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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505463 - 01/28/07 04:33 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

I do not believe you will be fat forever. If you do not have a genetic indicator which makes you fat, it IS only a matter of willpower to lose weight. It may be hard and it may take a great deal of time, but it will happen. One just sitting back and allowing it to happen is not going to solve any problems.

Everything you have said could also be applied to someone with a gambling addiction. If someone gets into it for a long enough time, they will not be able to stop. You wouldn't suggest that they should just keep gambling and deal with it, would you?


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Offlineimpgl
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6505467 - 01/28/07 04:34 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

I :heart:  being a bike messenger


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505479 - 01/28/07 04:37 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Because that's the reality that many obese people face.
Take a group of obese people. Flashforward to 2017, and most are worse off. Back to 2007 again. All this talk of hope and self-empowerment.
That happened to the obese of 1997, and they are worse off in our 2007. That happened to the obese of 1987, most of whom who were worse off in 1997. None of the positive thinking blabla worked for them. America is fatter than ever.




Who is talking about positive thinking? The reason that people who are obese typically do not stop being obese is because they do not change their patterns of behavior which are responsible for being obese. The fact that one is stuck in a rut implies that one will have to exert themselves to get out of the rut. The fact that this is true, that it will take a distinct change in behavior to seize the opportunity to not be obese is quite likely the reason that it doesn't happen - no will-power, once again.

Quote:


But genetics isn't as much the issue as is understanding that if you are fat enough for long enough, you will forever tend to put on weight thereafter. It is the obesity itself that breaks your metabolism, regardless of what brought it on. If you stuff your kid to be fat between ages 6-12, chances are that he'll be fat for life, regardless of genetics.




Chances are due to the fact that one continues to consume more energy than one is expending. Cut the calorie intake and start exerting oneself! Why isn't it that simple? If you take in more calories than you burn, then you take on more calories. If you take in less than you burn, then you are burning more calories. I'm not certain why we have to complicate the matter beyond that. :shrug:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: impgl]
    #6505484 - 01/28/07 04:39 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

I bet you do. I was going to suggest bicycling earlier in this thread. :thumbup:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Redstorm]
    #6505503 - 01/28/07 04:47 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

I do not believe you will be fat forever. If you do not have a genetic indicator which makes you fat, it IS only a matter of willpower to lose weight. It may be hard and it may take a great deal of time, but it will happen.





If you look at the statistics, it is clear that you are not being realistic. We can't all be billionaires. By the end of the day theres only one billionaire and ten million are not.

So how about stopping tormenting those ten million with promises of how willpower will get it done - when the statistics show that nearly all will not succeed?

I'm all for people taking charge of their own lives, that should be clear, but a large part of the problem is the insensitive and persecutory attitude society has towards people with this condition. It is downright inhumane and clear to be seen to all who honestly look at the cultural image of obesity.

It is this cruelty I am arguing against, and I am amazed once more at the hardened, trench warfare attitude of coldness that prevails on this topic, as it does on many others. The Shroomery used to be a warm welcoming place, nowadays it is tough on everything.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505520 - 01/28/07 04:53 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
So how about stopping tormenting those ten million with promises of how willpower will get it done - when the statistics show that nearly all will not succeed?




The reason they won't succeed is likely because they don't understand what the statistics mean, use them in the wrong context, and lack the willpower or fail to utilize it as an opportunity to develop willpower because they just sort of shrug lazily and look to rationalize it.

Quote:


I'm all for people taking charge of their own lives, that should be clear, but a large part of the problem is the insensitive and persecutory attitude society has towards people with this condition. It is downright inhumane and clear to be seen to all who honestly look at the cultural image of obesity.




Perhaps that attitude is prevalent, and it is troublesome that it is; however, it is simply one more excuse as to why one cannot assume personal power for themselves and initiate action to lead one's life in a responsible manner.

These people need help, yet the only way that change can be produced is through applying themselves. Give them the resources and understanding necessary to change themselves, and encourage them to get off of their ass and do it. :thumbup:

Quote:


It is this cruelty I am arguing against, and I am amazed once more at the hardened, trench warfare attitude of coldness that prevails on this topic, as it does on many others. The Shroomery used to be a warm welcoming place, nowadays it is tough on everything.




The "For shame!" bit is ineffective.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505523 - 01/28/07 04:53 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

That is an absolutely absurd comparison. Wealth is much more of a zero-sum game than weight, since there is a limited amount of currency at any one point.

While me having more money means that elsewhere someone else can't have that money, me losing weight does not prohibit someone else from losing weight. Making money is often outside the realm of will-power while obesity (not counting genetic dispositions) is not.

Also, there is always the option of not becoming obese in the first place. People need to have a little responsibility for their action for this to work, however.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Redstorm]
    #6505548 - 01/28/07 05:00 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Rationalization is a strange phenomenon...


--------------------
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For I've never known completeness
Like being here
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:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Redstorm]
    #6505559 - 01/28/07 05:05 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Perhaps that attitude is prevalent, and it is troublesome that it is; however, it is simply one more excuse as to why one cannot assume personal power for themselves and initiate action to lead one's life in a responsible manner.




Bullshit. It is done onto them. That is not their fault.

Quote:


Also, there is always the option of not becoming obese in the first place




Tell that to the 6yo that are round as barrels. Tell them about the option of making their own choices. Most seriously obese people were seriously obese before they were ten years old. Their metabolism was broken before their mind could object.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6505565 - 01/28/07 05:07 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:


Chances are due to the fact that one continues to consume more energy than one is expending. Cut the calorie intake and start exerting oneself! Why isn't it that simple? If you take in more calories than you burn, then you take on more calories. If you take in less than you burn, then you are burning more calories. I'm not certain why we have to complicate the matter beyond that. :shrug:


:

:thumbup:

It's easy to see the problem when Hubby has 2 Chineese restaurants that have buffets . Has nothing to do with the obese customers that have a plate heaped full of egg rolls and crab rangoons for an appetizer before moving on to their 4-5 heaping plates of dinner .

It's not so much how much you eat , but what you eat . And exercise .

When Hubby wanted to get in better shape 3 years ago , he started working out 4 days a week . He lost 35 pounds , from 215 to 180 , and the whole time he was eating over 4,000 calories a day . I was floored . He ate a 12 egg-white omelett and a 8 ounce chicken breast for breakfast every day , along with a protein shake .

He stopped working out almost 2 years ago , lowered his calories back to 2,000 a day and hasn't gained a pound back .

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony
:heart: Hippie Chick :mushroom2:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505567 - 01/28/07 05:07 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Care to address my post as a whole rather than cherry-picking?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Redstorm]
    #6505577 - 01/28/07 05:12 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Let's turn it around for a change.

Let's assume, like you and Fireworks do, that obese people have no willpower whatsoever.
Not a shred.

Well, what would be your solution then?


--------------------
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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Redstorm]
    #6505578 - 01/28/07 05:13 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Hey, some of that was my post too. :tongue:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Redstorm]
    #6505583 - 01/28/07 05:14 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

I have never seen an obese person, whom after getting to know, did not exhibit that their obesity was due to poor diet and lack of exercise expend. Not one person.

Food for thought. ha ha  :nonono:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505585 - 01/28/07 05:16 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Let's turn it around for a change.

Let's assume, like you and Fireworks do, that obese people have no willpower whatsoever.
Not a shred.

Well, what would be your solution then?




Gain some willpower. It's might be tough. They just gotta get off the couch to do it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505586 - 01/28/07 05:16 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Let's assume, like you and Fireworks do, that obese people have no willpower whatsoever.
Not a shred.

Well, what would be your solution then?




Take it as an opportunity to develop willpower. Begin to make decisions as to how one will act consciously. Start to take action.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Redstorm]
    #6505592 - 01/28/07 05:20 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:


Gain some willpower. It's might be tough. They just gotta get off the couch to do it.




Quote:


Take it as an opportunity to develop willpower. Begin to make decisions as to how one will act consciously. Start to take action.





In other words - you have no solution.

Overweight? Lose the weight.
No willpower? Develop willpower.
Heroin addiction? Quit using drugs.
Dying? Just don't die.

All this has just been an exercise in blabla.
How utterly useless.


--------------------
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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505595 - 01/28/07 05:21 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Or they can just die from complications of being overweight.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: Asante]
    #6505599 - 01/28/07 05:23 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
In other words - you have no solution.

Overweight? Lose the weight.
No willpower? Develop willpower.
Heroin addiction? Quit using drugs.





You're right! How could it ever be that simple? :shocked:

"Instead of eating the doughnut... set it... set it, down? What is this, some kind of trick?" :lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: On-Topic Fat Thread [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6505615 - 01/28/07 05:31 PM (17 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:


Chances are due to the fact that one continues to consume more energy than one is expending. Cut the calorie intake and start exerting oneself! Why isn't it that simple? If you take in more calories than you burn, then you take on more calories. If you take in less than you burn, then you are burning more calories. I'm not certain why we have to complicate the matter beyond that. :shrug:




Didnt I say this like, 8 hours ago?

I think we're talking ourselves in circles...

It boggles my mind how such a simple concept can cause so many people so much grief.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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