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rubixcubies
porch monkey ferlyfe


Registered: 08/05/06
Posts: 1,218
Loc: ottawa on
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religious democracy
#6467209 - 01/16/07 07:07 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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it has just dawned on me recently that maybe democracy wont be instituted in iraq because the majority of the population is strictly religious and well strictly religious people are used to taking there orders from higher up (religious leaders not god) but i may be wrong... thoughts?
-------------------- i'm a very evolved ape you know.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: religious democracy [Re: rubixcubies]
#6467333 - 01/16/07 07:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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My sentiments exactly and I said pretty much the same thing in FWG Power for Struggle post.
They don't seem to understand what they are suppose to be fighting for right now. (freedom from dictators and democracy) They are having a hard time getting people to fight for the new government and set up shop for a new way of life, which is supposedly why we are still there.
These people have no clue of the ways of freedom from dictator like authorities, religious very included, or a democratic way of life. On top of that, it's looking like the majority over there, don't even want it as they see it being a threat to their religions.
Where are there masses wanting and willing to fight off the insurgents for it, now that they have a chance at it? When are they going to come forward and grab it so we can get the bleep out of there already.
I really think we are wasting time and resources over there myself for this reason.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: religious democracy [Re: rubixcubies]
#6467359 - 01/16/07 07:39 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Religion and state must be seperated for a democracy to succeed, otherwise it creates the conditions for a tyranny of the majority.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: religious democracy [Re: Basilides]
#6467385 - 01/16/07 07:45 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Like he pointed out, they have only known a way of life where their religion is tied to their state authority. They seem utterly lost here and will most likely give way to a new religious dictator who wins this civil war. Seems to me that whatever lame form of government has been estblished there, it is being completey ignored by all of the warring parties as something that doesn't even count or matter.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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They need to change their way of life. Every society has at one point. Every modern society has had a period of enlightenment.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: religious democracy [Re: Basilides]
#6467469 - 01/16/07 08:04 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is truth. A difference here is that, they themselves were not the ones who ousted Saddamn and set up a new government for themselves to serve and protect.
We came in and did that for them, I think, at a time, the vast majority over there are not wanting it or are ready and willing to make such a drastic change.
How many years has it been and look at what they have been doing to help us help them? It doesn't seem like nearly enough and look at all the resistance we are up against as well.
When we didn't find the WMD, we should've just left. So what if Saddam rearose if they let him, then, what would that tell you? These people as a whole don't seem to care. I bet a worse dictator is going to take over soon enough.
Whatever government authority is in place there is getting treated like a joke. I heard that we have been sending 21 year olds over there to help them design and create a new infrastructure for their government.
WTF does a 21 year old know about such things? Thats not even old enough to be out of college yet. 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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They're also trying to set up a "religious democracy"
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: religious democracy [Re: Basilides]
#6467521 - 01/16/07 08:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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What do you know about how this is going along and being worked out?
What does a religious democracy look like?
Religions have an authority rule based on a book written centuries ago.
How do you marry that with democracy?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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When religion and state get married, history has shown it often results in a domestic dispute.
Iraqis are very religious, yes - but Iraqis are also a majority Shi'ite, and their religion is not the religion of Sunnis. If a united secular democratic Iraq wishes to outlaw alcohol, or other aspects of social life that conflict with popular cultural practice, that is fine - civil liberties movements will be a phenom later in Iraq's history. But what is needed right now is security and the protection of minorities, which a "religious" democracy may struggle with.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: religious democracy [Re: Basilides]
#6471139 - 01/17/07 08:13 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wanted to say thanks for giving me your picture of what it looks like. I predict the execution of it over there will look like a giant bloody mess.
I got to thinking, as a result of lobbyist, the U.S. in many ways is run like a religious democracy and dictator democracy at the same time.
Religious lobbyist and big corporate lobbyist rule what appears to be a "democracy of the people" here.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Log in to view attachment
Quote:
I wanted to say thanks for giving me your picture of what it looks like. I predict the execution of it over there will look like a giant bloody mess.
Yep.

And the revolutionaries of this war are the Iraqi soldiers and police dying every day trying to build their country for the 21st century. The media rarely mentions these men. Many assume they're risking life and limb for job security, but truth is they're Iraqi patriots.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
Edited by Basilides (01/17/07 08:53 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: religious democracy [Re: Basilides]
#6471271 - 01/17/07 08:49 PM (17 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yep, only add a lot of car bombings to that painting!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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how.psilly.of.me
Stranger
Registered: 01/31/22
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This is not relevant. Just trying to reach ten posts so I can read some shit that's blocked.
-------------------- Well he said, "Your minds infected," but I said, "You lack perspective." -Ben Caplin
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