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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502685 - 01/27/07 06:54 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Quote:

leery11 said:
"you cannot transcend this earthly plane through meditation or psychedelics:"

what makes you so sure? these are tools of awakening yes?


They are tools of awakening, but awakening to what? How many people do you know who have meditated their way or psychedelicked their way to Formlessness? Unless you know someone who has suffocated himself doing advanced breathing exercises or overdosing on ketamine, I am guessing the likely answer is NONE.

The only thing to awaken to is the finite nature of your body and mind and the ability of the human mind to be simultaneously compassionate and self-serving. Psychedelics and meditation can help you awaken to what you already have, so they are good tools, but they will not help you attain Formlessness/En-Light-enment any more than rubbing one out or riding a bicycle blinfolded into oncoming traffic.




Meditation is part of the path of awakening. Cultivating mindfulness, awareness, one-pointedness is like creating the causes for the seed of enlightened potential to manifest i.e (awakening). In more direct schools of thought, it is said that meditation itself IS the expression of awakening.

In short, there is no need to throw out the baby with the bath water, and also, try not to denigrate what you do not understand.

Namaste :japsmile


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (01/27/07 08:25 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: badreligion2good]
    #6502688 - 01/27/07 06:56 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

BTW, nice post badreligion :thumbup:


--------------------


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Invisiblebadreligion2good
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Sinbad]
    #6502723 - 01/27/07 07:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

The reason I don't like discussing Buddhism on this forum is because of posters like the one who started this thread.

So many people want to come up with excuses not to meditate. They read some peace of popular literature that says we all have Buddha-nature, so they think they are Buddhas by default. This is not what Buddhism teaches, as I have understood it. So they say, I don't need to meditate since I am already aware of my Buddha-nature! But they aren't really aware. They were just told that they had Buddha nature, so they think they do. How can they know for sure till they experience it though? They can't KNOW, they can only THINK.

I have found this message board is not a good place to discuss the Dharma and that it is wiser to visit a Buddhist forum for more insightful posts regarding Buddha, meditation, and the Dharma.

One last thing! I'm no robot! I may function like a robot sometimes, but I'm no robot. Being a robot is a choice, its a lack of mindfulness. Robots aren't mindful of their actions, they just act out their programming. I am aware of my actions, and can take note of them and realize why it is I am doing them. I'm not functioning on social programming, unless its appropriate at the moment. Very unlike a robot. It doesn't surprise me that you think you're a robot though.


--------------------
All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


Edited by badreligion2good (01/27/07 07:22 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: badreligion2good]
    #6502754 - 01/27/07 07:29 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Ive always been of the opinion that the best place to plant seeds is in mud, not on stone.

Specific forums are where people have already discovered their paths, and want to know more. Places like the shroomery are where people are more open minded, and have spiritual inclination, so its much better for discussing general things. If im making a post about meditation or general mind related topics, then it can generate some interest in inner paths, or at least place causes where none existed.

S&P is a bit like a crossroads sometimes. People here are mostly intelligent open minded folk who are searching and contemplating the meaning of there existence. So its a very good place to plant seeds of all kinds.

P.S i don't think you a robot, you're a real boy! :lol:


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (01/27/07 08:27 PM)


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Sinbad]
    #6503189 - 01/27/07 10:39 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I should say that I don't mean for anything I say to be taken literally - take it as a metaphor leading to an allegory: by examining the way in which I interact with reality through linguistic metaphor, I am trying to create a refractory image of myself so that I may better understand my own place in reality's unfoldment. You may read my words and find no meaning in them, or find something with which you take issue - coming back to my words in a month, you may find a whole new meaning, or a whole new level of contempt for the metaphor which I have tried to unfold in this thread. Such is the nature of the Mind, the Transparent Mirror.

All I want anyone to take out of this is a little faith in the capacity for compassion to emerge out of unfoldments whose roots seem to be in 'self'ish desire.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: badreligion2good]
    #6503378 - 01/27/07 11:52 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badreligion2good said:
One last thing! I'm no robot! I may function like a robot sometimes, but I'm no robot. Being a robot is a choice, its a lack of mindfulness. Robots aren't mindful of their actions, they just act out their programming. I am aware of my actions, and can take note of them and realize why it is I am doing them. I'm not functioning on social programming, unless its appropriate at the moment. Very unlike a robot. It doesn't surprise me that you think you're a robot though.




This idea is entirely contingent on the idea that you have conscious free will. The idea behind bug claiming that everyone is a robot stems from an understanding that you are nothing without the experiences that make you something. Your path is inextricably tied to the experiences that make you choose that path. You cannot deviate from what you will decide. The decisions you make are based on the experiences that you have in order to make decisions. Although you may think that you could have acted differently in a situation when you look back this is in fact impossible. You are "programmed" by your experiences to act a certain way to certain stimuli. It is an inescapable fact that you are you and you cannot be anyone else. Your thoughts are controlled by the way you think which is a result of you combined experiences and nothing else. You may think that you think freely but that is only because your experiences make you think that you can think freely. Your brain is a machine and a computer and although "you" may be more than your brain, your brain is what controls your thinking and therefore your actions and the thoughts that inspire them.

That being said I don't believe that anyone will cease to exist. You exist now and everything else exist, if everything is made from the same basic energy then the best you can do is to rejoin everything, which you are already a part of.


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OfflineMrBuzin
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6503401 - 01/28/07 12:00 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I seem to be one of the robots that is hooked onto paranoia. Not that I want the paranoia! I hate it! But I really thought this was an interesting read... it changed my views on a lot of things, I kind of pondered it and realised... I make what I am

But.. and interesting thought. what if a robot is pre-programmed to not wake up? ooooooh

and question 2.... what makes paranoia a negative reaction in most, is it a negative reaction in all robots? boggling thoughts!@


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OfflineJstHereFrTheCake
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: MrBuzin]
    #6503506 - 01/28/07 12:38 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Syk0s3s said:
I seem to be one of the robots that is hooked onto paranoia. Not that I want the paranoia! I hate it! But I really thought this was an interesting read... it changed my views on a lot of things, I kind of pondered it and realised... I make what I am

But.. and interesting thought. what if a robot is pre-programmed to not wake up? ooooooh

and question 2.... what makes paranoia a negative reaction in most, is it a negative reaction in all robots? boggling thoughts!@





Plenty of robots are programmed to not wake up. How many people do you know that are closed minded and afraid of everything that challenges them. This is the paranoia that is being referred to, the idea that something that challenges what you think is evil. How many Christians do you know that instead of focusing on the positive aspects of Christianity like compassion and forgiveness, they focus on sin and hell. They condemn all other forms of spirituality that don't coincide preciously with what they know is true. Hell is an idea that stems from paranoia. Some of the them are so set in their program that no amount of experience to the contrary would change that. There are many other examples other than some Christians, I don't mean to single them out, but they are a good example.

As for why paranoia is bad. Fear is caused by ignorance and ignorance is the root of all evil. Fear is the cause of every war and every genocide. Fear has been used by governments and religious leaders to control populations into committing the worst atrocities in history. Fear clouds judgment and destroys empathy and compassion. Empathy is a result of knowledge and understanding and that is the only way to battle fear and ignorance.

I believe that it was Aristotle who said "Ignorance is the root of all evil" but I could be wrong... I don't want to take credit for something I've read somewhere else.

Perhaps this is not the paranoia you were thinking of, if you remain open minded and crave knowledge and other's points of view you can avoid the paranoia that destroys life.


Edited by JstHereFrTheCake (01/28/07 12:40 AM)


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: MrBuzin]
    #6504371 - 01/28/07 10:04 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Syk0s3s said:
I seem to be one of the robots that is hooked onto paranoia. Not that I want the paranoia! I hate it! But I really thought this was an interesting read... it changed my views on a lot of things, I kind of pondered it and realised... I make what I am

But.. and interesting thought. what if a robot is pre-programmed to not wake up? ooooooh

and question 2.... what makes paranoia a negative reaction in most, is it a negative reaction in all robots? boggling thoughts!@


It is true that many humans do not awaken to their higher nature on the earthly plane.

You are seeking. That's a great first step.

Paranoia arises from a fear of self-knowledge - id est, when you are afraid that there is something at your core, or at the core of your reality, which is rotten and should be suppressed and hidden. I can tell you that there is not, but you probably won't believe me until you see it for yourself.

Try picking up copies of The Bhagavad Gita and Ram Dass's Be Here Now: in tandem they are a powerful asset in constructing a personal metaphor for the Joyous Self.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisiblebadreligion2good
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6504461 - 01/28/07 11:25 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Or read the Sutras, and practice meditation to manifest your Buddha nature, rather than just think that you are a Buddha because Ram Daas said so. To think and to experience are different. For our Buddha nature to manifest itself it requires effort. As I said, our Buddha nature is but a seed that needs the right conditions to grow. If we don't tend to the seed, our Buddha-nature will never manifest itself.

I believe if you spoke to Ram Daas, or sent him your message, he too would find many faults in your thoughts. Like saying that our karma isn't our own, that meditation is not a path to liberation. Your view seems more nihilistic then Buddhist. You're saying you should pursue desires as you want because you're going to die anyways, and when you die you will cease to exist so why not indulge? Your "self" may cease, but your karma will not.

No, it is possible to get passed our programming, through meditation and mindfulness. Maybe you're a robot but I'm not. We can erase our conditioning with right effort. Just because you experience life as a robot does not mean that I do. If we couldn't by pass our programming, how could anyone discover their Buddha-nature? You're acting as though we can't overcome the reality which others have thought up for us. This doesn't seem true to me.

You are not a Buddha, you are not enlightened. Buddha means enlightened one. So you are not a Buddha. You are a robot. As you said. But you are a robot with the seed of Buddha nature itching to manifest itself. You can become a Buddha, with right effort.


--------------------
All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: badreligion2good]
    #6504540 - 01/28/07 12:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badreligion2good said:
Or read the Sutras, and practice meditation to manifest your Buddha nature, rather than just think that you are a Buddha because Ram Daas said so. To think and to experience are different. For our Buddha nature to manifest itself it requires effort. As I said, our Buddha nature is but a seed that needs the right conditions to grow. If we don't tend to the seed, our Buddha-nature will never manifest itself.

I believe if you spoke to Ram Daas, or sent him your message, he too would find many faults in your thoughts. Like saying that our karma isn't our own, that meditation is not a path to liberation. Your view seems more nihilistic then Buddhist. You're saying you should pursue desires as you want because you're going to die anyways, and when you die you will cease to exist so why not indulge? Your "self" may cease, but your karma will not.

No, it is possible to get passed our programming, through meditation and mindfulness. Maybe you're a robot but I'm not. We can erase our conditioning with right effort. Just because you experience life as a robot does not mean that I do. If we couldn't by pass our programming, how could anyone discover their Buddha-nature? You're acting as though we can't overcome the reality which others have thought up for us. This doesn't seem true to me.

You are not a Buddha, you are not enlightened. Buddha means enlightened one. So you are not a Buddha. You are a robot. As you said. But you are a robot with the seed of Buddha nature itching to manifest itself. You can become a Buddha, with right effort.


I think you're getting what you want out of my words.

I am metaphoring that there is no higher plane of reality in the life of an 'I' than that which 'you' see unfolding: therefore, the use of meditation and psychedelics can only yield an enhanced, joyous experience of the unfoldment of one's own subjective experience - which may or may not include the compassionate enhancement of the subjective experience of those with whom one comes into contact with. Therefore they should not be seen as means of liberation, but as means of actualization: they should be used to en-Joy your multiplanar interactions with reality (including your instinctual pleasure-seeking interactions), with the knowledge that when 'you' die 'you' will cease to experience.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisiblebadreligion2good
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6504583 - 01/28/07 12:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I think you over thinking and over complicating things. You're getting caught up in your thoughts.

I don't know for certain that you are just repeating Ram Daas's words, but I have a feeling that a lot of what you are saying is from Ram Daas's mind and not your own.

Your post does not come across as a metaphor, you state many things very matter of factly. Like you said that I must accept that I'm a robot. Your subjective experience of reality doesn't hold true for all of us. You say we're all robots, but that is YOUR EXPERIENCE, not mine.

I don't see how I am "getting what I want out of your words." You said very clearly that your Karma isn't your own, that meditation is not a path to liberation. That wasn't inferred, but stated. You're stuck in conceptualizing, pondering, this will get you nowhere. It will go around in circles.

Oh, yeah. And the purpose of meditation is to be here now. To bring us into the present moment, now. In order to truly BE HERE NOW, we must practice meditation. Especially if we are robots. Meditation is how we "BE HERE NOW"

I'm done with this thread. If your desire is to get caught up in abstract thoughts rather than experiencing reality as it truly is through meditation, then so be it.


--------------------
All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


Edited by badreligion2good (01/28/07 01:02 PM)


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: badreligion2good]
    #6504723 - 01/28/07 02:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badreligion2good said:Your post does not come across as a metaphor, you state many things very matter of factly. Like you said that I must accept that I'm a robot. Your subjective experience of reality doesn't hold true for all of us. You say we're all robots, but that is YOUR EXPERIENCE, not mine.


I am saying you are a robot only in that you are the result of input. This seems pretty straight forward. What else would 'you' be if you were not the product of input?

Quote:

Oh, yeah. And the purpose of meditation is to be here now. To bring us into the present moment, now. In order to truly BE HERE NOW, we must practice meditation. Especially if we are robots. Meditation is how we "BE HERE NOW"


Are you meditating right now? If so, how?

Quote:

I'm done with this thread. If your desire is to get caught up in abstract thoughts rather than experiencing reality as it truly is through meditation, then so be it.


All thoughts are abstractions. This is the essence of what I'm saying: by having this conversation over the Internet we are not arguing, we are metaphoring our subjective experiences to one another. That my metaphor has no validity to you does not make it invalid - it means you do not understand my metaphor. Which isn't a bad thing! If we all understood each other's metaphors, there would be no reason to language.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisiblebadreligion2good
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6504766 - 01/28/07 02:31 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I may have been practicing sitting meditation when you wrote that post, but I am not practicing sitting meditation now as I write this post. But I am meditating in a way. Since I just finished a sitting meditation I am much more focused on the present moment and what I am typing right now, so perhaps I am meditating.

It is possible to take the meditative practice with you on your day to day life. You can be in a meditative state when doing anything by simply being mindful and not letting the mind wander into the past or future. By using whatever activity it is your performing as an anchor to keep you in the present moment. You can be meditative when doing anything, its not simply a sitting exercise.


--------------------
All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: badreligion2good]
    #6504935 - 01/28/07 03:23 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badreligion2good said:
I may have been practicing sitting meditation when you wrote that post, but I am not practicing sitting meditation now as I write this post. But I am meditating in a way. Since I just finished a sitting meditation I am much more focused on the present moment and what I am typing right now, so perhaps I am meditating.

It is possible to take the meditative practice with you on your day to day life. You can be in a meditative state when doing anything by simply being mindful and not letting the mind wander into the past or future. By using whatever activity it is your performing as an anchor to keep you in the present moment. You can be meditative when doing anything, its not simply a sitting exercise.


I absolutely agree about being mindful at all times.  By posting here on the Shroomery I am practicing a form of meditation where the object is the interaction of my writing with the writing of others.

Letting the mind wander into the past and the future is impossible.  Your mind is always in the present, it is your words which are running around screaming about things that don't exist. :wink:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisiblebadreligion2good
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6504947 - 01/28/07 03:26 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

No, your mind isn't always in the present. When you are thinking about what you're going to do later, your mind isn't existing in the present but imagining the future. When you are dwelling on happy or sad memories, your mind isn't in the present, but in the past. Just a couple of examples.


--------------------
All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: badreligion2good]
    #6505010 - 01/28/07 03:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badreligion2good said:
No, your mind isn't always in the present. When you are thinking about what you're going to do later, your mind isn't existing in the present but imagining the future. When you are dwelling on happy or sad memories, your mind isn't in the present, but in the past. Just a couple of examples.


Those are words and emotions you're referring to, not mind. Words and emotions are subjective and abstract, ergo can dwell on the 'past' and 'future' - mind is objective.

Unfortunately I don't think words can transfer experience of the objective mind to you, but as luck would have it you have your own metaphors to work with in discovering it, and you may well be further along the path than I.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisiblebadreligion2good
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6505074 - 01/28/07 04:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

As long as your mind wanders, you are not always living in the present moment. Thinking about the past or future is the mind wandering. I'm sure you have many idle thoughts that just appear seemingly out of nowhere, as all untrained minds do. When these idle thoughts occur and you get caught up in them you are no longer living in the present. Again, you are over complicating things.

Whether you like it or not, your mind does not exist always exist in the present, though your physical mind-body does, if you are mindful you'll see this. Try meditating for an hour or more, just counting the breaths, watch how your mind throws a bunch of random thoughts out, you'll notice how chaotic the untrained mind is. You won't be able to do it without your mind throwing out some random stuff. Watch your mind wander, then you'll see how far from living in the present you usually are. In fact, I bet you'll find you are unable to sit for an hour straight doing nothing but counting your breaths, because you will get entangled in a thought and allow it to distract you completely from the counting of the breath. Notice how when you're doing things which are natural, habitual, how your mind wanders from the task which your body is performing. The purpose of meditation is to stop the distracted mind and to get it to exist in the present.

It seems to me you simply do not want to practice sitting meditation, because it hurts your back and it takes decades to sit full lotus. The benefits greatly outweigh the perceived costs though. Sitting meditation is how we cultivate mindfulness.

You just don't get it though, I'm really done now.


--------------------
All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


Edited by badreligion2good (01/28/07 04:03 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6505113 - 01/28/07 04:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I was just reading over this whole thread, and i would like to make just a little footnote about Buddhism in general.

Buddhism is not against pleasurable experiences. The principle attitude toward pleasure in Buddhism, is that one can enjoy pleasurable experiences, no problem. But we must know that getting totally distracted, caught up and chasing after the fleeting and impermanent pleasurable experiences, can and will only lead to suffering as its result, time and time again.

Instead of relaxing, enjoying and being aware of the impermanent nature of all life's experiences, like a moth to the flame, we chase endlessly after the objects of our passions. This is the storm of reactivity we need to gently calm so we can understand more clearly, the minds true nature.


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Invisiblebadreligion2good
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Sinbad]
    #6505137 - 01/28/07 04:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I never said Buddhism was against pleasurable experiences, deep meditation is a very pleasurable experience! So is happiness, love, compassion, and peace. I have sex, I eat tasty foods, I enjoy pleasure.

I think the thing that really got me going was that he likened meditation to rubbing one out. How ignorant is that?

"Psychedelics and meditation can help you awaken to what you already have, so they are good tools, but they will not help you attain Formlessness/En-Light-enment any more than rubbing one out or riding a bicycle blinfolded into oncoming traffic."

Again, just because you have the potential to discover your Buddha nature doesn't mean you will. Meditation is how you cultivate your Buddha nature. Just because we all have it doesn't mean we all realize it, or more importantly, experience it. How did the enlightened one achieve enlightenment, what was he doing? He wasn't mindlessly rubbing one out. He was meditating all night, through the morning.

Meditation is how countless people have awakened. No one has awakened simply by thinking and telling people that they are robots.


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All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


Edited by badreligion2good (01/28/07 04:23 PM)


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