Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineMustardMan
Peace Frog
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 970
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Article regarding psychedelics
    #6510058 - 01/29/07 08:55 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

http://actionskeptics.blogspot.com/2006/12/why-you-should-not-use-psychedelic.html


I used to believe deeply that psychedelic experiences were something bigger than just the effects of a drug.

I think people should read this article, I'm prepared for massive criticism...

Don't get me wrong, I still like shrooms once in awhile, love growing them, love mushrooms, but come on... When you get down to it, its just a drug that creates "a false reality created by a misfiring brain".

I do believe the use of psychedelics can be very helpful however, if used under a staged environment and in the presence of a professional psychiatrist leading you.

I personally have been reading about new quantum theories (super string theory, M-Theory etc.) and I do believe that one day physics will be able to explain the deepest questions man has pondered... I highly suggest reading 'The Elegant Universe' by Brian Greene, for those of you who haven't already... truly fascinating.


--------------------
Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata

Cultivated Cubensis

Edited by MustardMan (01/29/07 09:03 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510083 - 01/29/07 09:02 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
its just a drug that creates "a false reality created by a misfiring brain".




You claim a lot. Why should anyone believe you? What makes you so sure?

Misfiring brain, don't you mean neurons? We don't have room for getting that shit wrong. I mean if your gonna get on the case of psychedelisists, at least get it right.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMustardMan
Peace Frog
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 970
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: mecreateme]
    #6510111 - 01/29/07 09:09 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

You act as if I'm the only one stating these claims. Nearly all physicians claim this, and science supports their claims. Are you ready to throw out science like a religious fanatic?


--------------------
Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata

Cultivated Cubensis

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510131 - 01/29/07 09:16 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Did you post anything to back up anything? I don't think so.

C'mon put a little backbone into it, show me something.

You make a claim that others claim these things, sounds pretty hollow to me. Assuming things makes an ass out of you and me.

You really bought into that blogger that you posted didn't you? You realize he is spewing criticism just like anybody that spews bullshit, right?


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,947
Last seen: 6 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510136 - 01/29/07 09:17 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Ok... I quote

"Physically changing how your brain works so that you hallucinate talking green elephants having sex with a female Jesus doesn't "expand your consciousness.""

Uhm... what? Most of the article was along these lines. The guy was clearly biased to one side, and seems to believe that all the psychedelic experience is, is hallucinations.


Again I quote...

"What amazes me is the ability of people like this to completely understand what's happening when they take acid or peyote or whatever the hell else they want to damage their brains with, but still interpret the entire thing as some sort of "psychic experience" or "growth of consciousness.""

Where is his evidence that any substance he mentions, or infers, damages the brain? He backs up nothing, and uses a LOT of foul language and insults. It seems to be his biased opinion on the matter.

I read it, I saw nothing that I haven't heard said before, and it was crude at best (IMO).


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Kickle]
    #6510147 - 01/29/07 09:21 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Very crude and very biased. I think the guy was pissed off at the Colbert Report or some shit and he obviously had his own agenda to push.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,947
Last seen: 6 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Kickle]
    #6510153 - 01/29/07 09:21 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

As a side note - who really cares if what occurs physically is a misfiring? Who is to say that the way they fire 'naturally' is the only true way?

If you read what you do, you must believe in alternate dimensions and the sort. Who is to say that what is natural there, isn't completely different from what it is here.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMustardMan
Peace Frog
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 970
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: mecreateme]
    #6510170 - 01/29/07 09:26 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

You're joking right?

Can you find a single certifiedphysician who advocates psychedelic drug use? Maybe a few nuts, but the average doctor, no. This is for a reason. They know that it is merely a drug that poisons your brain and body--you're body temporarily doesn't work to its maximum efficiency.

I guess it was stupid of me to post this, it is impossible to change the minds of those who are convinced (due to their personal love of the drug and want for believing it as conscious opener). Sure, if I were a primitive native in south America with no knowledge of the sciences, I would believe the drug to be so... But you can't argue with the science that tells us how the drug works, and its effects on the brain. I've asked several physicians about psychedelics and they've all told me the same thing. It is a mind-altering drug, and nothing more.


--------------------
Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata

Cultivated Cubensis

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,947
Last seen: 6 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510191 - 01/29/07 09:34 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

No, I am not joking. You are stating your opinion.

I can guarantee there are physicians who advocate the substance, however, I would not imagine them doing so publicaly (as it is illegal).

I am more than open for discussion on the subject, but what you posted has nothing scientific in it at all.

And your "evidence" from personal experience is also not convincing to me. Just as, clearly, the experience of the majority of this board is not convincing to you.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510231 - 01/29/07 09:44 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, you talked to physicians. I have, too. So I guess since you have talked to a few, you have an accurate view of all doctors everywhere?

Take your dogma somewhere else, bro.

You wanna address anything from any of my posts or are you gonna let if all fly in the wind like your avatar, Wind man?

You made the post, so why don't you provide anything to back yourself up, besides a biased blog?


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff420
Skitso
Male
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 50
Loc: dream scape
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510252 - 01/29/07 09:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

My interpretation of what happens when tripping on tryptamines is this...

LSD, Psilicybin, and Mescaline are all tryptamines, and if my memory serves me well I believe Serotonin is also in this class of drugs. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter, what happens when your neurons fire is this, your neurons are shaped like arms, they have "fingers" dendrites and an arm which connects the dendrites to the main cell, when two neurons have their dendrites close enough and Serotonin passes between them a spark goes off. Well since Serotonin and the tryptamines are shaped the same the brain allows them to pass into the "key hole" and create a spark. So with a flood of keys you get a flood of sparks, so yes you could see it to be a miss fire. I see it more like over drive. Like putting NOS into your car sort of, and sometimes that causes malfunctions i.e. hallucinations.

But it takes a trained and disciplined person to put these malfunctions aside, to see through the hallucinations. And if you read some "tripping guides" or listen to Mckenna's elves they advise you "don't be amazed". I ask myself some questions sometimes "what is that I see?", a recreation. "Well what is this recreation?", neurons firing in my head due to sensory input. "Does a chair look like firing neurons and chemical reactions?", no, it has dimension, texture, and color."How is this done?", I'm not sure but sure seems like a sort of virtual reality."Where is this virtual reality that represents the outer world?" I am not sure."Is it in my head?"."Who does the looking?""Who or what is the thinker of these thoughts?", certainly they are not the same.

Sometimes I think that maybe this virtual reality place is in the making, a place we are all participating in creating, a place we go to when we die. I begin to think about DMT, and how its released in the brain when we die, and all the accounts of people saying they felt they may never come back, or entities saying that its not your time to people during Ayhausca and DMT voyages. I start to think about how DMT, Psilicybin, LSD, Mescaline, and Serotonin are all so closely related. I begin to think about quantum tunneling and where electrons go when they do, matter is information and after all isn't that what we are, as a consciousness, a culmination of information.

It all seems so strange, yet so beautiful, and yes I admit I want to believe it, though I am cautious.

Please correct me if I am absolutely wrong in any of this, the facts I mean, about neurotransmitters and all, and please point me in a direction so I can further my knowledge.


--------------------
Every thing I type is a figment of my skitso dreams, I have never actually done any of the things I may type about, nor will I ever do them.

I don't remember when it was that I fell asleep. It must of been long long ago. I don't remember for what time I set my alarm clock, I'm not sure how long I've been dreaming now. But I guess thats whats important, that I am dreaming. I think I want to wake up, but I am never sure. I just hope I will remember this dream when I do, I just hope I will remember who I was, this little bug on earth.

Known as "can_a_bus_dream" at http://futurehi.net/index.html

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemoho456
The Past Inside The Present
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/10/06
Posts: 223
Loc: Translinguistic Matter
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Kickle]
    #6510258 - 01/29/07 09:51 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Dude your a lopsided idiot. These people asked for a simple source other than some dude's opinion he posted on a blog. I havent ever done a psychedelic in my life so don't even try to tell me what I believe in. You think you can just waltz in here with a holier than thou attitude and just shut everyone down.

Woo Woo - Here comes the clue train:

LSD is the best treatment available for cluster headaches and migraines, and in fact many physicians recommend it, but like previously mentioned they cant publicly endorse it or it would cost them their jobs! Oh yeah - and you'll probably just write them off as "nuts" anyhow, since they don't support what you or your blogger friend say.

As for this book - good for that guy. If you don't like it don't buy it. I wouldn't buy it myself, but I wouldn't discount that something could happen in 2012.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefunkface
FriendlyStranger w/candy

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 190
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510301 - 01/29/07 09:59 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
You're joking right?

Can you find a single certifiedphysician who advocates psychedelic drug use? Maybe a few nuts, but the average doctor, no. This is for a reason. They know that it is merely a drug that poisons your brain and body--you're body temporarily doesn't work to its maximum efficiency.

I guess it was stupid of me to post this, it is impossible to change the minds of those who are convinced (due to their personal love of the drug and want for believing it as conscious opener). Sure, if I were a primitive native in south America with no knowledge of the sciences, I would believe the drug to be so... But you can't argue with the science that tells us how the drug works, and its effects on the brain. I've asked several physicians about psychedelics and they've all told me the same thing. It is a mind-altering drug, and nothing more.




I don't think you are going to be getting many physicians to be advocating the use of chemicals that are not manufactured by drug companies. Doctors prescribe pills. Doctors do not use holistic or natural remedies. Specific synthetic substance is the name of the game. So stop it with that straw man. You know doctors advocating the use of schedule 1 drugs is STUPID so don't even bring a discussion there.

First I want to know where LSD and shroomies *POISON* the brain. Also, what IS maximum efficiency you speak of?

Science tells us how the drug works, true. What can science explain to me about how it interacts with consciousness? What can science tell me about consciousness? After not being able to answer either of those questions... How can you tell me that these drugs effect the brain in a negative way?

Quote:

MustardMan said:
You act as if I'm the only one stating these claims. Nearly all physicians claim this, and science supports their claims. Are you ready to throw out science like a religious fanatic?




How many physicians have smoked DMT? Are these the physicians disputing the claims? What do nearly all physicians claim?

You create your own reality. Buy into what you will. People who aren't receptive to new ideas do whatever they can to block them out. To me this is the case of the "Action Skeptic". Even worse, this dumbass uses other reviewers of Pinchback's book to back his own claims. Who cares what others say, they are all nobodies and can be made up personalities.

This guy is a blowhard jackass extreme. He is out to make everyone else look like an idiot because he has nothing better to contribute to this reality. Look ma... I can criticize... are you proud of me?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecoopypants
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 194
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: moho456]
    #6510316 - 01/29/07 10:02 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

or mabye when your under the influence what you see if actually reality. as far as you know your still sleeping

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510331 - 01/29/07 10:06 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
You're joking right?

Can you find a single certifiedphysician who advocates psychedelic drug use? Maybe a few nuts, but the average doctor, no. This is for a reason. They know that it is merely a drug that poisons your brain and body--you're body temporarily doesn't work to its maximum efficiency.






Get your lame bigoted ideas out of here if you're not going to actually argue critically.

The reason most doctors don't advocate psychedelics is because they were not educated about them. The reason doctors were not educated about them is because we live in an arrogant, closed minded society, one where we think we have already answered the universe's questions.

I think that callously jamming your mind into a particular neuro-physical arrangement without considering the consequences (unquestioning belief in the christian god) is infinitely more akin to "misfiring the brain" than intentionally allowing the universe to affect your mind in a deep, powerful way.

Now unless you have anything more intelligent to say than "my doctor told me so" I suggest you leave while you still have a little face to save... a PHD is just a piece of paper, not the word of truth.

Quote:


I guess it was stupid of me to post this




You don't say...?

Retard.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff420
Skitso
Male
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 50
Loc: dream scape
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: coopypants]
    #6510339 - 01/29/07 10:08 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I think I should create another thread with all that thought I put into my post, what you guys say? Where should I post it for more hits? I would like to hear some opinions on it.


--------------------
Every thing I type is a figment of my skitso dreams, I have never actually done any of the things I may type about, nor will I ever do them.

I don't remember when it was that I fell asleep. It must of been long long ago. I don't remember for what time I set my alarm clock, I'm not sure how long I've been dreaming now. But I guess thats whats important, that I am dreaming. I think I want to wake up, but I am never sure. I just hope I will remember this dream when I do, I just hope I will remember who I was, this little bug on earth.

Known as "can_a_bus_dream" at http://futurehi.net/index.html

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecoopypants
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 194
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510360 - 01/29/07 10:13 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
You're joking right?

Can you find a single certifiedphysician who advocates psychedelic drug use? Maybe a few nuts, but the average doctor, no. This is for a reason. They know that it is merely a drug that poisons your brain and body--you're body temporarily doesn't work to its maximum efficiency.





physicians study the body physiologists study the mind. Many physiologists have done great work with physcadelic drugs. Hell AA was started buy a dude who was cured by lsd.
you need to do some more research on the chemicals your talking about. if drugs are only poisoning your brain why are the cannabainoid receptors in the brain, i mean its specifically designed to bind with cannabinoids, if it was a poison we would have evolved without it. The chemical structure of the various compounds is proof enough, they are designed to act as normal occurring chemicals in the brain. So i guess you'd say a rush of serotonin or having to little is poison as well.



the author does make a good claim for moderation, and Pinchbeck hasn't really come up with anything new. but obviously has only listened the propaganda and has not made is own decesion on the subject. but granted he's most likely flip out.

the whole 2012 thing is pretty easy to believe. i mean hell if you make it to 2013 shit the messiah must have returned.

Edited by coopypants (01/29/07 10:19 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCymbaline
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Oz
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510401 - 01/29/07 10:22 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:

But you can't argue with the science that tells us how the drug works, and its effects on the brain. I've asked several physicians about psychedelics and they've all told me the same thing. It is a mind-altering drug, and nothing more.




Just how do these drugs work? I have never seen a satisfactory explanation either way....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,947
Last seen: 6 hours, 54 minutes
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: coopypants]
    #6510421 - 01/29/07 10:27 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

coopypants said:
physicians study the body physiologists study the mind.





Psychologists** They are the ones who study the mind. Physio = physical aspects.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecoopypants
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 194
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Cymbaline]
    #6510435 - 01/29/07 10:30 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

"The question of how these agents produce their striking alterations of consciousness has long fascinated brain researchers. The first clue was that LSD, psilocybin, DMT, and many other psychedelics bear a close structural similarity to the neurotransmitter serotonin. Research in the 1970s showed that LSD temporarily suppresses the firing of serotonin-releasing neurons of the raphe nuclei (Rechs & Rosecrans, 1982), a part of the brainstem reticular activating system. These neurons send axons into widespread regions of the cerebral cortex and limbic system, where they release serotonin when active. Because the raphe nuclei also go silent during REM sleep, the notion that the psychedelic state represents “dreaming while awake” became the standard account. However, subsequent research contradicted this interpretation by showing that LSD and other psychedelics act postsynaptically as agonists at 5-HT2 Homosapiens is the only species that will voluntarily take a psychadelic drug again after experiencing its effect receptors (Jacobs, 1987), the most common serotonin receptors in the brain. The silencing of the raphe nuclei was due to LSD’s agonist action at presynaptic autoreceptors (inhibitory 5-HT1) on the serotonin-releasing cells. Autoreceptors serve a negative feedback function such that the neurotransmitter (in this case serotonin) inhibits its own release when extracellular levels are too high. LSD thus acts like serotonin both presynaptically and postsynaptically, inhibiting serotonin release via inhibitory 5-HT1 autoreceptors while simultaneously activating excitatory postsynaptic 5-HT2 receptors; only the latter action is relevant to the psychedelic state (Feldman, Meyer & Quenzer, 1997). This interpretation was bolstered by the finding that serotonin antagonists can block psychedelic effects. Recent PET scans of volunteers under the influence of psilocybin showed hyperactivity of the frontal and occipital lobes, especially in the right hemisphere, presumably reflecting strong activation of excitatory 5-HT2 receptors in the cortex (Vollenweider et al., 1997). But how and why these brain changes translate into psychedelic experiences are questions as difficult as the mind-body problem itself."
http://sci-con.org/2003/06/the-neurochemistry-of-psychdelic-experiences/
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/795_psyche.html/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecoopypants
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 194
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Kickle]
    #6510443 - 01/29/07 10:31 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

coopypants said:
physicians study the body physiologists study the mind.





Psychologists** They are the ones who study the mind. Physio = physical aspects.




spell check on that one, i swaer :-)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegogrowgo123
all the same

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 249
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: moho456]
    #6510531 - 01/29/07 10:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

i think maybe you're basing too much on that guy they talk about in the interview. I mean that is an extreme, and not many people even here would take what that guy says to be the real deal. to me he sounds a little schizophrenic, just by the way he has such an in depth kind of "world" that he has created for himself.


some people find it very spiritual and enlightening and almost like a religious thing. at the same time try to remember there are people who base their faith on events written about in a book. im not saying either of them are wrong or bad or anything, as either can be an amazing thing if you actively believe and get involved.

lets keep debating this, but try not to make it so personal.


--------------------
"For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: coopypants]
    #6510533 - 01/29/07 10:57 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

What kinda of fagot do you have to be to engage in such a topic that is fruitless and quiet frankly mundane.. take your pussy eating, pickle puffing, psychedelic spun asses some where else and bitch about, whether psychedelic experiences are real or just a malfunction of our neuro transmitters interacting with psilocybin... Of course psychedelic experience's are real.. THEY ARE A DIRECT RESULT OF A CHEMICAL INTERACTING WITH THE BRAIN.. WHY IS THAT SO MOTHER FUCKING HARD TO UNDERSTAND YOU, QUEER ASS MUNCHING SONS OF BITCHES!



LOL just playing I'm pretty stoned, What do i know..

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff420
Skitso
Male
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 50
Loc: dream scape
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: CaptainCrunch]
    #6510597 - 01/29/07 11:16 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I guess Captain crunch is right, what I am trying to figure out is not going to get me anywhere, though psychologists and physicists are probably better equipped to debate my psychedelic spun ass theory. But I like, it feels right some how.


--------------------
Every thing I type is a figment of my skitso dreams, I have never actually done any of the things I may type about, nor will I ever do them.

I don't remember when it was that I fell asleep. It must of been long long ago. I don't remember for what time I set my alarm clock, I'm not sure how long I've been dreaming now. But I guess thats whats important, that I am dreaming. I think I want to wake up, but I am never sure. I just hope I will remember this dream when I do, I just hope I will remember who I was, this little bug on earth.

Known as "can_a_bus_dream" at http://futurehi.net/index.html

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehot48yearolds
Dharmakaya
Male User Gallery
Registered: 09/21/04
Posts: 705
Loc: lazy river road
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: CaptainCrunch]
    #6510608 - 01/29/07 11:21 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CaptainCrunch said:
QUEER ASS MUNCHING SONS OF BITCHES!




ty


--------------------
"Truth is more in the process than in the result."
- J. Krishnamurti




"We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarleryCatooOO
Attained Insight
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 339
Loc: California, U.S.
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510613 - 01/29/07 11:22 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I used to believe deeply that psychedelic experiences were something bigger than just the effects of a drug.

I think people should read this article, I'm prepared for massive criticism...

Don't get me wrong, I still like shrooms once in awhile, love growing them, love mushrooms, but come on... When you get down to it, its just a drug that creates "a false reality created by a misfiring brain".

I do believe the use of psychedelics can be very helpful however, if used under a staged environment and in the presence of a professional psychiatrist leading you.

I personally have been reading about new quantum theories (super string theory, M-Theory etc.) and I do believe that one day physics will be able to explain the deepest questions man has pondered... I highly suggest reading 'The Elegant Universe' by Brian Greene, for those of you who haven't already... truly fascinating.





i do agree with you on some point, but overall, using physchedelics for me has deffinetly had a positive impact in my life. They have made my life more meaningful and i realize to savor ever moment i can at the moment. Im just a happy guy due to these wonderful gifts.


--------------------
:yinyang: *Good Vibes* :yinyang:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: hot48yearolds]
    #6510615 - 01/29/07 11:22 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I try...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMr_Spliff420
Skitso
Male
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 50
Loc: dream scape
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: CaptainCrunch]
    #6510629 - 01/29/07 11:27 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been trying to remember who wrote that book. I hope its in the library. Gota go return "Hyperspace" by Michio Kaku, and "Zen, the ultimate experience" by Allan Watts.

Ive also wanted to read "Programming the Universe" any idea who wrote that?


--------------------
Every thing I type is a figment of my skitso dreams, I have never actually done any of the things I may type about, nor will I ever do them.

I don't remember when it was that I fell asleep. It must of been long long ago. I don't remember for what time I set my alarm clock, I'm not sure how long I've been dreaming now. But I guess thats whats important, that I am dreaming. I think I want to wake up, but I am never sure. I just hope I will remember this dream when I do, I just hope I will remember who I was, this little bug on earth.

Known as "can_a_bus_dream" at http://futurehi.net/index.html

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510683 - 01/30/07 12:00 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
Can you find a single certifiedphysician who advocates psychedelic drug use? Maybe a few nuts, but the average doctor, no. This is for a reason. They know that it is merely a drug that poisons your brain and body--you're body temporarily doesn't work to its maximum efficiency.





www.maps.org
www.hefter.org

The reason doctors don't advocate psychedelics is because they are illegal, and furthermore it is illegal to do research with them so nobody knows anything about them who wasn't around 30 years ago.

There are however many psychiatrists and researchers who are interested in using MDMA for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Depression and Terminal Anxiety. Psilocybin is currently being studied for use with OCD and people with terminal cancer. Both LSD and psilocybin are very promising medicines for cluster headaches, and LSD as well as the african root Ibogaine have shown miraculous success for substance addiction. Even Ketamine is supposed to be a very effective tool for treating depression.

In fact LSD, Psilocybin and MDMA all entered our society through psychiatry and research. Physicians were using these before anyone else.

As for them poisoning your body, I would stay away from coffee and alcohol too. Actually both alcohol and nicotine are far worse for your body and mind than any psychedelic. Tylenol and Advil can damage your liver, and antidressants can mess up your brain too. Most people don't call these poisons. Even too much antiobiotics can kill you.

Lastly, as others have stated psychedelics don't cause true hallucinations. The guy who wrote the article has obviously never used one, and his entire justification for criticizing them is because Daniel Pinchbeck sounds too New Age for him. Well what about Albert Hoffman, or Aldous Huxley (whom he praises) or Alexander Shulgin? These people all used psychedelics and non of them believe in the Mayan calender.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510723 - 01/30/07 12:16 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:

Don't get me wrong, I still like shrooms once in awhile, love growing them, love mushrooms, but come on... When you get down to it, its just a drug that creates "a false reality created by a misfiring brain".




I have a problem with what you're saying.

Your view of reality, whether or not you're under the influence of a drug, is always an interpretation of reality. Full blown hallucinations are relatively rare on psychedelics, meaning that most people recognize that the altered perceptions caused by psycehdelics are just distortions or altered perceptions. Generally, psychedelics just change the way you see reality and don't cause you to see an entirely false view of reality.

To say that psychedelics cause neurons to "misfire" is more of a value judgement than an accurate statement. Just because a psychedelic changes how neurons operate doesn't mean that their new behaviour is 'wrong.' I do think that psychedelics do tend to cause more misperceptions than one would experience while sober, but users are typically aware that this is the case. Whether or not someone thinks that their altered view is more or less valid isn't only a function of the drug: some people go into the experiences expecting a "deeper" (or more truthful) view of reality and some don't.

Quote:

I personally have been reading about new quantum theories (super string theory, M-Theory etc.) and I do believe that one day physics will be able to explain the deepest questions man has pondered...




I doubt it. I think that science can't touch many of the most compelling questions that humans ask themselves, such as, "Why does anything exist?" Or "What is morally right or morally wrong?" Science produces our best working models of the universe and that's all. Science can propose a theory of everything but it can never provide proof of a theory of everything. Though questions relating to how the physical world works are compelling, I don't think that they represent the most compelling questions of existence.


Quote:

I highly suggest reading 'The Elegant Universe' by Brian Greene, for those of you who haven't already... truly fascinating.




Personally, I thought the book was okay, but not that good.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCymbaline
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 180
Loc: Oz
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: coopypants]
    #6510726 - 01/30/07 12:19 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

coopypants said:
But how and why these brain changes translate into psychedelic experiences are questions as difficult as the mind-body problem itself."




Thank for the reply. I have done plenty of reading, but it still seems to me that exactly how these drugs cause the changes in consciousness that we experience remains a bit of a mystery... :smile:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6510743 - 01/30/07 12:28 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
You're joking right?

Can you find a single certifiedphysician who advocates psychedelic drug use? Maybe a few nuts, but the average doctor, no.




Are you just pulling this out of your ass?

Physicians probably don't advocate psychedelic drug use because research on them has been so limited that there is noknown medical application for these drugs. However, there is credible evidence to suggest that some psychedelic drugs may have medical uses. Though physicians generally may not advocate psychedelic drug use, many scientists certainly feel that there is good justification for further research into the possible medical applications of these drugs.

BTW, ketamine is a psychedelic drug and physicians do advocate its use, only not as a psychedelic. When a physician administers ketamine to a human, the dose is roughly ten times higher than what is needed for full blown psychedelic effects.

Quote:

This is for a reason. They know that it is merely a drug that poisons your brain and body--




That is nonsense.

Quote:

But you can't argue with the science that tells us how the drug works, and its effects on the brain.




I'm a scientist and I'm telling you that what you're saying about "misfiring" isn't really accurate because it is a value judgement. Scientists tend to describe the effects on psychedelics in terms that don't imply "right" or "wrong": for example, LSD is often described as a 5HT2A partial agonist, not as a drug that causes "brain misfiring."

Quote:

I've asked several physicians about psychedelics and they've all told me the same thing. It is a mind-altering drug, and nothing more.




Sounds like an appeal to authority to me (which is a logical fallacy).

What did you ask them?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: moho456]
    #6510747 - 01/30/07 12:32 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

moho456 said:
LSD is the best treatment available for cluster headaches and migraines





I've seen evidence suggesting that it may treat these ailments but nothing even remotely convincing that it is "the best treatment available." Maybe people on both sides of the argument should stop exaggerating to such silly extents.

Also, someone else asked, "How many physicians have smoked DMT?"
It doesn't matter. Personal experience with these drugs does not mean that you are in a priveledged position to know whether or not they are poisoning your brain. You can't feel your brain being poisoned and the only way to determine whether or not a drug is killing brain cells is to check with a microscope. Please stop making such ridiculous arguments.

Also, regarding what science can tell us about consciousness, well, it can tell us what the physiological correlates of consciousness are. I read an interesting article about a small group of neurons that fired every time someone's perception of a visual illusion shifted. If you don't find science's explanations about consciousness or how psychedelics work, then I will only remind you that science produces the best working models of reality that we have. Whether or not you are satisfied with the extent of those models doesn't change this. Also, if you aren't satisfied with some of the explanations about the workings of psychedelic drugs then I suspect you haven't done enough research. I have been blown away by the research being done on 5HT systems, schizophrenia and NMDA antagonists. Lately, a link between NMDA antagonists (like PCP, ketamine and DXO) and "classical" hallucinogens has been found. Much of this research was stimulated by interest in finding novel antipsychotics. Nonetheless, whether you like it or not, science still produces the best working models of the world, including consciousness that we have. If you aren't satisfied, then why don't you try contributing to the research instead of complaining?

Also, I don't see how you can babble about someone else's post being scientifically meaningless and then go on to say "you make your own reality." Do I really need to point out to you how meaningless that statement is? If you make your own reality, then what is the point in arguing over anything? Nobody would possibly be able to demonstrate any statement false in such a case, so that statement is useless. Really, what you seem to be trying to do is to simultaneously criticize someone else's position while putting yourself in a position that doesn't need to be defended, because it can't be shown wrong by default. If you want to have meaningful conversations, then I suggest that you acknowledge that you share reality.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCaptainCrunch
Contrary ToPopular Belief

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 934
Loc: Somwhere Over the rainbow
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6510762 - 01/30/07 12:38 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

And then God said,"LET THERE BE FAGOT'S" ^^^^^

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Cymbaline]
    #6510784 - 01/30/07 12:51 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cymbaline said:
Quote:

coopypants said:
But how and why these brain changes translate into psychedelic experiences are questions as difficult as the mind-body problem itself."




Thank for the reply. I have done plenty of reading, but it still seems to me that exactly how these drugs cause the changes in consciousness that we experience remains a bit of a mystery... :smile:




Yes.  Though I have a point to make about this.  Many people (and I don't mean here) have pointed to the fact that what consciousness is seems extremely hard to define and thus it would seem that scientific hypotheses regarding consciousness can't be tested.  However, it has been pointed out that we can still ask ourselves, "What are the physical correlates of consciousness?" and form scientific hypotheses regarding that particular question.  Even if this doesn't seem to tell us what consciousness is, exactly, it would still be possible to produce accurate models of how consciousness correlates to physical reality (and thus predictions about consciousness could be made).  This, in principle, is how psychopharmacology can be seen and (as I stated before), whether you like it or not science still gives us the best model of consciousness that we have, precisely because scientists are their own fiercest critics and because hypotheses must be testable.

The cool thing is that more research on psychedelic drugs will allow us to shed more light on consciousness.  That is at least one reason that many scientists wish that research with psychedelic drugs was opened up.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecoopypants
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 194
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6511396 - 01/30/07 07:36 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Xtals said:
Quote:

moho456 said:
LSD is the best treatment available for cluster headaches and migraines





I've seen evidence suggesting that it may treat these ailments but nothing even remotely convincing that it is "the best treatment available." Maybe people on both sides of the argument should stop exaggerating to such silly extents.






lsd itself may not be the best for headaches, but ergot derivitivies (which are almost identical) have been used to treat headaches for a while now without the side effects of the walls melting.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6511444 - 01/30/07 08:05 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I really can't understand why you chose this particular article to support your view that "psychedelics damage the brain"

This was not a scientific study. It was the ramblings of someone who had an agenda.

To claim that this is "proof" of any kind is simply ignorant.

......and yea, you were stupid for posting it


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: niteowl]
    #6511475 - 01/30/07 08:18 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Captain Crunch, there's no need to base an argument on personal attacks, we've easily nuked this guy's bigotry with logic alone.

Good job everyone, for helping this guy see his view as the selfishness it is.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejewunit
Brutal!
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6511717 - 01/30/07 09:47 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru2.html

If it creates a temporary false reality but improves upon quality of life what does it matter? No prescription drugs (or non-prescription) create a "true" reality but they continue to get prescribed. Hell, antidepressants seem to create a longer false reality by altering the way your brain functions, but these things are okay. Honestly, you say you love shrooms, but you go on lambasting them, can you at least explain that one to all of us?


--------------------
!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMourningdove
Stranger
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 399
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6511763 - 01/30/07 10:02 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
http://actionskeptics.blogspot.com/2006/12/why-you-should-not-use-psychedelic.html

When you get down to it, its just a drug that creates "a false reality created by a misfiring brain".






This is the kind of anti-drug propaganda that creates un-needed fear of plant teachers.

The bottom line is entheogens open up a higer perception that some can attain without them, but it is true and real-more real than this guy is able to accept.

Please don't attempt to project your confused reality on the rest of us. You are really preaching to the wrong crowd. Mushrooms get us all in touch with inner truth. Anybody who tries to challenge that comes off as rather ignorant.

Your website is horseshit. No wait-horseshit is useful!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: jewunit]
    #6511897 - 01/30/07 10:45 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jewunit said:
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0603/features/peru2.html

If it creates a temporary false reality but improves upon quality of life what does it matter? No prescription drugs (or non-prescription) create a "true" reality but they continue to get prescribed. Hell, antidepressants seem to create a longer false reality by altering the way your brain functions, but these things are okay. Honestly, you say you love shrooms, but you go on lambasting them, can you at least explain that one to all of us?




:thumbup:



The brain itself creates false reality. That is its function.
This whole 'the real reality is the sober one' is utter nonsense, founded on nothing but self-righteousness, pure and simple.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Mourningdove]
    #6511898 - 01/30/07 10:45 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

<<I do believe the use of psychedelics can be very helpful however, if used under a staged environment and in the presence of a professional psychiatrist leading you.>>

How bogus and frankly, idolatrous. Which psychiatrist do you worship? (heh-heh)

OK - 2 cents and I'm outta here...

1) Either neurotropics (and specifically mushrooms on my part at least) either have powerful and extremely beneficial "medical" benefits, or, I have magical powers! (heh-heh)

2) I actually AM a physician that has done a lot of work in this and contributed it for publication. What brain damage? They actually increase IQ in many cases!

3) This whole current "psychedelic" thing is just a complete repeat of what happened in the first "psychedelic enlightenment" and each of the current players is actually just an imitator of what has already been said and done by others (Yes, this can be checked out....example? "Give cancer patients psilocybes so they can bullshit themselves into thinking it's OK to die!" - perfect mirror of Joan Halifax days and the LSD therapy clinics of old! My contribution to this crappo I thought was true and clear "Why not just treat the cancer with the psybes and no bullshit or dying needed?"...)

4) I only said these things because this guy posted some heinously stupid and rotten stuff, IMHO and all of it is, medically speaking, "old news." already known. Been doing it for years. Something else going on that this current "re-enactment" is supposed to serve. Suckers for propaganda always fall for it...hopers for light always get pissed. Sadder for the propaganda victims as they reveal no real brains, balls or spirit of their own which are important living features.

5) Link below takes you directly to Shroomery's Psilocybe Medicine thread. Best Wishes Always and happy shrooming! (Be careful, strive to be happy!)

Shalom~shalom


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePolyrhythmanaut
BaphometicServitude
Male

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 339
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6511970 - 01/30/07 11:11 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

"Nearly all physicians claim this, and science supports their claims."

ha! Have you ever heard of thing called direct experience? Of course all "physicians" agree because their only knowledge of the subject is the same text thats infested with decades of government spawned bias. Pretentious knowledge is a fallacy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineomnicrap
Stranger

Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 69
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Polyrhythmanaut]
    #6512025 - 01/30/07 11:32 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

There is plenty science knows about how psychedelic drugs work, but the OP and the author of that blog obviously don't know shit about it.

now this is a real article about psychedelics, not some rant by an unqualified ignorant jackass

"Hallucinogens are generally considered to be physiologically
safe molecules whose principal effects are on consciousness.
That is, hallucinogens are powerful in producing
altered states of consciousness (ASC), but they do so at
doses that are not toxic to mammalian organ systems. There
is no evidence that any of the hallucinogens, even the very
powerful semisynthetic LSD, causes damage to any human
body organ."

Edited by omnicrap (01/30/07 11:45 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCepheus
Balance
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: omnicrap]
    #6512063 - 01/30/07 11:48 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I'm pretty sure Rick Strassman M.D advocates the use of psychedelic drugs in psychiatry.

The person who wrote that blog has obviously never done these drugs.

The drugs don't tell you anything, its you that does the work. The drugs just allow for normal thought barriers to be breached.

Quote:


Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water.
The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken.
Although its light is wide and great,
The moon is reflected even in a puddle an inch wide.
The whole moon and the entire sky
Are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass.





My point being drugs help you realise.

A good quote would be from Dr. Susan Blackmore, a psychologist

Quote:


Are drugs the quick and dirty route to insight? I wanted to try the slow route, too. So I have spent more than 20 years training in meditation - not joining any cult or religion but learning the discipline of steadily looking into my own mind.

Gradually, the mind calms, space opens up, self and other become indistinguishable, and desires drop away. It's an old metaphor, but people often liken the task to climbing a mountain. The drugs can take you up in a helicopter to see what's there, but you can't stay.

In the end, you have to climb the mountain yourself - the hard way. Even so, by giving you that first glimpse, the drugs may provide the inspiration to keep climbing.





http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6489412/an/0/page/1

Read that.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6512660 - 01/30/07 02:46 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
<<I do believe the use of psychedelics can be very helpful however, if used under a staged environment and in the presence of a professional psychiatrist leading you.>>

How bogus and frankly, idolatrous. Which psychiatrist do you worship? (heh-heh)




I think what he's getting at is that the risks can be reduced by being in a controlled environment. He is suggesting that talk therapy under the influence could be productive, but you can't yet say that this is bogus or that he idolizes psychiatrists.

OK - 2 cents and I'm outta here...


Quote:

1) Either neurotropics (and specifically mushrooms on my part at least) either have powerful and extremely beneficial "medical" benefits, or, I have magical powers! (heh-heh)




I have a feeling that your evidence to support this claim is weak and that you've jumped to a conclusion. Please feel free to share with us how you came to this conclusion.

Quote:

They actually increase IQ in many cases!




I doubt that you have genuinely verified that.

Quote:

3) This whole current "psychedelic" thing is just a complete repeat of what happened in the first "psychedelic enlightenment"




Yes, and IMO, the psychedelic idealism movement is just as full as bullshit this time around as it was forty years ago. I do think psychedelics can have a positive impact, but I don't think they would have anything near a positive impact if people like you were the ones who were allowed to distribute or give advice on these drugs.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Polyrhythmanaut]
    #6512673 - 01/30/07 02:51 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Polyrhythmanaut said:
"Nearly all physicians claim this, and science supports their claims."

ha! Have you ever heard of thing called direct experience?




Whenever someone tries to claim that science overlooks direct experience, I get really offended. Science is all about only what can be experienced and nothing else. The very criteria for a scientific hypothesis is that is must be falsifiable by experience; that is, that it can be shown false by experience and that it can be tested intersubjectively. If you have an experience that shows scientific statements wrong, then if that experience can be repeated by others, then you have strong scientific grounds for demonstrating a scientific hypothesis false.

Please STFU with the implications that science "ignores" or "overlooks" direct experience. It doesn't do that at all. It does quite the opposite: science is all about experience.


Quote:

Of course all "physicians" agree because their only knowledge of the subject is the same text thats infested with decades of government spawned bias. Pretentious knowledge is a fallacy.




What you're saying may be true in some cases, but many doctors and scientists are able to see through the obvious government propaganda. Your blanket statements about all doctors is totally absurd.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecoopypants
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/27/05
Posts: 194
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6515339 - 01/31/07 06:21 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

" 3) This whole current "psychedelic" thing is just a complete repeat of what happened in the first "psychedelic enlightenment"



Yes, and IMO, the psychedelic idealism movement is just as full as bullshit this time around as it was forty years ago. I do think psychedelics can have a positive impact, but I don't think they would have anything near a positive impact if people like you were the ones who were allowed to distribute or give advice on these drugs. "

true but the difference between us and our parents is that our parents cared enough to try to make the world a better place for us. Its not the masses that needed to be introduced to psychedelics its captains of industry and world leaders. Psychedilia is so prommenant in our culture that no one is non the wiser, i mean look at children's programming on tv, or the music on the radio, its everywhere you look, but growing up like that, you don't realize it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: coopypants]
    #6553657 - 02/11/07 10:30 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

<<I have a feeling that your evidence to support this claim is weak and that you've jumped to a conclusion. Please feel free to share with us how you came to this conclusion.>>
Well you are ignorant. I have been in practice in this area for nearly ten years and am well published. I find you obtuse and not worth talking to.

<<I doubt that you have genuinely verified that.>>

Again, you seem to be just stupid and about 60 years behind in real knowledge and professional practice. I'm sorry for that but hacking at me just makes you look dumber.

<<but I don't think they would have anything near a positive impact if people like you were the ones who were allowed to distribute or give advice on these drugs. >>

Again, sorry about your condition. Are you actually educated and involved or are you just giving your ignorant and worthles opinion?

Xtals, I apologise but you really haven't said anything but wrong and stupid. Maybe you should go to college, do research and actual work or at least be around long enough to know something before running you value-less yap.
Insulting me or attempting to hack what I have said will get you nowhere. Up yours num nuts! :smile:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6553662 - 02/11/07 10:32 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Ignorant numb nuts! You spout about science and are wholly ignorant of it in it's current state!

Sorry everybody else! :smile: But we must stomp a foot at shroomery on mis-information and apparently miss information too.....
:psychsplit:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

Edited by curenado (02/11/07 10:44 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,376
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6553762 - 02/11/07 11:28 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Curenado, all he asked for was a simple reference. Preferably, one that is peer reviewed. Peer review is important because it prevents any single person with an internet connection from writing something and "publishing" it on a website.

This appears to be the case with all your "publications". None are on pubmed, and none have been published in any journal recognized by academia.

Yeah xtalis go to college. For $300 you can order an advanced degree through the mail and pretend to be a "doctor", just like curenado. Then you can order space on a server and pretend to be "published".


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6556177 - 02/11/07 10:09 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
Well you are ignorant. I have been in practice in this area for nearly ten years and am well published. I find you obtuse and not worth talking to.




You're talking to me now. All I asked for was something to back up what you're saying. Simply saying, "Xtals, you're ignorant." doesn't make you right and certainly doesn't make me ignorant.

Quote:

<<I doubt that you have genuinely verified that.>>

Again, you seem to be just stupid and about 60 years behind in real knowledge




I'm ignorant for asking you to provide evidence for something you claim to know? If you have verified something, then you should be able to provide evidence, shouldn't you?

Quote:

Are you actually educated and involved or are you just giving your ignorant and worthles opinion?




I have a BA in literature and a BSc in chemistry. I'm currently pursuing a PhD in structural biology.

Quote:

Maybe you should go to college




I have two university degrees, like I just pointed to above. I wouldn't bring them up if you didn't ask, because I don't think that my education makes my opinion right. Facts speak for themselves, or arguments should use facts to make a point. All you've done is insult me without providing facts. I currently am pursuing a PhD in structural biology, so that means that I go to a university and do research in a lab five days a week.

Quote:

Ignorant numb nuts! You spout about science and are wholly ignorant of it in it's current state!




You absolutely disgust me. Don't make assumptions like that.

I am a scientist. Are you?
I do real research in a real laboratory. Do you?

This appears to be the case with all your "publications". None are on pubmed, and none have been published in any journal recognized by academia.

That's a good point though I feel that contesting that here is futile. I've seen his medicine thread and as far as I can tell, he's just telling people what they'd want to hear. I don't see anything backing up any of his claims. A few times he just sort of says that, "It's possible that this drug also potentiates psilocybe healing power . . ." Sure, anything is possible, but where's the evidence? Like I said, I have a feeling that contesting that kind of thread on this board wouldn't go very far, but people rate this guy for providing "valuable" information when, as far as I can tell, it could be made up out of thin air. I could just as easily make groundless claims that these mushrooms were bad for people, with as little evidence as he's provided, and I'm sure that I'd get a lot of angry responses, simply because the opinion would be unpopular. I just want to see evidence. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to understand that science relies on evidence and hypothesis testing.

IMO, many of his posts are downright groundless and even dangerous (not that any of his particular claims are necessarily wrong; I can't disprove them, of course, because I haven't looked at the evidence, but that's precisely the problem - he's not providing any evidence for anything). It's too bad that people are willing to agree with his groundless opinions without the least bit of skepticism. And, to be completely honest, that's why I'm so fucking arrogant around here. If more people were more skeptical, then I'd have a lot more respect.

I do try, however, to reference what I claim.

Edited by Xtals (02/12/07 12:03 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStreetFreak
smellin' like a plant

Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 946
Loc: locked in a place where n...
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6557094 - 02/12/07 02:36 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

One thing that gets me is the HUGE lack of knowledge about psychedelics, and actual experience with them by the majority (I'm guessing 95%+) of people who are so out against them they'll do anything they can to turn everyone else against them. In the end, what the fuck do they know? They haven't even done the shit once.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: StreetFreak]
    #6557848 - 02/12/07 11:55 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

StreetFreak said:
One thing that gets me is the HUGE lack of knowledge about psychedelics, and actual experience with them by the majority (I'm guessing 95%+) of people who are so out against them they'll do anything they can to turn everyone else against them.




I'm not sure if I understand your sentence. What exactly are you saying? That 95% of the people who haven't done them are against them?

I rarely run in to people who give a shit either way if they lack knowlededge, so I'm not sure the kind of people you're talking about.

Quote:

In the end, what the fuck do they know? They haven't even done the shit once.




And I hate when motherfuckers think that suddenly they're experts just because they've taken a drug once, ten times or five hundred times. You don't know what it does to your liver, brain, etc. just because you've eaten it. I know this goes against what you think, but I believe that a person who's never done these drugs can know a lot more about them. Use your fucking brain: eating them doesn't make you an expert. It doesn't make you know jack shit.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStreetFreak
smellin' like a plant

Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 946
Loc: locked in a place where n...
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6557965 - 02/12/07 12:26 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Xtals said:
Quote:

StreetFreak said:
One thing that gets me is the HUGE lack of knowledge about psychedelics, and actual experience with them by the majority (I'm guessing 95%+) of people who are so out against them they'll do anything they can to turn everyone else against them.




I'm not sure if I understand your sentence. What exactly are you saying? That 95% of the people who haven't done them are against them?

I rarely run in to people who give a shit either way if they lack knowlededge, so I'm not sure the kind of people you're talking about.

Quote:

In the end, what the fuck do they know? They haven't even done the shit once.




And I hate when motherfuckers think that suddenly they're experts just because they've taken a drug once, ten times or five hundred times. You don't know what it does to your liver, brain, etc. just because you've eaten it. I know this goes against what you think, but I believe that a person who's never done these drugs can know a lot more about them. Use your fucking brain: eating them doesn't make you an expert. It doesn't make you know jack shit.




Firstly I'm saying that most people against the use of psychedelics don't really know much about them at all. When the use of LSD, psilocybin etc. were allowed for research, tons of reports were put out on how beneficial they were to the patients, be it alcoholics or people with mental disorders or w/e. In fact, I research all of my drugs before I do them, so I do infact know what the fuck they do and can do to my body, kthx.
Secondly I hate when "mother fuckers" go off on tangents about how stupid people are because of things they never said. I didn't say I was a fucking expert on drugs because I ate them. And thank you captain obvious, of course somebody can fucking know more about a drug then someone whos taken it, that doesn't mean shit. The people who know about the drug the effects, how it works in your body AND have done it know more then anybody whos taken it and doesn't know a thing about it, or who has never taken it but supposedly knows all about it in and out. How many fucking DEA agents or cops do you think have ate a fucking blotter of acid or shroomed, I'm betting most all of them never have, but they wont hesitate to throw your ass into fucking jail over it, just because its "bad" cuz "they" say so.
And if you think somebody can be an expert on psychedelics without trying them once, then you must not have much experience with them at all. GL trying to explain how the experience of acid, shrooms, or even DMT, etc. really is to someone who's never done it. Let alone have someone who's never done it describe the experience to someone else who's never done it. Maybe you should work on comprehending what someone said before you go off on wild fucking tangents.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: StreetFreak]
    #6558810 - 02/12/07 03:50 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

StreetFreak said:
Firstly I'm saying that most people against the use of psychedelics don't really know much about them at all.




Well, the way you put it in the end makes it pretty clear that you think that you have to have taken these drugs to even understand them. ("What do they know? They haven't even done it once.") That implies that you think doing them helps you learn about them, which isn't necessarily the case.

Quote:

When the use of LSD, psilocybin etc. were allowed for research, tons of reports were put out on how beneficial they were to the patients




And genereally it is not the people using the drug who are reporting on their benefits. The subjects take the drug while the investigators (who don't take it) are reporting on the benefits. That was my point: taking these drugs doesn't tell you jack shit about them (other than, obviously, how they affect you in a very subjective manner).

Quote:

In fact, I research all of my drugs before I do them, so I do infact know what the fuck they do and can do to my body, kthx.




Right and this exactly my point. You implied that people who are against these drugs are against them because they've never used them. Yet, you have just said that you researched them before using them. Hence, at some point you concluded that either these drugs were safe or possibly beneficial at a point when you'd never used them. This is all I'm saying: using them doesn't tell you much about them.

You implied: People who are against these drugs and haven't used them are against them because using them is an indication of their safety, value, etc. (yes, you did imply this: what the fuck do they know? They haven't even done the shit once. ) I am contradicting that implication. You have just contradicted that implication in this post I'm responding to.

Maybe your implication was the result of not phrasing things carefully, but I don't see how that can be the case. You obviously implied it, so I called bullshit on it.

Quote:

I didn't say I was a fucking expert on drugs because I ate them.




I know. You implied that people who are against these drugs don't know anything about them because they've never done them.

Quote:

The people who know about the drug the effects, how it works in your body AND have done it know more then anybody . . . has never taken it but supposedly knows all about it in and out.




I completely disagree. Taking the drug doesn't tell you anything about it other than how it will affect you. If what you're learning is completely subjective, then it has no application to anyone else and hence we can't know if it has any relationship to the substance. If, on the other hand, what you learn from it can be objectively recorded (such as blood pressure, symptoms, etc.) then other people can also be made aware of that information and thus know just as much about the drug. Taking the drug doesn't give you a priveleged position on understanding it. You might understand yourself a little better, but certainly not the drug. What you're saying is false.

Quote:

How many fucking DEA agents or cops do you think have ate a fucking blotter of acid or shroomed, I'm betting most all of them never have




So? Do DEA agents claim to be experts on the drugs? I've talked to cops who will admit that they don't know the first thing about any given drug. They're doing their job and what they think is right, which is a separate issue. I've talked to cops and told them that they're misinformed and they listen to me, but that doesn't mean that they're going to stop doing their job. You're not making any point.

Quote:

just because its "bad" cuz "they" say so.




That's an assumption and an idiotic one at that.

Quote:

And if you think somebody can be an expert on psychedelics without trying them once, then you must not have much experience with
them at all.




Go fuck yourself. You have no right to make those assumptions. I've done acid around 30 - 40 times, shrooms around the same number of times, ketamine about 100, DXM about 400, ether, chloroform, MDMA, salvia, cocaine, etc.

Your argument is idiotic and I'm sick of hearing this bullshit argument. If there is some aspect of a drug that can't be understood unless you take the drug, then this means that this property can't be communicated. If you can't communicate that property, then it is not objective. Hence, what you're "learning" about the drug is purely subjective and applies to nobody but yourself (and thus, we also must reason may not be entirely related to the drug).

Quote:

GL trying to explain how the experience of acid, shrooms, or even DMT, etc. really is to someone who's never done it.




Good luck trying to explain how ANY experience really is, even if they have or haven't gone through that experience. All experiences might be unique. We can't know that, but we can agree that certain aspects of experiences are the same.

Anyway, I don't see the use in explaining what the experience is "really" like. Who the fuck cares? What's the value of that other than for entertainment? Do it allow us to expand our scientific knowledge of the drug? By definition, no, it doesn't. I'm not particularly interested in metaphysical aspects of the drug experience.

Quote:

Let alone have someone who's never done it describe the experience to someone else who's never done it.




Wow, reading trip reports will certainly help the world become a better place, especially when those trip reports involve experiences that you are saying, by definition, can't be communicated to others. You're totally contradicting yourself.

Think of it this way. You're saying that I can only communicate my acid trip to someone else who has done the drug. How do you know this? Because the other person says they understand? What if someone who hasn't done the drug says that they "get it"? What right do you have to say that they don't "truly" get it? Because you say so? Because "everyone" knows that? But how does everyone know it?

Use your brain for one second.

If there is some experience that you can't possibly communicate to someone else, then there is no way to objectively test that experience's relationship to the substance you took. That is, you would not be able to scientifically test whether or not the experience was because of shrooms or not. Hence, you can't say that you're (scientifically) learning about the substance, because it can't be tested intersubjectively.

This is a fundamental principle of science. If you want to argue that you learn about the substance on a metaphysical level, then go ahead. I'm a scientist and not interested in flying spaghettin monster's that may or may not exist.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineaelephant
Stranger
Male

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 311
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6559111 - 02/12/07 05:00 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Wow, the Shroomery flamers have sure been busy...

Who will prove to themselves that they are right first?  :confused:


--------------------
As we live a life of ease,
Everyone of us has all we need
Sky of blue and Sea of Green
In our Yellow Submarine

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStreetFreak
smellin' like a plant

Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 946
Loc: locked in a place where n...
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: aelephant]
    #6559222 - 02/12/07 05:23 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Hell if I know, but since his first rebuttal to my original post he hasn't interpreted a thing I said correctly, making assumptions, putting words in my mouth, and being far from correct about what I was saying. So just like a few other people on here I wont be talking to this idiot any longer. Besides all that, he obviously knows it all!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeyehavenoi
bread basket

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 100
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: StreetFreak]
    #6559258 - 02/12/07 05:29 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

when i drink milk i see fractal patterns on my arms
somebody explain that one

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: StreetFreak]
    #6559275 - 02/12/07 05:33 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

StreetFreak said:
Hell if I know, but since his first rebuttal to my original post he hasn't interpreted a thing I said correctly, making assumptions, putting words in my mouth . . .




Then what exactly do you mean by "In the end, what the fuck do they know? They haven't even done the shit once. "?

I think what you were implying was pretty obvious and I responded to it.

If I'm "misinterpreting" you, then you should clarify. It is, however, very obvious that I pwn3d you and that you're just full of shit.

I hate it when people can't even own up to what they said. I interpreted your words in a very straightforward fashion. If you think I'm not understanding you, then you should re-read the posts. You even tried clarifying at some points and I made it clear to you that you didn't need to clarify (eg. you didn't say that you were an expert because you ate them).

You totally sicken me by your childish refusal to acknowledge that you're responsible for what you type. The only reason you'd bother ignoring me is because I obviously busted your puny ego. If you can't stand up to criticism, then that's tough shit.

Edited by Xtals (02/12/07 05:47 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStreetFreak
smellin' like a plant

Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 946
Loc: locked in a place where n...
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6559468 - 02/12/07 06:04 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I was simply stating that most people who speak openly against the use of psychedelics are largely misinformed, want an example? http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6558920/an/0/page/0.
Somehow you can develop 3 lengthy post on how stupid I am over this, as incorrect as you are. You obviously have some sort of anger control problem. Not only do you flame anyone who disagrees with what you say, you give them bad ratings, and send lame ass private messages about how much of a nigger they are because you have a super duper degree in literature. I hope your stay on this forum isn't long kid. Fin.

Edited by StreetFreak (02/12/07 06:22 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: StreetFreak]
    #6559961 - 02/12/07 07:33 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I was simply stating that most people who speak openly against the use of psychedelics are largely misinformed

And that they're misinformed because they've never used the drug. Thanks for finally (half) admitting what you said. Was it that hard?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineStreetFreak
smellin' like a plant

Registered: 02/10/07
Posts: 946
Loc: locked in a place where n...
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6560038 - 02/12/07 07:55 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Xtals said:And that they're misinformed because they've never used the drug. Thanks for finally (half) admitting what you said. Was it that hard?




I had a paragraph typed because every time you make a post you're not even correct about what I'm saying, so it makes me feel like I have a duty to explain myself. However, I feel if I continue this low IQ arguement any longer I'm going to become stupid, maybe stupid on your level. Maybe if you reread my original post a couple times you might get it. You and your 5 inch thick steel plate of a skull are on ignore.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemecreateme
YoUisMEEMsiUoY
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 2,727
Loc: Memphrica
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: StreetFreak]
    #6562492 - 02/13/07 11:12 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Xtals is a troll who used to go by the name Chemiker. If not its another righteous crazy scientist who won't accept anyone. You can never adequately sate his lust for argument.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: StreetFreak]
    #6562514 - 02/13/07 11:18 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

<< For $300 you can order an advanced degree through the mail and pretend to be a "doctor", just like curenado. Then you can order space on a server and pretend to be "published".>>
BadChad, you are wrong. the above is all BS. I don't pay anyone for anything, and trying to discredit me only works on folks who don't factually themselves know better.

<<This appears to be the case with all your "publications". None are on pubmed, and none have been published in any journal recognized by academia.>>

No chad, wrong again. The pub med crowd is sales propaganda anyway - educated and experienced people know that. I'm inyelligent and clear and everything I've ever allowed to be published is absolutely accurate and many "peers" review it. The public scene is NEVER where anything of quality or advanced r&d/tech goes on - I think you know this and are just mad at me.

Xtals has a BA and plays in E-coli, or so he says (which is unimportant work altogether. E-coli problem is "imaginary" - or rather, more of a concern for FBI or Homeland security...)

Xtals makes a point of being an asshole on shroomery and while I can be verified and am well known to have been a good contributor and outstanding physician he does really nothing that is of any real benefit to people at all. Besides, like I said, personality of a horse's ass.

Good, read the tassili medicine group thread! It is real and helps people everyday and that's what it is for! (While some "BA" can't even work at my facility or get near my patients, unless it's someone like eric_the_red who is intelligent and worthwhile.)

Do you get so mad and cuss so much because you are the lier Xtals? Or is it because private medicine and the quality sector are so fast outrunning yours that it's all you can do?
Because the truth is, your people won't contribute anything worthwhile for 6-10 more years, and they know it, but US medicine is running to the private sector as fast as it can go. Look up the statistics and trends for your own self, petri dish puppy! (heh-heh-heh)

Don't get mad people! Xtals folks will be stealing notes and trying to catch up to the quality crowd and where everyone else is going soon enough (if they have time that is....hint)
and everyone benefits freely from the private sector on shroomery while the Xtals are still trying to convince intelligent people that they really are doing something - that really will matter - someday.... and enough said.

Anyway, it's over for my part. I just snapped back because it was just and true and the last type of person I have to take any crap of any kind off of will be an "Xtals". Intelligent people should let this thread die and go on to more beneficial things.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

Edited by curenado (02/13/07 12:42 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6562555 - 02/13/07 11:29 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

You know, trying to trash my ratings only revela you as the "thing I said before" even more.
My "evidence" lives and breathes and walks around and has been laboratory verified. Your many words are you own verification!
Also - last thing - people who it "actually matters what they say" know me well and who cares about some no good to anyone plant (or puppet) who can't be visited personally, doesn't have any live, breathing, free and healthy patients, and who has yet to contribute anything anywhere of any merit while all of what I say can be very easily verified by anyone?
Again - dead thread and just another opp for Xtals to let all that e-coli that has obviously soaked into his blood run out of his mouth. This is his identity.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,376
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6562999 - 02/13/07 01:31 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Curenado, you pass yourself off as being "informed" and "knowing" but the truth is further from the matter.

Your degrees are from NON-accredited Universities.

This means your educational institutions could very well be completely made up. This also means they do not have to meet any academic standards whatsoever. This is why you can "sell" your degrees, they aren't worth anything. This is blatantly obvious by logging on to your website of the "Florida Mycology institute".

"Doctor’s Degree Course regularly $500.00 tuition. With this special sale, you only send $200.00!". For anyone interested, you can get a degree of equal worth here:

http://www.speedydegrees.com/

More importantly, this is a clear indication that you do not hold an M.D. degree. You are not licensed to practice medicine in any state in the U.S. You have not passed the "medical boards".

Yet you have stated on different occasions: "I am a physician". This is misleading and dangerous.

And if you've ever read a peer-reviewed scientific publication consisting of original reasearch scholarly articles they contain the following: An abstract, an introduction, a MATERIALS and METHODS, a conclusion, and references.

Your "publications" don't even have any references. My high school papers needed to include sources. It is clear, that you don't even have a grasp of what a publication is.

All major scientific advances are on pubmed. Every major scientific advance in the last 50 years is written up in journal form and then published, all on pubmed. Yet you say "the public scene is NEVER where anything of quality or advanced r&d/tech goes on"

I decided to do a search of the non-quality crap that is published on pubmed. Here is the paper on the structure of DNA, determined by Watson and Crick in 1953:[url=http://anonym.to/?http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=13168976&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=13168976&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum[/url]

No quality there. Just a minor scientific advance.

Pubmed is how research is done. Every researcher at an "accredited" (e.g. real) institution uses pubmed. Pubmed is the scientific standard. To publish there you need real credentials, and not bullshit your order for $200.

All anyone asked for was a real reference Curenado.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Edited by badchad (02/13/07 01:33 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinegooddrugguy
Male

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 527
Loc: Subjectiville
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: badchad]
    #6563104 - 02/13/07 02:12 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, so there is this one guy, filled with infinite knoledge. He is everything that has ever been, infinity in all directions, but at the same time he is still a whole bunch of thoughts. Suppose that one guy began to imagine; he began to imagine a world where there is water and land. You see, this guy is really good at imagining, but he has no way to look in at himself, being that he is just one guy. Our vision of ourself is largely based on the how others interprit you. So what does this guy decide to do? Split himself in half, and then again, and then again...to look at himself and understand himself. At the same time all of these shards of this one dude are only shards, parts of a whole. What is really hard to understand, and what I think psychedelics have showed me, is that while at the same there are all these shards, they are also one. Well, since this one guy is so good at imagining, all of the shards of himself are good at imagining too. The only thing is, they only see what the other shards see. They are incapable of piecing together all of the other shards to become that one big guy who knows everything. You see a tree because that one guy imagined a tree, and every other shards agrees with that one single imagination. By....

I don't even know what I am rambling about, I am just on psychedelics and looked through that article and it seemed so absurd. Just because we know what is happeneing when we get messed up doesn't mean we arn't experiencing something. You pop a mushroom and you mind just end up in that place between a shard and that one dude.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebudmanman
OTD Masterbater
Male

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 18,082
Loc: PNW
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6563145 - 02/13/07 02:28 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
You're joking right?

Can you find a single certifiedphysician who advocates psychedelic drug use? Maybe a few nuts, but the average doctor, no. This is for a reason. They know that it is merely a drug that poisons your brain and body--you're body temporarily doesn't work to its maximum efficiency.

I guess it was stupid of me to post this, it is impossible to change the minds of those who are convinced (due to their personal love of the drug and want for believing it as conscious opener). Sure, if I were a primitive native in south America with no knowledge of the sciences, I would believe the drug to be so... But you can't argue with the science that tells us how the drug works, and its effects on the brain. I've asked several physicians about psychedelics and they've all told me the same thing. It is a mind-altering drug, and nothing more.




They also know opiates are highly addicting and give em away like candy hooray for opiates patients.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6563685 - 02/13/07 05:11 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
The pub med crowd is sales propaganda anyway - educated and experienced people know that.




Nope. Many pubmed articles can be found for free and most articles on PubMed come from reputable journals that are peer reviewed. Are your journals peer reviewed by people with working scientific knowledge?

Quote:

everything I've ever allowed to be published is absolutely accurate and many "peers" review it.




Are your peers nutters like you? Do your articles also include experimental methods? If your articles at least document the experimental methods you used then at least someone could try to reproduce your results.

Quote:

The public scene is NEVER where anything of quality or advanced r&d/tech goes on -




You're an idiot.

Quote:

Xtals has a BA and plays in E-coli




And a BSc in chemistry and I'm pursuing a PhD. I do real research. My work involves recombinant DNA technology, plasmids, restriction enzymes, x-ray diffraction, protein crystallization, point mutations, etc. What kind of "research" do you do?

Quote:

(which is unimportant work altogether. E-coli problem is "imaginary"




You're really stupid. You're ASSUMING that I study E. coli. I do study E. coli, to some extent, but it's not at all the main focus of my investigation (the fact that I look at E. coli at all is almost incidental).

The only reason I use E. coli is to express recombinant proteins. E. coli is just a technology to me: it's not nearly the main object of my investigations.

Quote:

Xtals makes a point of being an asshole on shroomery and while I can be verified and am well known to have been a good contributor




Your contributions look like they're entirely made up.

Quote:

he does really nothing that is of any real benefit to people at all.




When did I tell you, specifically what I do? If you knew jack shit about recombinant DNA technology, which has been around for at least 30 years, then maybe you would have realized that I probably don't actually study E. coli, but simply 'hijack' it so that it produces the proteins I want to study. The proteins I look at are involved in virulence which are a major concern to human health. Some of the proteins I look at come from plasmids that can replicate within E. coli, but these plasmids are highly conserved and are found in a wide variety of organisms, not just E. coli. The proteins I study are involved in transferring antibiotic resistance between bacteria (no, that's not a major health concern is it?); transferring oncogenic proteins / DNA or virulence proteins to humans, animals and plants. Just an example of some of the organisms which my work is relevant to: Helicobacter pylori, which can cause ulcers and stomach cancer; Agrobacterium tumefaciens (crown gall disease in plants), Bordetella pertussis (causes whooping cough); Legionella pneumophila; and yes, Escherichia coli). You just assumed that the main object of my study was E. coli, which is wrong (though some of the proteins I look at are involved in deadly strains or antibiotic resistant strains of E. coli - and if you didn't know that E. coli also represents a concern to human health then you're a useless "doctor"). What I do is directly relevant to human health and in developing new molecular cloning technology.

Quote:

(While some "BA" can't even work at my facility




Like I said, I also have a BSc in chemistry and am getting a PhD in structural biology. Gee, it's funny that you decided to ignore my chemistry degree. I only brought up my degrees because you're the one who thinks that education is what makes someone right. If you really were a doctor, then you'd know that appealing to your degrees doesn't make you right. I have two degrees in very different disciplines. I'm far from a one trick pony. I certainly am proud of my education, but I don't pretend that having university degrees is what makes me more right than you.

Again, the extent of someone's education isn't what makes them right or wrong, and I wouldn't mention my degrees if it weren't for you asking. However, based on the way you spell, the way you argue, and the low quality of your "publications", I think the status of your education is obvious.

And (partly) to the jackass who called me a troll: like I said, it's not the extent of my education that I think makes me right. You can find threads where I admit to being wrong and when I do admit to being wrong, I don't ask the person what the extent of their education is. A person without a high school diploma could be right and a PhD/MD could be wrong. Education doesn't make you right (esp. fake degrees from non-accredited universities). I am far from a troll. I might be arrogant, but that's only because I make damn well sure that I think I'm right before posting.

Edited by Xtals (02/13/07 05:27 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCyric
Master of Time and Space
Male

Registered: 07/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Outer Shpongolia
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: MustardMan]
    #6567237 - 02/14/07 02:42 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MustardMan said:
When you get down to it, its just a drug that creates "a false reality created by a misfiring brain".

I personally have been reading about new quantum theories (super string theory, M-Theory etc.) and I do believe that one day physics will be able to explain the deepest questions man has pondered... I highly suggest reading 'The Elegant Universe' by Brian Greene, for those of you who haven't already... truly fascinating.




It's fascinating how you believe that shrooms just create a false reality when you completely believe in quantum physics.

Just because you can't always see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecurenado
73rd Man
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,603
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 10 months, 11 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Cyric]
    #6570630 - 02/15/07 12:31 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Xtals has really only made up a bunch of lies. I don't know why chad would say all that because I have a link to FMRC and I did take the mushroom course but that was to learn more about them. It doesn't even teach myco medcine. I never heard of his mail order degree site and mine isn't.
Check maps and relevant sites for references. What I have said stands all along...in fact, MOST of what I have said was pretty much already well known.
Anyway, this is pointless and has gotten visciously false -


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

Edited by curenado (02/15/07 01:21 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: curenado]
    #6570659 - 02/15/07 12:46 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

Be specific about what claims are on what site. What has been laboratory verified. Can you give references? Do you have any published articles? You say "check MAPS" but I don't see anything there that backs up your absurd claims.

It is completely obvious that you are not a scientist or a physician. You can hardly spell. You know nothing of science. You assumed that I investigated E. coli and when I pointed out the broad scope of my investigations, you didn't admit to being wrong or apologize, you just insisted that you were right.

Accusing me of lying is slander. How dare you accuse to report me for slander when you're saying that all I've done is to make up lies. I am not lying about my education or what I do and you have right to claim that I do. All I did was ask you for references.

All I want are references. Can you back up your claims about these drugs increasing IQ in many cases? Can you point to a real scientific article? Can you point to an article referenced by MAPS? All I've asked you to do is back up your claims. You have failed to do so. If your claims could actually be backed up, then you should easily be able to point to a SPECIFIC journal and article. If what you said had any evidence behind it, then it should be easy for you to say, "Yes, check The Journal of Whatever, a publication by these two guys, published in 1997, pages 10 to 22." You are completely unable to do so.

It is very obvious that you are not a scientist, nor are you a physician. I think that you are flat out lying to everyone and it completely disgusts me. IMO, you are a fraud. All I ask is that you back up what you're saying. Point to a journal article, whatever. It doesn't matter if you have 10 PhDs or if you don't have a high school diploma. If you can back up what you're saying then I'd be satisfied with that.



=======================================
Curenado has threatened to report me for slander, yet his rating of me is PURE slander:

Take your stink and rot with it! You suck like the E-coli you supposedly play in, you fake scientist


I am a real scientist. Don't accuse me of slander, while making up bullshit about me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: StreetFreak]
    #6570836 - 02/15/07 01:49 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I followed the link in Curenado's profile. Three degrees. Pretty good. Two from Rose Chapel College, which doesn't seem to exist as far as I can tell. I get 32 hits for it when I search Google and I certainly don't find any webpage for it. Some of the sites led to other sites that sell degrees ("based on what you already know"). A search through Google Scholar and PubMed for authors affiliated with Rose Chapel College came up with nothing. So, as far as I can tell, nobody from Rose Chapel College has ever published anything in the scientific literature, if Rose Chapel College even exists.

One degree from the Florida Mycology Research Center (FMRC). Google Scholar produced one hit: a self-published journal article. Nothing in peer reviewed scientific literature. What else is funny is that the FMRC sells Doctorate degrees. This is from the website:

Doctor’s Degree and One Year’s “TMC” subscription……….$200.00.

Curenado's credentials are obviously bogus. No scientific publications list anyone authors with corresponding addresses at Rose Chapel College or the FMRC.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleshroomhead0069
HIGH rankinghashmason

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 2,541
Loc: the lot
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: Xtals]
    #6570840 - 02/15/07 01:50 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

give up


--------------------
where my drugs at, poach monkey



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineXtals
Stranger
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 207
Last seen: 17 years, 23 days
Re: Article regarding psychedelics [Re: shroomhead0069]
    #6572020 - 02/15/07 07:04 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

I have a responsibility to point out what I think is obvious fraud.

If you don't give a shit about someone who's obviously lying, then that's your problem. STFU.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore Bulk Substrate   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* I wrote an article! "Psychedelic Mushrooms in the 21th Century" Asante 1,066 6 02/01/06 03:02 PM
by Jaeger
* Today in psychedelic history (05/05) LearyfanS 5,869 18 05/05/23 05:05 AM
by Learyfan
* Chemophilia with Alexander & Ann Shulgin [article] Asante 1,206 0 01/10/06 01:40 PM
by Asante
* The Psychedelic Experience Forum (Tripper's FAQ, Psychedelic Library and Rules) READ BEFORE POSTING! RoseM 14,075 7 10/06/16 10:36 PM
by PrimalSoup
* You shouldn't do psychedelic drugs, you're the reason why they are illegal in the USA
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Fluxburn 24,841 137 10/04/09 03:48 PM
by crayoladreams
* Synapse Misfires
( 1 2 all )
fltdriver82 4,302 21 05/16/09 10:14 AM
by Othyem
* Psychedelics and messed-up things that happened to you in the past. Asante 1,272 17 05/06/21 02:13 PM
by redgreenvines
* an article that tells us what its all about! Asante 1,356 5 05/05/06 07:47 PM
by the_psychonaut

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
11,490 topic views. 2 members, 22 guests and 29 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.062 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 14 queries.