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InvisibleClark
Bar RoomSuperman

Registered: 11/15/00
Posts: 179
Made out of Meat
    #651718 - 05/29/02 05:49 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

A very brief tragicomedy about the prospect of alien contact.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Clark]
    #651763 - 05/29/02 06:03 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I don't believe in aliens... but that was fucking funny!


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisibledeep_umbra
Stranger
Registered: 05/12/02
Posts: 109
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Clark]
    #651920 - 05/29/02 07:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

haha, cool stuff


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Anonymous

Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Clark]
    #651950 - 05/29/02 07:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

LOL


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: ]
    #652335 - 05/30/02 12:04 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

we are we are...

... meaty tetrapods





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InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
Loc: heart cave
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Clark]
    #652465 - 05/30/02 04:04 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

nature=machine=nature=machine.......


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Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Clark]
    #652924 - 05/30/02 09:49 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Makes me wanna squeeze air through my meat.


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: Sclorch]
    #653159 - 05/30/02 11:31 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)



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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Anonymous]
    #654567 - 05/30/02 10:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

How could you not believe in aliens?
I know it's counterintuitive, but it's quite simple... I just choose not to believe in things when there is NO evidence whatsoever to prove (or even NOTE) their existence.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Sclorch]
    #654607 - 05/30/02 10:54 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

That meat piece was damn funny, thanks for posting it.

Sclorch said:
"How could you not believe in aliens?
I know it's counterintuitive, but it's quite simple... I just choose not to believe in things when there is NO evidence whatsoever to prove (or even NOTE) their existence. "

I think actually that you dont choose not to believe in them, but rather that the belief that they dont exist is 'formed' in you from the evidence that you have experienced.
I dont think anyone chooses their beliefs as such. Think about it, can you just snap your fingers and right here and now choose to believe in something? Like walking into a shop and choosing an ice-cream from the selection on offer? Im inclined to think that beliefs are formed from the evidence, rather than chosen. That isnt to say that beliefs cant be influenced by free-will and action, but they cant directly be chosen. If i wanted to believe in aliens i might read lots and lots of alien books, hang around with alien nuts, and maybe even have a desire that aliens truthfully exist. All of these experiences will probably result in the belief that aliens exist being formed in me, but I wont simply 'choose' to believe in their existance or non-existance like I can choose to raise my arm.

Just a thought

Cheers,
Jono.


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Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: jono]
    #655988 - 05/31/02 03:52 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

the belief that they dont exist is 'formed' in you from the evidence that you have experienced.
Well there skippy, that's just your opinion... keep on believing in determinism and fate, then when bad shit happens you'll never have to say "it was my fault".

as for this:
That isnt to say that beliefs cant be influenced by free-will and action, but they cant directly be chosen.
How's that?
Maybe you didn't pay attention in class... or maybe you conveniently forgot my stance on the "belief" issue. Here's a concise refresher: I don't have a belief system. My active participation (ie. my choices) are responsible for any "quasi beliefs" I have.
So go on blaming your experiences for who you are... responsibility for one's beliefs isn't for the weak of mind.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Sclorch]
    #656662 - 05/31/02 10:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

My argument doesnt have anything to do with determinism or fate, but rather about how beliefs are formed.
You are right, it is only my opinion, but an opinion I have come to after much reading and deliberation.
Whenever people speak of "choosing beliefs" they are using the word choice incorrectly. Beliefs cannot arise as the direct result of the action of choice. Can you right now, choose whether or not to believe that there is a computer in front of you? You cant.
Ill send you a paper that I recently finished writing on doxastic involuntarism if you are interested, Its far to involved to be worth posting here.

Cheers,
Jono.
Cheers,
Jono.


--------------------
Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: jono]
    #657123 - 06/01/02 09:28 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

jono: the belief that they dont exist is 'formed' in you from the evidence that you have experienced.
Sclorch: Well there skippy, that's just your opinion... keep on believing in determinism and fate, then when bad shit happens you'll never have to say "it was my fault".
jono: My argument doesnt have anything to do with determinism or fate, but rather about how beliefs are formed.
I'm sorry but that first statement IS determinism. If you can't understand that, then Oh well.

AGAIN- I only have "quasi-beliefs".... the quasi thoroughly eliminates any connotations of certainty (although the actual definition of belief does not mandate certainty, many people look at it that way). Also, quasi implies that I don't have any blind faith in what I quasi-believe in.

Then you try to be clever:
Can you right now, choose whether or not to believe that there is a computer in front of you?
1) That's sort of a Loaded Question/False dilemma. 2) Didn't take into consideration my "quasi-beliefs". 3) I know a computer is there... this knowledge follows from my quasi-belief in my sensory experience. Of course, there is always that skeptic in me saying that I could be mistaken, but I have a probability matrix of sorts that fixes that (in this case: 1 out of billion chances that the computer is not there).
You cant [answer the previous question].
You're right, I can't say "yes" or "no"... until you give me a better question.

Sure, send me the paper (PM me for my email).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Sclorch]
    #658142 - 06/01/02 10:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, Ill give a slightly different question.

Can you choose a belief about something, like you can choose an ice-cream?
Say you walk into an ice-cream shop, and there are a whole range of ice-creams on offer. You can choose whatever ice-cream you would like, no problems.
Can you choose your beliefs in the same way?

Ill PM you the paper.

Cheers,
Jono.


--------------------
Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: jono]
    #661289 - 06/03/02 08:38 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Your questions still suck. I made up some for you.

Can you consciously choose a quasi-belief?
Yes.

Can you unconsciously and blindly choose a belief?
I've seen it done before (often), but I don't subscribe to that thought (?) process.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Offlinejono
misc.
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 137
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Sclorch]
    #661426 - 06/03/02 09:38 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I missed this bit in your earlier post
jono: the belief that they dont exist is 'formed' in you from the evidence that you have experienced.
Sclorch: Well there skippy, that's just your opinion... keep on believing in determinism and fate, then when bad shit happens you'll never have to say "it was my fault".
jono: My argument doesnt have anything to do with determinism or fate, but rather about how beliefs are formed.
Sclorch: I'm sorry but that first statement IS determinism. If you can't understand that, then Oh well.

My argument doesnt have to do with determinism at all. Determinism is the idea (as Im sure you are aware) that EVERYTHING that happens is the consequence of a set of antecedent casually sufficient conditions. Im saying that beliefs are formed, (obviously they are the effect of a cause, but im not making a GENERAL deterministic statement about EVERYTHING in the world! Thats what determinism tries to do. Im simply saying beliefs are determined by something; which is vastly different from advocating determinism!

Sclorch : Can you consciously choose a quasi-belief? Yes.

Give me an example of a 'qausi-belief' (not that the quasi nature of the belief ulitimately makes it different to a belief state), that you have conciously chosen, and I will show to you that it was instead 'formed' from the evidence, not chosen.

Also, If you want me to accept my question as sucking, you'll have to show me why and how it sucks. Otherwise Im inlcined to think you are avoiding it.


Cheers,
Jono.


--------------------
Our problem results from acting like cowboys on a limitless frontier when in truth we inhabit a living spaceship with a finely balanced life-support system." David C. Korton


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Anonymous

Re: Made out of Meat [Re: Clark]
    #661704 - 06/04/02 04:02 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

That story was a blast!!!! How true!!! Meat we are!!! I am moving on to a new galaxy!!



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