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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6466170 - 01/16/07 02:10 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Yea,I may give that a go again too,the only time I ever tried to fruit uncased it never ever pinned,Finally after weeks of thinking it gave up on me I put a casing layer on it and within days I had some of the fattest mushrooms I ever grew
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 56 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466185 - 01/16/07 02:16 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sillicybin said:
Quote:
Hotnuts said: Hydrogen peroxide is far more effective in sterilizing than an autoclave or microwave.
Okay, the microwave I can give you. But H2O2 vs. a PC/autoclave?
Prions and strain 121 are the only things surviving a good 15PSI PC run.
Wrong. Halophiles have been proven to survive entries into the Earth's atmosphere from space expeditions. Along with the heavy radioactivity in space itself.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 02:39 PM)
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HALFemptyJOSH
Magician


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 428
Loc: USA
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6466244 - 01/16/07 02:39 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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i have had contams to green-son-of-a-bitch mold a few times even after pastuerizing , oven flowhood, lysol, and microwaving procedres to my casing layers... i reccomend sterilizing as well as possible. (could just be my luck)
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6466255 - 01/16/07 02:42 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Wrong. Halophiles have been proven to survive entries into the Earth's atmosphere from space expeditions. Along with the heavy radioactive activity in space itself.
Umm yeah, but do you have 2 molar salt in your casing mix? Because I sure don't.
REGARDLESS,
Saying that hydrogen peroxide is BETTER than autoclaving at sterilizing is still rather hilarious. The strength you would need to actually sterilize would oxidize all of your peat!
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 56 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466266 - 01/16/07 02:46 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Sillicybin, i'm not saying it's better. I'm saying H202 is much more effective against a wide variety of bacterial endospores than the heat a pressure cooker can achieve. And that's a fact.
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 56 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466333 - 01/16/07 03:08 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sillicybin said:
Quote:
Hotnuts said: Wrong. Halophiles have been proven to survive entries into the Earth's atmosphere from space expeditions. Along with the heavy radioactive activity in space itself.
Umm yeah, but do you have 2 molar salt in your casing mix? Because I sure don't.
Wrong once again. It's proven that Halophilic bacterium such as strains of Bacillus are now and have been thriving in non-saline soils.
Go ahead and keep up with your Google searching. I've got a whole arsenal of fact sheets from the top bacteriologists.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 03:24 PM)
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6466502 - 01/16/07 04:08 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Go ahead and keep up with your Google searching. I've got a whole arsenal of fact sheets from the top bacteriologists.
Have it your way. Sorry, but I'll take my chances on trusting microbiology information from research papers I can find published by universities before I trust second hand information from someone here, regardless of how long they've been growing or their post count - especially when they're more interested in being "right" than being helpful.
My point is that your post was not informative or helpful. Just because there are a few species of bacteria out of TRILLIONS that might survive autoclaving, the chances of those bacteria being in YOUR casing mix or YOUR substrate is low. OH BY THE WAY, most of those thermophilic bacteria can't reproduce well (or at all) at the relatively low temperatures that you'd be incubating or fruiting at anyway!
By most folks' definitions of the word, autoclaved casing mix is STERILE.
If it's good enough for EVERY MODERN HOSPITAL IN THE WORLD, it's good enough for a stupid casing layer.
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etam
it's a hobby...


Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 1,126
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466583 - 01/16/07 04:28 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Anytime I sterilize a casing layer trich runs RAMPANT. I pasteurize the stuff. But I by no means sterilize it. I'm convinced you need the bacteria that's in the stuff to fight off trich. I've been using MGMC lately. I think I'll try casing some stuff with it straight out of the bag as RR suggests.
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466615 - 01/16/07 04:37 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Words of experience: In less than perfect conditions casing layers help TREMENDOUSLY with yields when growing cubies (fact). Also RR is right on about many other species of mushrooms not pinning on a sterilized casing mix so if your growing edibles take that into consideration.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: etam]
#6466630 - 01/16/07 04:40 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Look dude, what are we talking about here? Casing "soils", not a f'n hospital. Take a look at the types of bacterium that are in once again "soils", like peat moss, potting soils, exc. Bacillus being a dominant bacterium in soils and whole grains. Strains of Bacillus are either a prime competitor or a useful bacterium that we have to deal with in THIS hobby. In which endospores from strains of Bacillus are present within the grains we use and the casing SOILS we use. Certain strains of Bacillus ARE Halophilic! Figured it out yet man? Get the point?
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 04:45 PM)
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brainsOplenty
myconut


Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 750
Loc: on your sister
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6466835 - 01/16/07 05:34 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick said:
Quote:
Blutjager said: Ive always pasteurized casing but I think I may give sterilizing a try and see how it goes,Hippie chick you rule
Thanks 
I've gone from pasteurizing , which didn't work too well for me . to sterilizing , which did much better , to my current status . NONE . lol . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
now HC when you say none to you mean untreated casing soil, or just uncased substrates?
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!!
LIVIN THE LIFE!!!
"WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: brainsOplenty]
#6466858 - 01/16/07 05:39 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Uncased sub for cubes . I'm going uncased .
I haven't noticed enough difference in my case to go through all the added expense and time , and mess , of casing . Makes harvesting a breeze 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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etam
it's a hobby...


Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 1,126
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6466869 - 01/16/07 05:41 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick said: Uncased sub for cubes . I'm going uncased .
I haven't noticed enough difference in my case to go through all the added expense and time , and mess , of casing . Makes harvesting a breeze 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
My greenhouse's RH just doesn't stay high enough to not use a casing at all unless I'm using coir or something. But that stuff just falls apart. I'm trying water injections to keep an uncased poo cake hydrated right now though.
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brainsOplenty
myconut


Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 750
Loc: on your sister
Last seen: 3 months, 24 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6466887 - 01/16/07 05:43 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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then it looks like i'll be fruiting my bulk tubs uncased.
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!!
LIVIN THE LIFE!!!
"WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: brainsOplenty]
#6467071 - 01/16/07 06:27 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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I tried it once,wax paper and everything nd the damn thing just wouldn't pin,Ill try again,thanks allot Hippie chick
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 56 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6467242 - 01/16/07 07:15 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Wax paper works really well for Cubensis. But be patient, as the mushroom growth slows down. After the pins have set, you can remove it and mist accordingly.
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6467268 - 01/16/07 07:22 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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A toilet flush simple cube casing cover mixture is: Approximate volume of 60/40 Verm/Perlite mix. With a small handful of coir mixed in. No Ph adjustment required. 
Hydrate, bag up, nuke, cool & good to go. (nuking kills anything that might be in/on the mixture)
Verm/Perlite are both expanded minerals. Neither contains nutrients. Meaning, mold will NOT grow on them. The handful of coir, gives myc a ladder up to the surface.
The coir is the only organic matter in the mix. Myc will colonize it, before any extremal thing does.
A casing cover of this sort. Provides a moisture reservoir & micro-climate. Plus, a misting/watering shield over the substrate.
It's simple, easy & effective.
Edited by agar (01/16/07 08:01 PM)
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: agar]
#6467356 - 01/16/07 07:38 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
agar said: A toilet flush simple cube casing cover mixture is: Approximate volume of 60/40 Verm/Perlite mix. With a small handful of coir mixed in. No Ph adjustment required. 
Hydrate, bag up, nuke, cool & good to go. (nuking kills anything that might be in/on the mixture)
Verm/Perlite are both expanded minerals. Neither contains nutrients. Meaning, mold will NOT grow on them. The handful of coir, gives myc a ladder up to the surface. Coir is not prone to growing mold, either.
It's simple & effective.
How would you recommend preparing this in/on the stove or pressure cooker,I don't use a microwave
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6467467 - 01/16/07 08:04 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Figured it out yet man? Get the point?
Yes! And you're STILL arguing semantics.
For most of the world, proper autoclaving = "sterilization."
"Sterile" is one of those conditions (like "stoichiometric," for example, in a chemical reaction) that are so hard to achieve under normal circumstances that all you can really do is try to get as close as possible, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about substrates and other constituents of cultivation.
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6467494 - 01/16/07 08:10 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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No microwave 
Bake it in a casserole dish, with lid. Or, PC it in an autoclave bag, or jars. No brain surgery involved. The only reason you heat it. Is to kill whatever might be in/on it.
Hell, if you have a rice cooker. You could also steam the hell out of it, in one.
Sheez.... for that matter, you could also boil it, in a big pot.
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