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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/16/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: i think i just had a breakthrough....EVERYONE, or GOD IS PERFECT [Re: fivepointer]
    #6468384 - 01/17/07 03:13 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

fivepointer, you're full of nonsense. You've posted some verses, at least one of which does not actually say what you've claimed it to say, and others which I've already addressed for you a long time ago.

Also, you quote versus which make mention of hell. Hell is not a word that was ever used in the scriptures. Do you know what words are being replaced by those inferior translations? Maybe you should look them up. That site will help you with that.

It's said in the bible that "all will be reconciled to [God]."
That contradicts you. It also points to God being "all in all." Again, fivepointer, you're contradicting what's actually in the bible.

I'll just copy and paste my old response, as you're just going over old ground that you're as messed up now over as you were before. As has been thoroughly documented, you don't have any understanding of the scriptures in the bible, and I wish you'd seek some.


Edited by Disco Cat (01/17/07 03:27 AM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/16/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: i think i just had a breakthrough....EVERYONE, or GOD IS PERFECT [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6468385 - 01/17/07 03:13 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Disco Cat said:
I don't have time to explain all those versus right now, but don't worry, I will in time. Maybe I'll do one a day, maybe not. I'll just address a bit for now.

First of all, I'm not calling Jesus a liar, I'm saying that you don't understand the things Jesus said. Jesus said to test his words to see if they are true, so we'll do just that.

EXAMPLE 1:
Quote:

Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale?s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.



He was buried in a tomb for 3 day, what else do you think "in the heart of the earth" means? It's akin to when Jesus said "Elijah was to come before Jesus and restore all things" - but Elijah was really John the baptist, "if you can accept it."

"nailed to a tree" - means, the cross
"Elijah must come first" - means, John the baptist
"three days in the heart of the earth" - means, three days in a tomb

Have you learnt the type of mistake you're making?

EXAMPLE 2:
Quote:

Luke 16, describes a horrific picture of hell:

22 ... the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father?s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.




So you emphasize "place of torment" as your proof that this verse is talking about everlasting hell? You'll need to explain that. Now to use this parable*(see bottom of post) as evidence for an afterlife of hell, this needs to be a literal parable (which is an oxymoron), so that means

1. heaven is literally in Abraham's bosom. What is Abraham in then? How big is Abraham's bosom? Is there tv in his bosom?

2. we can see hell from heaven, and we can talk to people in this hell from heaven, yet there is a great gulf fixed there - yet the rich man didn't know this before he asked Abraham to send him relief. (BTW, Can people in Abraham's bosom see hell, or is it just Abraham, who is the only one outside of his own bosom?)

3. the rich man and Lazarus are real characters. If that's so, then why is the rich man's name "the rich man?"

4. "Even the dogs came and licked his sores." That line is part of the same parable, but wasn't included in your selection. Why would this man have allowed the dogs to lick his sores, and why would it be included as relevant to Jesus' message? Maybe because Jesus was trying to make him sound as pitiful as possible to make a great contract between the characters.

5. "The rich man" and Lazarus must have been good pals or something, or why else would "the rich man" specifically ask for Lazarus to dip his finger into water and cool his tongue? Why would "the rich man" have thought that such a thing could ease his suffering anyways in a "lake of unending fire," wouldn't the water have evaporated before it had gotten to him anyway?


things to note: The actual word written is Hades, not hell. Hades is a Greek mythology term, used to describe both the location of the dead, and the god of the dead. Why would Jesus use another religion's version of the afterlife? Was he maybe just trying to get a point across? hrmmm...


Now, here is what I claim the parable to be saying, which is what it represents what taken as a parable...

The people in Abraham's bosom represent those who live life according to Abraham's example - sons of Abraham. As Abraham lived well and prospered so do those who live his example, being spiritually full. The rich man did not live unselfishly, and so was separate from spiritual peace, and what really mattered. That part about how he could not send Lazarus to warn his brothers about the dangers of this way of living illustrates that you cannot be forced into living a right life, but that you must discipline yourself to live that life, and endure the results that your choices bring you.



Interesting Hell fact for the day: King David writes "Oh Lord, You brough me up from Sheol (Sheol is one of the words Hell replaces in contemporary bibles) Psalm 30:3"
David writes this while still alive, not having yet died, not even once!! How is this possible?!?!! What could it mean?


So now make your decision, fivepointer. Are you going to accept a teaching of fear, or a teaching of freedom?


"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."


from *: "he spoke to them in parables, he did not say anything to them without using a parable"
Parable means a short story acting as a metaphor to express a truth




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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/16/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: i think i just had a breakthrough....EVERYONE, or GOD IS PERFECT [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6468393 - 01/17/07 03:19 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Also, I'll make note that Solomon was a very godly prophet for God at the same time while Saul was a complete disobeyer of God, which resulted in his death.

Solomon had died before Saul, and before Saul died himself, he used a seer or whatever lady in order to contact Solomon's spirit.

Solomon was brough up and conversed with Saul, and he got angry with him for continuing to disobey God, and warned him that he would soon be killed, with his last words being "tomorrow you will be with me."

Make note that Saul was an incredible ungodly character who basically spat in God's face repeatedly.
Yet Solomon, a highly godly person says to him that after his impending death: "you will be with me."




Perhaps there should be a sticky in this forum warning people to ignore fivepointer's nonsense. I wouldn't suggest that, but it's the same thing over and over again, and if nobody's around to iron out the creases then people just go on being deceived about this particular faith because of him.


Edited by Disco Cat (01/17/07 06:36 PM)


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Offlinefivepointer
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Registered: 08/03/02
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Re: i think i just had a breakthrough....EVERYONE, or GOD IS PERFECT [Re: Disco Cat]
    #6470094 - 01/17/07 06:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well I guess we will just have to agree that we do not agree and leave it at that.


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Offlineck10n3
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 348
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Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: i think i just had a breakthrough....EVERYONE, or GOD IS PERFECT [Re: Nalim]
    #6471854 - 01/18/07 01:33 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nast said:
Perfect is pretty much only a construct of our worldly psyche..

But if I was to believe in the word perfect this would be my opinion:
If there is such a thing as a God and he is perfect, and creates imperfect beings then is not he himself flawed?

If one person is perfect and there is a God, isn't it so that god also must be perfect to create this being? And if god is perfect he only creates perfect beings and then all is perfect.

So all is perfect or all is flawed.




Sorry, but that is just taking a preconceived notion that God created us. What if my understanding of god is an energy or force?


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


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Offlineck10n3
Imagine
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Registered: 10/04/05
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Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: i think i just had a breakthrough....EVERYONE, or GOD IS PERFECT [Re: fivepointer]
    #6471977 - 01/18/07 02:09 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
Well I guess we will just have to agree that we do not agree and leave it at that.




My opinions:

Firstly, the Bible is a gathering of stories over centuries. Ever played popcorn? Enough said.

It is also odd how Greek, Assyrian and Egyptian mythology parallels that of the Bible, when some of the myths from ancient times were around a century earlier than any of Biblical texts.

Why are you taking this book as fact? Have you ever considered the world history behind the creation of the Bible, and other ancient religions?

---

Jesus was an amazing guy. He told the truth, and his words were twisted. From what I can see all of the things he said were righteous. Putting the whole "God" aspect in ruins his story. I see Jesus as another Buddha, one who knows. His descriptions of "God" were probably misinterpreted as some actual being. Sure god is singular, it is one thing that is everything. God is pure loving being in its most inexplicable form. I do not believe it is the giant Santa Zeus in the sky.


--------------------
"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.

Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.

-cK


Edited by ck10n3 (01/18/07 02:11 AM)


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