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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 8,544
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 28 minutes, 16 seconds
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Anyone not sterilze their casing layers......
#6465151 - 01/16/07 08:40 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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I just grab the verm, moisten it with a diluted form of perioxide and water, and toss it on my coloized substrate.......
Does anyone perfer to do this also (If not what is your favorite method?)
-------------------- “I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: SirTripAlot]
#6465155 - 01/16/07 08:43 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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strangladesh
masterOFpuppets


Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 815
Loc: Right Here!
Last seen: 17 years, 18 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6465272 - 01/16/07 09:39 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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i microwave mine....20 tubs cant be wrong....
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: strangladesh]
#6465583 - 01/16/07 11:20 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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PC mine . Have some over 2 months old and still clean 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
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FungiRape
The $ickest Loco

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 818
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465619 - 01/16/07 11:29 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Can i just put my casing into a mason jar and boil on a stove for an hour?
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465620 - 01/16/07 11:29 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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I PC mine also never a problem. I would never recommend not treating the casing mix somehow as that can easily lead to failure (contams) after all that hard work! casing layers are best kept very moist if you want good yields that is, this condition leaves them susceptible to soil borne pathogens in many cases especially if using a coir based casing mix. GL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: FungiRape]
#6465624 - 01/16/07 11:31 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
FungiRape said: Can i just put my casing into a mason jar and boil on a stove for an hour?
That will not be sufficient microwaving would be a better choice.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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FungiRape
The $ickest Loco

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 818
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: hyphae]
#6465670 - 01/16/07 11:43 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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ok
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phoenity
Stranger

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 92
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6465750 - 01/16/07 12:10 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
I will be doing my first casing soon and am curious as to why you would recommend against sterlization.
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: phoenity]
#6465754 - 01/16/07 12:13 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
I will be doing my first casing soon and am curious as to why you would recommend against sterlization.
Because , that's what works for him , hence , the recommendation . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 54 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465814 - 01/16/07 12:33 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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It would take hours of autoclaving or numerous minutes of a microwaving process to completely sterilize a casing material.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 12:34 PM)
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465852 - 01/16/07 12:46 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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The only time I have ever gotten trichoderma (other than on straw substrate) was when I decided that I would not sterilize my casing mix and use a H2O2/water mix.
H2O2 killed all the bacteria in the peat, and let the trich run wild.
I now sterilize my casing mixes, and don't have any problems.
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phoenity
Stranger

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 92
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465888 - 01/16/07 12:55 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick said:
Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
I will be doing my first casing soon and am curious as to why you would recommend against sterlization.
Because , that's what works for him , hence , the recommendation . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
Everyone else who posted seemed to have a complete opposite experience. Maybe he knows something they don't, hence the question...
Just from his wording it seemed like a general instruction rather than just recommendation based on personal experience.
Edited by phoenity (01/16/07 12:57 PM)
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 54 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6465895 - 01/16/07 12:58 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Hydrogen peroxide is far more effective in sterilizing than an autoclave or microwave. When you autoclave or microwave casing mixes, you are not sterilizing them. You're simply cleaning the material up of molds and a majority of the endospores. By no means are you harming all of the microbic endospores. If you were, the material would explode in bread molds or harmful bacterium once introduced to the non-sterile air, your hands, breath, exc.
Check out Dr. Craig Venter's microbial research if you have a big interest in this topic.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 01:01 PM)
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atomic1
enthusiast


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 1,123
Loc: Appalachia
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: SirTripAlot]
#6465919 - 01/16/07 01:04 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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I only pasteurize or nuke a little bit. Verm should be sterile straight from the bag due to the high temps it undergoes during production.
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: phoenity]
#6465935 - 01/16/07 01:08 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
HippieChick said:
Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
I will be doing my first casing soon and am curious as to why you would recommend against sterlization.
Because , that's what works for him , hence , the recommendation . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
Everyone else who posted seemed to have a complete opposite experience. Maybe he knows something they don't, hence the question...
Just from his wording it seemed like a general instruction rather than just recommendation based on personal experience.
Nope . Just a SERIOUS suggestion .lol . I don't agree with RR on this , never have , and sterilize mine, 90minutes at 15 psi . Has worked out great for me .
This is one of those cases where you do what works for you . 
Try some both ways so you can make an informed decision on what works best for you .
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6465995 - 01/16/07 01:28 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Hydrogen peroxide is far more effective in sterilizing than an autoclave or microwave.
Okay, the microwave I can give you. But H2O2 vs. a PC/autoclave?
Prions and strain 121 are the only things surviving a good 15PSI PC run.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466101 - 01/16/07 01:55 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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The reason it works with cubes is because they don't even require a casing layer. In fact, on bulk substrates, cubes will fruit as well without a casing if other conditions are met.
I can't think of one single species of mushroom that REQUIRES a casing layer that will fruit on a sterilized one. If you never plan to grow anything but cubes or copes, then sterilize away, or skip the trouble and don't bother with casing.
However, if you look at cubes as an introduction to mushroom growing, then try the techniques out that you'll need later on when you move to much less forgiving species. If you try to fruit azures, agaricus, shaggy manes, stropharia, etc., etc., on a sterilized casing, they will sit there and refuse to pin. The casing will turn green long before the beneficial organisms that aid in pinning can get re-established.
I have several trays in my grow area right now that are well over a month old, and the casing layers were not heat treated. None have shown the slightest signs of trichoderma.
If you read the chapters in stamets books on casing preparation, whether you look in TMC or GGMM written almost 10 years later, you will find no mention of sterilizing or pasteurizing casing material. Stamets writes that the casing is "wetted to field capacity, then applied to the fully colonized substrate".
I work directly with three mushroom farms in my area, supplying them with sterile cultures and lab work. NONE of them pasteurize or sterilize casing material. It only seems to be in the OMC where people recommend this. In the real world, where failure of a tray means lots of lost money, and the chance that the infection can spread to thousands of trays, they don't sterilize their casings.
Remember, cubes are so easy to grow, they practically grow themselves. They don't need a casing layer, so they fruit just fine if one is prepared incorrectly, or not even used at all. However, it's a mistake to develop bad habits that will have to be UN-learned later on.
Another point to take note of is that all three mushroom farms I work with got their start because of the owner's interest in psilocybin mushrooms. It then progressed to edibles and a very good living. They're millionaires now. Don't teach yourselves bad habits. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6466128 - 01/16/07 01:59 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Ive always pasteurized casing but I think I may give sterilizing a try and see how it goes,Hippie chick you rule
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6466143 - 01/16/07 02:03 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blutjager said: Ive always pasteurized casing but I think I may give sterilizing a try and see how it goes,Hippie chick you rule
Thanks 
I've gone from pasteurizing , which didn't work too well for me . to sterilizing , which did much better , to my current status . NONE . lol . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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