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OfflineKickleM
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My Girlfriend...
    #6481585 - 01/21/07 03:55 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

So my girlfriend is having a very hard time with depression and anxiety.

Now, background: I am a clinical psych major, and deal with this sort of thing on a regular basis. I am extremely worn out by the time I get home, and then I get to do with giving my girlfriend psychotherapy late into the night. I think this is why patient/therapist relationships are not a good idea...

Anyways, as a result, I was looking to speed things up a bit. Throughout the years I've researched a bit into LSD assisted psychotherapy and the likes.

Now, I know that mushrooms aren't for everyone, but I since I have plenty of mushrooms at my disposal, it might be a god idea to test this out. I have plenty of experience with mushrooms myself, and am very confident with my ability as a therapist.

My girlfriend is ready to try some herself, and I figured I would start out with a low dose; ~1.75 grams or so.

I guess I'm just looking for comments on what people think of this plan. Good, bad, or somewhere in between.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinenycomyco
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Kickle]
    #6481605 - 01/21/07 04:12 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry to hear about your girlfriend's trouble.
I'm not sure it's such a great idea to play the role of psychedelic psychotherapist with your girlfriend. As you know, the patient therapist relationship can get extremely tricky at times, and from what I've read, some of the same issues that come up in regular psychotherapy, like transference (??) can also come up, and they may not necessarily be solved by trip's end. A boyfriend can make a fine psychedelic guide, but not necessarily the most appropriate psychedelic psychotherapist, no matter how much you want to help this person whom you love.
On the other hand, maybe a good trip could help her, and you could help her by being a sounding board and helping her feel secure, without playing a central role.
Good luck to both of you.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: nycomyco]
    #6481612 - 01/21/07 04:20 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you for the input. I also have considered just letting her trips run their course, and just being her sitter.

My fear however is that she will get scared by what she finds, and try to fight it. Before she met me, she had held all of her current issues inside since middle school. She said she was too embarassed to talk to her parents, or any of her close friends.

I am the only person in the world she has confided in.

So perhaps as you said, being a guide of sorts would be helpful, but not forcing myself into a specific role.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinelearysprotoge
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Kickle]
    #6481632 - 01/21/07 04:49 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

If she was sexually assaulted and has been repressing this event(S) then I wouldnt recomend such a low dose.
This is tricky, I wouldnt really even recomend psychedelics for a case like this.
I would only try it at a higher dosage maybe 2.5-3 grams, but the thing is is from what ig et she seems to be the type of person to not want to relive this experiene.
Shes going to fight it and this will only make it worse.
Have a talk with her about sharing what she will experience with you.
Only proceed if you feel 100% that she trusts you.
I mean this girl has to love you in order for this to work, or else she may become emberrassed n then have a bad trip.
Im comin up on some mescaline so im havin trouble gettin the point out.
I think i can get it though.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6481648 - 01/21/07 05:06 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

No sexual abuse.

She was adopted from Korea (now in the US), and has said more than once to me that "being with people who look like you is... comforting."

She has not talked to her parents, or friends about this. Nor has she talked to anyone about her depression/anxiety.

I was planning the small dose to get her feet wet. She has all those fears that society engrains within us from an early age. It has been a long process to get her to try and open up to other possibilities. I let her watch me do mushrooms on several occasions, and I've let her read up when I can.

I am of course against forcing or letting the person feel pressured. So her recent change to try something new is her idea. It's either that, or she's turning to anti-depressents.

She feels bad for putting such burden on me, and desires a quick fix more than even myself. I really don't want her on anti-depressents. Especially not after she's finally confronting what she's held in for soooo long.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinelearysprotoge
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Kickle]
    #6481656 - 01/21/07 05:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Dude you ever thought about a vacation?
Try that I really dont like meds.
Go on a fun vacation, just have as much fun as u can.
Maybe if shes havin a real goot ime the shrooms would be less likely to trip her out n a bad way.
You made it seem like she was abused earlier in life.
Does she have a job or just stay home all day?
What about friends?


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Offlinelearysprotoge
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6481657 - 01/21/07 05:16 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Depression imo is simply the result of life not bein what u expected.
Ask her what she would like to see different.
Ask her indireclty (out of a therapy session) out of the blue what her ideal life would be..Go form ther


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6481667 - 01/21/07 05:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

My personal views of depression after having my own dose of it earlier in life is that it is just a perspective. But the way things are going these days, everyone is convinced that there is some sort of chemical imbalance that is impossible to fix without meds.

Vacation would be lovely, but she's attending college. She worked until recently, when she quit her job. She has been hunting ever since, which is good, but until then I am the financial support, making it even more impossible to get away.

I try to incorporate fun activities as much for myself as for her. Life is stressful for me, and I'm sure that doesn't help her any, because it rubs off at times. But we get out and go snowmobiling, or camping, hiking, etc. on the weekends.

She has a limited circle of friends that she is afraid to move outside of. I try to give her options for expanding it without putting too much strain on her, but it's very difficult. You can't do things for people, you know? You can only set the opportunities in front of them.

Regardless, I always try to innovate and use new techniques, especially with those close to me. You can't treat them as a patient, it just doesn't work that way. Unfortunately I have to pick and choose what to use, being just a supportive boyfriend, being a therapist, being a parent, and what have you.

I'm just at my ropes end for this entire situation, and it seems a glimmer of hope that she would give psychedelics a chance. I can imagine it doing her a lot of good.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinelearysprotoge
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Kickle]
    #6481691 - 01/21/07 06:01 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Perspective..
Life is life, if you percieve it as a life without the tthe shit u want then ur gonna be depressed.
I dk about the chemical imbalane
I think it is a factor in chronis depression.
But I think the depression comes first, and if it last long enough throws the brain outta wack causin the chmial imbalnce


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Offlinezootroid
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6481916 - 01/21/07 11:05 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm going to agree with everyone that has said it's a perspective. I was depressed for a very long time. I had no idea why, but it all when a way when I started to eat and workout. After gaining some weight and some muscle I felt great about myself. That's the same time my depression went away. Been gone ever since.


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OfflineNeuroticTrip
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Kickle]
    #6481973 - 01/21/07 11:41 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I don't see what the big deal is. He has experience with psychotherapy AND shrooms. Ohhhh I guess it'd be better if you were a complete stranger talking to her about her problems, instead of someone that actually has care and concern for her... </sarcasm> Just don't give her too much. If anything else, you can give her some.... have fun with her, and just let her explore anything she brings up. Chances are she'll analyze some profound things on her own.


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OfflineNeuroticTrip
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Kickle]
    #6481980 - 01/21/07 11:43 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
But the way things are going these days, everyone is convinced that there is some sort of chemical imbalance that is impossible to fix without meds.



It's been proven that using methods like cognitive behavioral therapy, a person's brain chemistry can be literally changed. It can just take many years.


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Offlinelearysprotoge
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: NeuroticTrip]
    #6481992 - 01/21/07 11:50 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PFC said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
But the way things are going these days, everyone is convinced that there is some sort of chemical imbalance that is impossible to fix without meds.



It's been proven that using methods like cognitive behavioral therapy, a person's brain chemistry can be literally changed. It can just take many years.




So then the opposite must be true too.
Meaning the depression comes first, and if it remains for a prolonged period of time, the chemical imbalance follows.


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6482673 - 01/21/07 04:22 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

If you decide to do shrooms with your girlfriend... I suggest making it about the positive experience of shrooms, and using it to grow... rather than trying to bring focus on negative issues you want to resolve.

If there is a particular problem your girlfriend is having trouble exploring psychologically, I would recommend MDMA above shrooms. Shrooms are better for improving your balance than correcting your imbalances, IMO. Preventative medicine.


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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Offlinelearysprotoge
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: ExplosiveMango]
    #6482718 - 01/21/07 04:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
If you decide to do shrooms with your girlfriend... I suggest making it about the positive experience of shrooms, and using it to grow... rather than trying to bring focus on negative issues you want to resolve.

If there is a particular problem your girlfriend is having trouble exploring psychologically, I would recommend MDMA above shrooms. Shrooms are better for improving your balance than correcting your imbalances, IMO. Preventative medicine.




MDMA can be really good for a problem like this.
The problem alot of times can be that the pillds are not MDMA or MDA, but meth.
I've done alot of research on the healing capabilities or psychedelaics.
IMO its a great tool, if ueed in the right cicumstances.
I undestand how some would say that letting her just trip recrrationaly may be best.
But I feel that if you know what your doing (wich im not sayin I do)
Then you can help guide it in a right direction..
Ive seen this done by some old hippies that would helo each other out in bad trips.
If something negatinve came up they'd talk in a way that would point the guy in the right direction.
After the did this he seemed really happy to have this new way of looking at it.
However I dont know if this psychedelic resolution lasted after the trip.
I do feel that a trained psychotherapist or something simialar would best the hippys though:)..


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6483664 - 01/21/07 08:34 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I've done therapy on my friends when we'd trip before. You simply can't avoid it.

One friend after a session said this "you did in 6 hours what my parents, who spent thousands of dollars to therapists couldn't."

He was slipping down a slope, had been for a while. Heroin, meth, etc. After that night he didn't touch the stuff ever again. Not usually what I work with, but I'm happy it worked out for him.

But yes, sometimes the words you say have an amazing impact. As a psychologist it is frightening at times to watch the impact of words.


--------------------
Being unable to make what is just strong,
we have made what is strong just. -- Pascal

Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinelearysprotoge
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Kickle]
    #6483748 - 01/21/07 08:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Are you still in school?
I start my psychology clases in a few days.
Im takin abnormal psychology, pharmacology of abused substances n political philosophy.


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OfflineFeanor
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6483863 - 01/21/07 09:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I think it is a good idea and would love to hear how it goes. However, I think that you should lower the dosage a bit if you are intending the trip to be of psychotherapeutic value.


--------------------

May Terence McKenna Live Long

The DMT Chronicles


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InvisibleFety
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Feanor]
    #6488688 - 01/23/07 07:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

It is important when having a good trip for the first time to have the right setting. It HAS to be positive and comfortable. Especially with hormone filled emo-bag women.

Sometimes it's not a good idea to be in your home when it's a mess or there's shit around that house that you have to take care of. It will piss you off and make things shitty. I am a pretty care free guy and so far have never had a bad trip. I don't let shit get to me. My first LSD experience was a mind fuck, but it wasn't bad.

Anyway, of the last few times I've done shrooms I have to adjust my surroundings beforehand. I think one of the most important things you must have on hand to keep a trip from going bad is comforting music, such as New Age. No, not Enya. Something ambient, flowing chords, meditation music. It totally moves my mind in the right direction and can rescue just about anyone from a bad trip.

It wouldn't be wise for a first timer to explore their mind right off. You must stimulate their senses with things that make them feel good or they would enjoy.

Soothing MUSIC is it!

-if anyone wants some recommendations, PM me.


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Offlinelearysprotoge
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Fety]
    #6494224 - 01/24/07 11:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Oh you mean like "Machine gun" (fillmore) by Jimi Hendrix blastin at 2 am? with black lights n a big ass purple lit gold fish tank..
Lol thats what I like, but im kinda crazy..


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OfflineExplosiveMango
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6494361 - 01/25/07 12:23 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

learysprotoge said:
Quote:

ExplosiveMango said:
If you decide to do shrooms with your girlfriend... I suggest making it about the positive experience of shrooms, and using it to grow... rather than trying to bring focus on negative issues you want to resolve.

If there is a particular problem your girlfriend is having trouble exploring psychologically, I would recommend MDMA above shrooms. Shrooms are better for improving your balance than correcting your imbalances, IMO. Preventative medicine.




MDMA can be really good for a problem like this.
The problem alot of times can be that the pillds are not MDMA or MDA, but meth.
I've done alot of research on the healing capabilities or psychedelaics.





Agreed. Absolutely get a test kit, and make sure you have pure MDMA.

Quote:


IMO its a great tool, if ueed in the right cicumstances.
I undestand how some would say that letting her just trip recrrationaly may be best.
But I feel that if you know what your doing (wich im not sayin I do)
Then you can help guide it in a right direction..
Ive seen this done by some old hippies that would helo each other out in bad trips.
If something negatinve came up they'd talk in a way that would point the guy in the right direction.
After the did this he seemed really happy to have this new way of looking at it.
However I dont know if this psychedelic resolution lasted after the trip.
I do feel that a trained psychotherapist or something simialar would best the hippys though:)..





I think MDMA is a good drug to use because it makes the using individual feel additionally spontaneous. An individual has the confidence while on MDMA to confront difficult issues very easily. It is very easy to be comfortable with your own mind on MDMA.


One important thing with MDMA is to have a very comfortable emotional space to use the drug, as to avoid much emotional retraction (post-use regret can easily become very severe if the trip had dis-favorable memories).

Emotional overextension inevitably can only be directly controlled by the user of the mind. This makes it easy to see why it can be a good thing to have a person there to communicate with them and pace them, preferably someone with knowledge in psychology. (either Traditional or Psychedelic, at this point in time each is equilikely to lack the necessary knowledge of the other)


--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.

The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.


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OfflineMindGorilla
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: learysprotoge]
    #6494363 - 01/25/07 12:24 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Setting is everything, you need something that would be cozy, I don't recommended sitting in a basement or small and confined.

As far as doing them with your girlfriend, you should not let her do them by herself. Maybe you should eat a small dose too, so you can really connect and get more of that "bonding" that you get when on shrooms.


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: MindGorilla]
    #6495428 - 01/25/07 12:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

hmm good point on the small dose for yourself.

but i agree with one of the posters who said you shouldnt act as psychedelic psychotherapist.

be the boyfriend who guides her through the journey and stays silent (maybe adding comforting words like go with the flow) to let her work out her issues.

give her a dose you think is suitable based on your experience.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: evolprim]
    #6495982 - 01/25/07 03:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Many of my thoughts on this have been expressed already: consider MDMA, take a low dose yourself, act more as a comforting presence than as a therapist.

I'd just like to add that dosage is also a variable. On a low dose (or on MDMA), I guess it would be okay to go through some issues with her if she wants to. If the first trip goes well, and she wishes to try it again, up the dose if she's comfortable with the idea. In that case, it's better to just let the trip happen (and still take a low dose yourself). Read this lovely account of a solo trip that unexpectedly solved a very long depression.

The best of luck to you, you seem like a very caring boyfriend. :heart:


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OfflineAldous
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Aldous]
    #6496006 - 01/25/07 03:57 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

And look at this post too...


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: My Girlfriend... [Re: Aldous]
    #6496130 - 01/25/07 04:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'd advise against practicing psychotherapy without a license.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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