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OfflineLion
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I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin
    #6501917 - 01/27/07 12:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

You are a robot. This is the first thing you must accept on the road to liberation. Whether or not you are a tabula rasa, a blank slate, when you are born, or there is some spark of uniqueness which allows your mind to react differently to the world than someone else would in your exact situation, the undeniable fact remains: you are a robot.

You are biologically programmed through the act of human reproduction, you are emotionally and linguistically programmed by your parents and all those with whom you interact, and you are programmed to live within certain systems (rational, calendric, numeric, religious, scholastic, etc.) by your parent-culture.

So, you're a freakin' robot. Get over yourself already. The way you act and react is pre-determined by the reality you are born into.

Yet, you seek. What are most of us here on The Shroomery seeking? We are seeking to alter the chemical base on which our consciousness rests in order to understand our consciousness in and of itself. When you reach a certain point in this chemical experimentation, you discover that you, like everyone else, is a robot absorbing a billion inputs and outputting signals based on the sum of your programming: we are all connected in that we receive signals, synthesize them, and produce new signals. The 9/11 hijackers received paranoid/hateful signals, and produced them, causing their own demise and the demise of thousands of others: they were paranoid robots.

What you have to do to break the chain of paranoia is WAKE UP. By waking up, I mean you have to realize that you are the product of the fears and hopes of others: once you begin to see clearly what those fears and hopes are, you are able to alter your reality in order to wake the other robots up, and in doing so you realize that being Enlightened means giving and receiving compassionate signals with your fellow robots and learning how to rid yourself of paranois signals.

So, a human is someone who feels compassion and paranoia but is not awake enough to understand his own intent as part of a larger whole - he thus acts according to the ratio of compassionate to paranoid inputs which he has received in his life: obviously this varies in every single individual.

A robot is a thing which cannot compute compassion or paranoia, but which has an unbending computational (input-synthesis-output) intent with regards to its reality.

What is a holy [wo]man, then? A holy man, a realized being, is someone who is able to compute levels of compassion and paranoia in his fellow hum-bots, and act with unbending intent to tip their scales towards compassion.

You can't run away. Your karma is not your own, it is the karma of your family, your peers, the old woman serving you your hotdog at the ballpark - and as you gain a larger perspective, your karma is the karma of the World: you cannot transcend this earthly plane through meditation or psychedelics: you can either Be Here Now, acting on compassionate impulse, or you can be an input-output drone and wander around confused and frustrated (and, of course, occassionally compassionate) until you die and cease to exist.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


Edited by Lion (01/27/07 12:40 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6501972 - 01/27/07 12:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

from the yin and yang of seeing and doing
a base robotron response ignores the meta seeing and doing
& a
buddha robotron response attends opportunity to make things better,
sees through the base robo-nature & hooks up with what is happenning.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6501973 - 01/27/07 12:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Must?


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Gomp]
    #6502048 - 01/27/07 01:24 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Must?


There is no such thing as must. I said 'what you have to do' - that means you Have It to Do if You choose To! I make the presumption that your inner Buddha-tron Model 07.1 would prefer to wake up from its slumber, but hey, I don't know you, and also, what the hell is preference in a [W]Hol[l]y Computer?!


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502059 - 01/27/07 01:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

in a dream last night I was talking with my wife, and I really knew it was a dream but I did not want to disabuse her of the fact while we were both enjoying it so much but I did eventually share and she already knew!


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502063 - 01/27/07 01:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

believing oneself to be a robot, one becomes a robot.
believing oneself to be the divine source of all, one sees they always have been the divine source of all.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: thatiAM]
    #6502112 - 01/27/07 01:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

"you cannot transcend this earthly plane through meditation or psychedelics:"

what makes you so sure? these are tools of awakening yes?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: thatiAM]
    #6502119 - 01/27/07 01:51 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

thatiAM said:
believing oneself to be a robot, one becomes a robot.
believing oneself to be the divine source of all, one sees they always have been the divine source of all.


So are you under the impression that you are the divine source of all? If you are indeed the divine source of all, I've got a bone or two to pick with you, though if you teach me how to surf Bansai Pipeline I'll call it even all the way.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: leery11]
    #6502140 - 01/27/07 02:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
"you cannot transcend this earthly plane through meditation or psychedelics:"

what makes you so sure? these are tools of awakening yes?


They are tools of awakening, but awakening to what? How many people do you know who have meditated their way or psychedelicked their way to Formlessness? Unless you know someone who has suffocated himself doing advanced breathing exercises or overdosing on ketamine, I am guessing the likely answer is NONE.

The only thing to awaken to is the finite nature of your body and mind and the ability of the human mind to be simultaneously compassionate and self-serving. Psychedelics and meditation can help you awaken to what you already have, so they are good tools, but they will not help you attain Formlessness/En-Light-enment any more than rubbing one out or riding a bicycle blinfolded into oncoming traffic.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502207 - 01/27/07 02:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The only thing to awaken to is the finite nature of your body and mind and the ability of the human mind to be simultaneously compassionate and self-serving. Psychedelics and meditation can help you awaken to what you already have, so they are good tools, but they will not help you attain Formlessness/En-Light-enment any more than rubbing one out or riding a bicycle blinfolded into oncoming traffic.




There is no bodhi tree,
Nor stand of a mirror bright.
Since all is void,
Where can the dust alight?


Between compassion and selfishness, compassion seems to be the best and most appropriate/natural way of expressing the mind. However, as Hui-Neng so eloquently phrases it above, there is no mind. As far as awakening to what you already have...what's there to have and who's there to have it?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6502222 - 01/27/07 02:56 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
from the yin and yang of seeing and doing
a base robotron response ignores the meta seeing and doing
& a
buddha robotron response attends opportunity to make things better,
sees through the base robo-nature & hooks up with what is happenning.





Nice!:)


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: dblaney]
    #6502275 - 01/27/07 03:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
There is no bodhi tree,
Nor stand of a mirror bright.
Since all is void,
Where can the dust alight?


Between compassion and selfishness, compassion seems to be the best and most appropriate/natural way of expressing the mind. However, as Hui-Neng so eloquently phrases it above, there is no mind. As far as awakening to what you already have...what's there to have and who's there to have it?


I just do not understand this perspective. I have never seen anything as Void. I am fully aware that I am not 'unique' in the sense that I was not born into this world with a spark which allows me to see differently - yet I see the world uniquely because the subjective reality I was born into was unique, and thus my desires are unique.

Knowing as I do that at some point I will cease to exist, why should I not seek pleasure? At worst I will not obtain sensual and emotional pleasure. At best I will. Either way I will die, and I have no conceptual idea of what it means to be dead. Nor do I have a conceptual idea of what it means to be liberated. I only know that it feels good to have sex, to surf, to play basketball, to eat a delicious meal, to have a conversation with an individual who sees the unfoldment of objective reality from a different subjective vantage point than me, to laugh, to make people smile, et cetera. That these are fleeting, that they stem from an unknowable initial input, is beside the point; they still give me pleasure so long as I seek to do these things with no expectation of a particular outcome.

The idea of liberation from the birth-death cycle is an illusion: as long as there is birth and death there will be the experience of pain, suffering, and all the other bad shit in this world - since I have no experiential basis for understanding the concept of 'liberation', while I have a very firm understanding of the term 'pleasure', why should I give up my desire for the latter? As long as I have no expectations about the outcome (and expectations are a very silly thing to have) I don't see why I shouldn't seek sensual and emotional pleasure.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


Edited by Lion (01/27/07 03:34 PM)


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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502415 - 01/27/07 04:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I've had a shroom experience that felt like I was a robot.

Everything was meaningless as a robot would see it as matter of function only.

The feeling that made me feel robotic, was seeing the world in pure logic form. Its construct seemed so insignificant.

I responded to this insignificance as an insignificant being, droned to do what I was told, but it was cold despairing fact due to lack of stimuli.

I think eventually machines will want to live.


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: capliberty]
    #6502453 - 01/27/07 04:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
I've had a shroom experience that felt like I was a robot.

Everything was meaningless as a robot would see it as matter of function only.

The feeling that made me feel robotic, was seeing the world in pure logic form. Its construct seemed so insignificant.

I responded to this insignificance as an insignificant being, droned to do what I was told, but it was cold despairing fact due to lack of stimuli.

I think eventually machines will want to live.


'you' are a machine, and 'You' want to live.

I think eventually YOU will exist joyously at the center of this paradox.

But I could just be seeing in 'you' what I see in 'me', and what I want to see in 'Me'.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502524 - 01/27/07 05:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

As long as I have no expectations about the outcome (and expectations are a very silly thing to have) I don't see why I shouldn't seek sensual and emotional pleasure.




Well herein is the problem. If you do ANYTHING with the hope of pleasure, with the idea of pleasure, seeking for pleasure, then you are expecting that whatever it may be that you do will yield you pleasure.

Why do you have sex? Because you expect it will yield pleasure. Why do you surf and play basketball? Because you expect they will or may potentially give you pleasure.

So I see your statement as betraying a sort of dissonance: on the one hand you think you shouldn't expect pleasure in anything. You shouldn't do anything with any expectation for the outcome. Yet from your description, all the things that you do are done because you seek a certain outcome. You seek pleasure.

Quote:

Knowing as I do that at some point I will cease to exist, why should I not seek pleasure?




Dig deeper my friend. Who is this "I" that was created? Where did it come from? Who is it that will cease to exist? Who is this "I" who wants to seek pleasure?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineLion
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: dblaney]
    #6502548 - 01/27/07 05:35 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Quote:

As long as I have no expectations about the outcome (and expectations are a very silly thing to have) I don't see why I shouldn't seek sensual and emotional pleasure.




Well herein is the problem. If you do ANYTHING with the hope of pleasure, with the idea of pleasure, seeking for pleasure, then you are expecting that whatever it may be that you do will yield you pleasure.

Why do you have sex? Because you expect it will yield pleasure. Why do you surf and play basketball? Because you expect they will or may potentially give you pleasure.

So I see your statement as betraying a sort of dissonance: on the one hand you think you shouldn't expect pleasure in anything. You shouldn't do anything with any expectation for the outcome. Yet from your description, all the things that you do are done because you seek a certain outcome. You seek pleasure.

Quote:

Knowing as I do that at some point I will cease to exist, why should I not seek pleasure?




Dig deeper my friend. Who is this "I" that was created? Where did it come from? Who is it that will cease to exist? Who is this "I" who wants to seek pleasure?


I want to understand what liberation means to you. You have come to the conclusion that you don't exist, that there can be no cause and no effect, and no third option, ergo we must be void.

What, then, will happen if I decide to blow up a building full of little children?

But I'm not nothing, and I don't want to do that! The fact that I have no uniqueness other than my subjective experience does not mean that I'm literally nothing! So what should I do???? To what end do "I" cultivate compassion and awareness if I do not exist, if there is no coming or going? It seems to me that if "I" am void yet "I" am experiencing myself, then cultivating anything is self-serving. If that is the case, then why not serve myself a bowl of chocolate ice-cream and a plane ticket to the Caribbean?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502630 - 01/27/07 06:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I want to understand what liberation means to you.




To me, liberation is what we are. Fundamentally, everything is liberated/awakened/enlightened. However, because of my confusion, delusion, and misunderstandings, I don't realize this. I 'understand' this to be so on a superficial level, but not down to my bones. It's like the difference between stating the name of food, and actually eating, processing, and assimilating the food.

Quote:

What, then, will happen if I decide to blow up a building full of little children?




Then the building will be destroyed, little children will be dead, and many people will be very upset.

Quote:

The fact that I have no uniqueness other than my subjective experience does not mean that I'm literally nothing! So what should I do???? To what end do "I" cultivate compassion and awareness if I do not exist, if there is no coming or going?




Perspective is key here. From the perspective of Absolute Truth (which is not other than relative or conventional truth), there is no you, no me, no chocolate ice cream, no coming, no going, no compassion, no awareness, no something, and no nothing. From the perspective of relative or conventional, everyday truth (which is not other than Absolute Truth), there is you, there is me, there is chocolate ice cream, there is coming there is going, there is joy, and there is pain.

Absolute Truth and relative truth are not different. A wonderful analogy is with the ocean. The water, in this case, is Absolute Truth, and the waves are the relative truth. Outside of the water, there can be no waves, and outside of the waves, there is no water. Waves are simply the function of the water.

HOWEVER, when waves do not realize that they are in fact part of one body of water, then there is an infinite schism between that wave and every other wave on the ocean.

While really there is nothing separating the wave from the water, the idea that the wave is separate in some way IS what is separating the wave from experiencing its oneness with the water.

Yet so long as the wave maintains its notion of being separate from the water, it strives to do anything and everything to maintain and serve this idea of a 'self', of a 'separated individuality'. It seeks after pleasure and avoids pain.

Yet when it realizes its oneness, there is no more pain and no more pleasure, as such, because pleasure and pain are relative. Something is only painful in relation to something that is not. Something is only pleasant in relation to something that is not. When the wave realizes its intrinsic oneness with the water, that it has always been the water, and that there is nothing outside of the water, then liberation is realized. And with it, true joy that is not dependent on the conditions of the ever changing sea.

Quote:

It seems to me that if "I" am void yet "I" am experiencing myself, then cultivating anything is self-serving.




I'm not sure what you mean by "'I' am experiencing myself". In fact, this is another form of separation: the view that there is an experiencer that is separate from the object of experience. Subject and object are just notions imposed on experience. Same with the notions of a subjective and objective world. Perhaps you could say that we ARE the objective world, experiencing ourselves.

Cultivation is not, IMO, what one should strive to do. Cultivating compassion and awareness is like trying to make paint white paint on a wall that is already white. When a wave understands that it is not separate from the ocean, yet observes that so many of the other waves on the ocean still think they are separate, compassion seems to arise naturally, of itself, without any effort on the part of the wave. Likewise, awareness is already here. There is no need to cultivate it. But it is helpful to train it to function properly, so that it doesn't chase after ideas and sensations. Letting it run all over the place has never proved to be conducive to realizing that we are the ocean.

Quote:

why not serve myself a bowl of chocolate ice-cream and a plane ticket to the Caribbean?




So long as it is the ocean that eats the ice cream and goes to the Caribbean, it is alright. But if it is the wave that eats the ice cream and goes to the Caribbean, then there is confusion. The wave still thinks of itself as separate.

Since the ocean does not harbor such ideas as 'self' and 'other', there would be no reason for it to seek pleasure in the form of ice cream or tropical vacations. However, if the circumstances were such that doing either of those would be compassionate and beneficial, then I'm sure the ocean would do either of those in a flash.

It's tricky though, because so long as you think that you're acting selflessly, you are in fact acting selfishly. Only when you don't act at all is there true selfless, compassionate action. That's why the sutras say that sages act without acting and speak without speaking.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisiblethatiAM
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502637 - 01/27/07 06:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Quote:

thatiAM said:
believing oneself to be a robot, one becomes a robot.
believing oneself to be the divine source of all, one sees they always have been the divine source of all.


So are you under the impression that you are the divine source of all?  If you are indeed the divine source of all, I've got a bone or two to pick with you, though if you teach me how to surf Bansai Pipeline I'll call it even all the way.




Yes, just like you.  Pick your bones then :smile:


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: Lion]
    #6502650 - 01/27/07 06:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Liberation is not Nilhism(denial of relative truth, karma, etc). The question is not whether you exist or not, the question is how is your existence. Is it an independent, individual existence? Or is it dependent upon causes and conditions, i.e empty of inherent self-existence? If you investigate well, you can see that the ego-grasping mind is in fact the cause of all our anxiety and agitation. Only in knowing how things really are can free us from the chains of ignorance. (see cave of allegory)

Liberation means that you have full deep knowledge and understanding of the nature of existence of body speech and mind. Fully understanding the nature of mind, being in that direct understanding, means that you are liberated from ignorance, and no longer have to suffer the darkness of unknowing.


--------------------


Edited by Sinbad (01/27/07 06:47 PM)


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Invisiblebadreligion2good
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Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 887
Re: I, Robot, am the Buddha in a teenager's skin [Re: thatiAM]
    #6502656 - 01/27/07 06:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Very strange, as I typed my original post a completely different post came up and erased EVERYTHING I TYPED!

Here are your greatest faults though:

You think you are a Buddha, but thinking is different from KNOWING AND EXPERIENCING. You won't experience your Buddha nature till you practice meditation, through meditation you will come experience the truth behind the process of birth, life, death, and rebirth as well.

You think your Karma isn't your own, but it is. Denying that is denying responsibility for all your actions. You are responsible for what you do, and there will be outcomes, its all too easy to blame things on others.

Indulging in sensual pleasures will bring you suffering. If you are mindful, you will realize this. How do you become mindful? By meditating.

These are just a few points I want to make, there are more to be made, but I don't have the desire to explain them.

I think its funny that you post on this message board proclaiming you are a Buddha, yet disagreeing with many of the Buddha's core teachings! Its outrageous. And, on top of that, you think you are right! You think that there is correct and incorrect. Thats a delusion! You think you are correct, and the Buddha is incorrect, but neither of you are, because thats just a thought.

You want to be a Buddha, meditate, till then, your Buddha nature is but a seed that will never grow, because it is not in the proper conditions. The proper conditions are described in the noble 8-fold path. There are the instructions to germinate the seed of Buddha nature.

You are not a Buddha till you experience it. You are simply thinking you are.


--------------------
All I know is that I dont know.

Row, row, row, you boat, gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream.


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