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JonnyDeformed
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Re: Killing living creatures [Re: postanaldrip]
#6487998 - 01/22/07 11:26 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
postanaldrip said: I can think of alternatives to killing them. You might not like those options though.
I'm all ears... please tell.
-------------------- dubiousness Dubious compound it is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. A penalty for possession of a drug/plant should not be more damaging than the drug/plant itself.
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FrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist
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Re: Killing living creatures [Re: mr_kite]
#6488474 - 01/23/07 01:56 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Like all moral questions, this one is situational, and subjective. Sometimes, in order to satisfy your overall axiology you have to kill some animals--be they plants to eat or even household pests (in an ideal world all pain would be equal, but that unfortunately isn't how our brains work). Other times though, such killing is obviously disproportionate, and displays a lack of empathy or a malicious nature. For example if you go around throwing pregnant mice at the wall, I'm definately going to think you have sociopathic tendencies.
-------------------- "Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
Edited by FrenchSocialist (01/23/07 01:58 AM)
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Irdamage
Autobot
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Well to take a more philosophical stance then, human beings cannot survive without killing SOME kind of living thing. We literally need to consume them to survive, whether its harvesting a plant, or hunting a deer, or simply buying any kind of food product adds money to the industry of killing things for food. This is simply for survival.
However over the years weve also learned that certain pests such as mosquito's,Lice,Fleas,Ticks,and Flies. Can spread disease to people when they share the same living quarters and conditions with these creatures. Hence for the last few hundred years or so, weve been taught as a society the importance of basic higene and removal of pests that can be both an annoyance and a potential health hazard.(this being restricted to creatures which potentially danger us , and sadly in some cases it does cross boundaries into removing "pests" that are simply just annoyances, but thats the choice some people make.) However by removing some of these pests we can ensure some better health.
Im well aware that a few hundred years ago some english and french settlers (who Im quite sure Im in no way connected to) colonized the land I live on now and "took" it from the natives who lived here before them. (who by the way had no strong concepts of owner ship until someone else with a different lifestyle tried to move in). Its quite wrong and in terms of a philosophical sense, owning land and material goods means nothing, however in a much less idealisitc way, they do sadly mean something for a time being. In the grand scheme of things I own nothing and am but a speck going about my daily life, but in the plans for life in this time in this reality and in this civilization I at least have a house and a car :/
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Vulture
Pursuer ofWisdom
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Re: Killing living creatures [Re: leery11]
#6489214 - 01/23/07 11:34 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said: The idea that we may kill nature becuase it is an inconveniance is a suicidal idea that if held popular enough will eradicate mankind from the face of the Earth.
But really to ask yourself you just have to ponder. What does it mean to be an insect, and to live by an insects rules? Sit down and imagine it. Maybe you can use some psychedelics to think about it if you use them.
You are completely and totally conscious, you have very little freedom, and your entire life is based upon survival. There is nothing but dismal hope, and you honestly just want to chill out and let your programs run.
Then some guy steps on you because you are an incoveniance, pretty sucky.
Or what if you are a slaughterhouse animal? Then you have some higher cognitive faculties. You really truely know every moment of your meaninglessly cruel and horrendous life that SOMETHING IS WRONG and these human beings are stepping on you and beating you and torturing you. You are probably famined. You have no access to nature.
And there is no escape. You are going to live in a slaughterhouse until you die in one. You can't flit out of your body and say "I want to be a human being again!" you're fucked and not one single guy has an iota of compassion for your existence.
It's no wonder the native Americans treated their hunts with deep reverance, compassion, and sincerity. That they believed the animals sacrifice was sacred. The Native Americans had a portion of their brain called "common sense" that we attempted to wipe out of the collective mind when we started killing them.
So the question is this, do you remember being born? Do you know what death brings? You became a human which is a pretty neat thing, it's probably the best thing to be on this planet we have. So why treat other living organisms who experience consciousness and pain as anything less sacred than you just because the laws of the unvierse didn't treat them as well?
I personally believe karma influences the next life. I don't think many people are in any danger of becoming bugs, but it is painfully obvious that most American human beings primarily exhibit animal behaviors (especially the obese) moreso than higher-consciousness Christ like behaviors, or "alien" behaviors, or behaviors that have anything to do with anything higher than eating, being entertained, having sex, and getting trashed and stupid. These are things monkeys do just fine. And if a person dedicates his life to being a monkey, or a pig, or a dog (such as being very hostile and confrontational and sexually oriented).... well...
these are my views. We should live as the Native Americans did, treating everything as a sacred gift to us and not disrespecting any life. The need for killing sentient life is quite rare indeed.
The American mindset is one suicidal and disrespectful to humanity and all of planet Earth and do you really want to be on "their" side? The side that has memes that say "ohhhhh a spider KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT..... I DON'T WANT TO GO CAMPING I WANT TO BE IN A SHPPING MALL!!!!??"
those memes don't lead anywhere productive IMO.
but this makes me feel a little guilty because I don't want to condemn most humans to animal rebirths. I think a lot of Buddhists would share the view that most will go to lower planes for idly wasting their chance to pursue enlightenment and higher consciousness though.
That is where I picked up these ideas from mainly. I prefer a scenario in which all humans receive grace. But what I am illustrating is that there are certain principles of behaving that animals have more in common and that humans only partially exhibit. Useless killing of things is a highgly animal and power oriented behavior (and the politicians especially take part in this) and if one wants to live a life of bliss and transcendence and meaning one is best off abandoning the pointless killing of anything at all so as to state that by using his will he longer wishes to be aligned with the patterns that governen the negative portion of the universe, but rather would be associated with the much higher aspects of those human beings who truely excelled at living and touched the divine half of our organism.
I basically view us as half animal and half "God" and its our choice of what ratios we want to exhibit.
you just made my low dose of mushrooms very interesting
-------------------- Work like you dont need the money. Love like you never been hurt. Dance like nobody is watching.
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postanaldrip
human alien
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More impotantly than how to get rid of them is how to prevent yourslf from being surrounded by them in the first place.
We are responsible for our pets and the pests they bring into our homes.
If your home was clean before you moved in and now its infested than maybe you didnt put as much time into your dogs cleanliness as was necessary.
If your home was infested before you moved in than..... why would you move in?
It all boils down to accepting responsibility for ones actions and understanding the reason why we react to insects the way we do. They invade our homes because we are lazy. We kill them because we fear them. We fear them because they are different.
-------------------- "It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC
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fireworks_god
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Re: Killing living creatures [Re: postanaldrip]
#6493443 - 01/24/07 05:28 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are you suggesting that we construct air-tight homes, perhaps? Every time an insect enters into a home, it isn't the nature of reality, it is someone failing to be responsible for themselves.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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postanaldrip
human alien
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No, im suggesting we stop being lazy and take every precaution we can to prevent bug infestation.
If a bug does get into your home, which is going to happen no matter how clean and responsible your are, than I am suggesting to again not be lazy. Instead of instantly reacting out of fear and killing, stop for a second and assess how much danger you are really in. Chances are, you are in no immediate danger. Then, put in the effort of capturing and releasing the creature. Its pretty simple.
If a bug is poisonous and threatning your life and you have no choice but to kill or be killed than that is a different story. As is eating bugs to prevent starvation.
I'd rather marvel at their existence rather than extinguish it for no good reason at all.
-------------------- "It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC
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daytripper23
?
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Re: Killing living creatures [Re: postanaldrip]
#6494411 - 01/24/07 10:39 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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good point, i never thought of it that way.
-------------------- Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun The frumious Bandersnatch!
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House
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Re: Killing living creatures [Re: daytripper23]
#6503316 - 01/27/07 09:28 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think bugs are going a little to far since they are such simple creatures. How far are we going to go, stop spraying for malaria mosquitoes? Feed instead of get rid of your tapeworm? Stop cleaning your bathroom? No antibiotics? Take immunosuppresive drugs to stop your immune system? etc... Where are you drawing the line because all these things are 'living'
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Killing living creatures [Re: House]
#6504608 - 01/28/07 11:12 AM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think the point was being made clear earlier somewhere in the topic, if you would of just had the patience to read it. It comes down to us stop being such lazy-asses and instead of killing a bug when we see it, just throw it of the window ( you know, things that require a little common sense ). But this doesn't mean that IF your house gets bug-infested you shouldn't use insecticide and so on. I think we all have this "measurement" in us, that it we stat paying attention to, will let us know when it's right to take a more drastic action or not. Anyways, I find your question a little immature after all that debating in this thread you could of figured out a proper response.
-------------------- All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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House
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Re: Killing living creatures [Re: MushroomTrip]
#6504796 - 01/28/07 12:41 PM (17 years, 2 months ago) |
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I did read the thread still don't really understand your point. So if my house gets bug infested should I call the exterminator or not be 'lazy' and take each bug outside one by one where they probaly won't survive and starve to death because their home was in my house
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