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Tamadragon
Stranger


Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 382
Loc: CAN
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Post deleted by TamadragonReason for deletion: ===
-------------------- ~Tama Peace I get real lonely
Edited by Tamadragon (02/28/07 02:28 PM)
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deeptraveller
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 102
Loc: russia
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Re: Extraction idea [Re: Tamadragon]
#6530583 - 02/04/07 03:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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if the solvent contains water, extract can be muddy (not transparent). The activated coal can excellently replace charcoal...... it is possible to use silicagel yet (focus in that that these substances have very big internal area)
EDTA is safe. it add in food stuffs and cosmetics
if you did not saw this yet and if you have time for this: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5489469/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6194866/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1
we stay idle for the lack of clean psbn and pscn. if we had them before the beginning of our experiences it would be possible to investigate them prior to the beginning of extraction with those reactants which you want to apply. so it is possible to check up the guesses, and differently we are compelled to search by practical ways. p\s\very well that you think in this direction..... I shall wait yours tek
-------------------- we makes only that we makes...... this is very amusing idea if you under mushrooms_try this if you are not afraid I have told it or have thought?
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Tamadragon
Stranger


Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 382
Loc: CAN
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Thanks for the links friend!
-------------------- ~Tama Peace I get real lonely
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DMT_Feind
Stranger in astrange land

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 75
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Extraction idea [Re: Tamadragon]
#6566905 - 02/14/07 01:27 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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So how about shooting for a pure psilocybin salt extract rather than the psilocin extract I mentioned before? Wouldn't the salt form of psilocybin be fairly stable and moderately resistant to environmental breakdown? I think it could be done via and acid extraction with EDTA as a chelting agent to prevent the dephosphorylation of psilocybin. Nonpolar components of the mushroom could be removed beforehand with a nonpolar solvent, and any major impurities after the acid extraction could be removed by some filtration process - the pure salt might be crystallized by freezing it out of solution. What does everyone think?
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Extraction idea [Re: DMT_Feind]
#6566941 - 02/14/07 01:36 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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> What does everyone think?
There is no salt form of psilocybin. Psilocybin is a zwitterion, meaning that it is it's own internal salt.
As far as psilocin goes, I don't think that it would really form a salt either. The charges aren't right. I've never seen any information to make me think that psilocin would form a salt.
-FF
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DMT_Feind
Stranger in astrange land

Registered: 11/14/06
Posts: 75
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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Re: Extraction idea [Re: fastfred]
#6567074 - 02/14/07 02:14 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok... So how about what I said above and simply isolating the psilocybin. Wouldn't psilocybin be relatively stable in pure form... or at least stable enough to isolate, weigh, and dissolve back into solution?
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nijusan
shrub

Registered: 02/25/04
Posts: 38
Loc: Gulf Islands BC
Last seen: 10 years, 2 days
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Re: Extraction idea [Re: DMT_Feind]
#6585887 - 02/19/07 04:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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The blending of fresh Psilocybes into an acidic "smoothie" sounds great for quick dose preparation, even if not for some method of extraction for storage (this jury seems to still be out on the issue).
The gastric juices are strongly basic; would this enhance or detract from absorbing a useful ionic form of either psilocin or psilocybin pretreated with an acidic maceration?
Shee'it, no materials at hand to bioassay a few trials. Have to leave it to others to do the heavy lifting.
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Tamadragon
Stranger


Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 382
Loc: CAN
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Extraction idea *DELETED* [Re: nijusan]
#6586516 - 02/19/07 06:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by TamadragonReason for deletion: .. ..
-------------------- ~Tama Peace I get real lonely
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pokermush
Waterboardingmyself toprotect America!


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 475
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: Extraction idea [Re: Tamadragon]
#6589470 - 02/20/07 01:49 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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After reading about lemon juice extraction, and a suggestion to freeze the mushrooms to break the cell walls, I tried an experiment.
About 55 grams of fresh mushrooms were frozen to -5*F for a couple days. Freezing them turned them jet black. They were then thawed, and blended (with a hand-held blender) with some lemon juice and distilled water.
I consumed this and felt no effects. Zero.
Possibilities: 1) Freezing somehow destroyed the actives. 2) These particular mushrooms were not potent. 3) Something about the blending allowed the actives to oxidize. Having ruptured the cell walls by freezing may been a factor, as the cell walls would normally protect against oxidization.
I lean toward #3.
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Tamadragon
Stranger


Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 382
Loc: CAN
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Extraction idea *DELETED* [Re: pokermush]
#6589527 - 02/20/07 02:12 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Post deleted by TamadragonReason for deletion: --
-------------------- ~Tama Peace I get real lonely
Edited by Tamadragon (02/20/07 02:15 PM)
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pokermush
Waterboardingmyself toprotect America!


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 475
Loc: Utah
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: Extraction idea [Re: Tamadragon]
#6589803 - 02/20/07 03:25 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I originally tried this because I was trying to stretch the shrooms into 2 doses. They were frozen whole in a small sealed jar. No other liquid was added before freezing, because I wanted the ice to form long crystals and cut the cell walls, something that is inhibited if they are submersed in a liquid. Maybe a better approach would be to heat it up gently with the lid on until steam expels the air, then freeze.
I added water to aid in blending. The blending still didn't work so well, as the mushroom fibers tended to wrap around the blades rather than get cut. I probably would have been much better to chop them up very fine first.
If I recall correctly, I had about 1 part distilled water to about 1 part lemon juice from the bottle.
I had no stomach upset, but I don't get that when I eat mushrooms anyway. But the frozen shrooms were pretty damn gross, and I normally like the taste of shrooms. It was fear-factoresqe 
Something I'm interested in is how various processes affect psilocin, psilocybin, and baeocystin(sp), the 3 actives in cubes. There is a lot of dispute about the effects of heat on the actives, but my experiment leads me to believe they are highly susceptible to oxidation.
I suspect that cooking mushrooms in a coating of vegetable oil will damage the cell walls enough to allow digestion, while the oil protects from oxidation. Even if cooking destroys some actives, that may be offset by better digestion/absorption of remaining actives. I think my next batch will be cooked.
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