was a Christian but all of a sudden I heard no you have to say this certain prayer where you ask him into your "heart" to be saved, so I said the prayer... didn't feel any different at all (since afterall I already believed right?) but smiled because that is how religious people are supposed to feel, all smiley and happy when they pray.

but at the same time, any charlatan wanting to peddle a book can sell you a method to attain consciousness..... then you have the "mark" stamped on your forehead because you are dependent upon his wisdom and you have bought his product to get there.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (02/06/07 11:51 PM)


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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: leery11]
    #6538333 - 02/07/07 12:03 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Are you gentlemen suggesting that the "end" is the apocalypse prophesied by John in the Book of Revelation?


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Offlineleery11
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6538370 - 02/07/07 12:17 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I am suggesting that when I think of people's consensus ideas about "the end" and "second coming" I think that 2012 explains it, metaphorically.

I am skeptical about Christianity but I live in an area where it is constantly reinforced.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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Offlinevigilant_mind
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: leery11]
    #6538385 - 02/07/07 12:22 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I am skeptical about Christianity but I live in an area where it is constantly reinforced.




I attend a Christian High School (ironic, no?) that is located in the belt buckle of the "Bible Belt."


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Offlineck10n3
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: vigilant_mind]
    #6539170 - 02/07/07 06:01 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

My interpretation is that each person will have their own way to find the truth (Chris-consciousness, unity, love, oneness, God, whatever you want to call it).

I just saw the second coming relating to 2012, and other things that people have been talking about heightened consciousness, greater awareness, destruction and birth.

Again, I did not mean for this to be focused on Christianity. I wanted this to revolve around what may be coming to unify human kind. I think all religions have a metaphor for it, and that is what I was trying to get across. :heart:


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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OfflineUnder_the_Stars
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: ck10n3]
    #6539183 - 02/07/07 06:21 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

No offense, but NO ONE comes back IMO, EVER.


--------------------


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Offlineck10n3
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: Under_the_Stars]
    #6539189 - 02/07/07 06:28 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I don't think Jesus is coming back - metaphor - cosmic consciousness is coming back.

This thread is way off from what I was trying to get across, hrmm.


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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OfflineUnder_the_Stars
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: ck10n3]
    #6539378 - 02/07/07 08:44 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

People have all sorts of names for cosmic consciouses,or peak expereices... etc, its all the same man.

People have their own unique experiences, we are not just birds that are going to hear a call, and all act the same way! And that IS a GOOD thing.

We are ourselves. And thats all. :smile:


--------------------


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: Under_the_Stars]
    #6540433 - 02/07/07 03:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The bible isn't all meant to be looked as a metaphor, this is the zionist work,

such as the mystical creatures of revelations, that was definite gnosis that needed to be omitted, I'm thinking the whole thing should of been omitted

When are we going to learn that these supposed crusades have no factual basis behind them, sure theres going to be an awakening, humans are constantly evolving but that has nothing to do with some second comming.


Edited by capliberty (02/07/07 03:56 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: capliberty]
    #6540784 - 02/07/07 05:10 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

:confused: WTF?


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6540885 - 02/07/07 05:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I got my eyes peeled, don't think I'm not aware of what went down with all these different views. You know WTF


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: Under_the_Stars]
    #6541168 - 02/07/07 07:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Under_the_Stars said:
No offense, but NO ONE comes back IMO, EVER.




True
Why are we waiting for "God's saving hand" to help us? We can do it on owr own.
And why do we need do justify our errors and selfishness through a guy we call satan? There's no satan. It's just us being stupid.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlineck10n3
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6541543 - 02/07/07 08:19 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Damnit, we are God. God's saving hand is our own realization that we are in fact God - cosmic consciousness.

It is all the same.

I was trying to get across that Satan is a metaphor for "us being stupid" of course there is no Satan. Satan is our attachment to what we think is concrete. God is the truth that is absolute behind everything. When we disattach from Satan(our attachments), we realize God(we are part of the oneness).

AHHH this thread is making me crazy.


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Second Coming [Re: capliberty]
    #6542244 - 02/07/07 11:15 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
I got my eyes peeled, don't think I'm not aware of what went down with all these different views. You know WTF




I know paranoia when I see it, especially when non-Zionists mention "Zionists."


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