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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 8,544
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 29 minutes, 8 seconds
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Anyone not sterilze their casing layers......
#6465151 - 01/16/07 08:40 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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I just grab the verm, moisten it with a diluted form of perioxide and water, and toss it on my coloized substrate.......
Does anyone perfer to do this also (If not what is your favorite method?)
-------------------- “I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: SirTripAlot]
#6465155 - 01/16/07 08:43 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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strangladesh
masterOFpuppets


Registered: 10/17/05
Posts: 815
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6465272 - 01/16/07 09:39 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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i microwave mine....20 tubs cant be wrong....
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: strangladesh]
#6465583 - 01/16/07 11:20 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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PC mine . Have some over 2 months old and still clean 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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FungiRape
The $ickest Loco

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 818
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465619 - 01/16/07 11:29 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Can i just put my casing into a mason jar and boil on a stove for an hour?
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465620 - 01/16/07 11:29 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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I PC mine also never a problem. I would never recommend not treating the casing mix somehow as that can easily lead to failure (contams) after all that hard work! casing layers are best kept very moist if you want good yields that is, this condition leaves them susceptible to soil borne pathogens in many cases especially if using a coir based casing mix. GL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: FungiRape]
#6465624 - 01/16/07 11:31 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
FungiRape said: Can i just put my casing into a mason jar and boil on a stove for an hour?
That will not be sufficient microwaving would be a better choice.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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FungiRape
The $ickest Loco

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 818
Last seen: 17 years, 11 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: hyphae]
#6465670 - 01/16/07 11:43 AM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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ok
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phoenity
Stranger

Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 92
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6465750 - 01/16/07 12:10 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
I will be doing my first casing soon and am curious as to why you would recommend against sterlization.
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: phoenity]
#6465754 - 01/16/07 12:13 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
I will be doing my first casing soon and am curious as to why you would recommend against sterlization.
Because , that's what works for him , hence , the recommendation . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
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Last seen: 2 days, 55 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465814 - 01/16/07 12:33 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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It would take hours of autoclaving or numerous minutes of a microwaving process to completely sterilize a casing material.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 12:34 PM)
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465852 - 01/16/07 12:46 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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The only time I have ever gotten trichoderma (other than on straw substrate) was when I decided that I would not sterilize my casing mix and use a H2O2/water mix.
H2O2 killed all the bacteria in the peat, and let the trich run wild.
I now sterilize my casing mixes, and don't have any problems.
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phoenity
Stranger

Registered: 12/18/06
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6465888 - 01/16/07 12:55 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick said:
Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
I will be doing my first casing soon and am curious as to why you would recommend against sterlization.
Because , that's what works for him , hence , the recommendation . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
Everyone else who posted seemed to have a complete opposite experience. Maybe he knows something they don't, hence the question...
Just from his wording it seemed like a general instruction rather than just recommendation based on personal experience.
Edited by phoenity (01/16/07 12:57 PM)
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6465895 - 01/16/07 12:58 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Hydrogen peroxide is far more effective in sterilizing than an autoclave or microwave. When you autoclave or microwave casing mixes, you are not sterilizing them. You're simply cleaning the material up of molds and a majority of the endospores. By no means are you harming all of the microbic endospores. If you were, the material would explode in bread molds or harmful bacterium once introduced to the non-sterile air, your hands, breath, exc.
Check out Dr. Craig Venter's microbial research if you have a big interest in this topic.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 01:01 PM)
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atomic1
enthusiast


Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 1,123
Loc: Appalachia
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: SirTripAlot]
#6465919 - 01/16/07 01:04 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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I only pasteurize or nuke a little bit. Verm should be sterile straight from the bag due to the high temps it undergoes during production.
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: phoenity]
#6465935 - 01/16/07 01:08 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
HippieChick said:
Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: One should never sterilize a casing layer unless you're fond of green molds. You can probably skip the peroxide too. Either leave a casing layer untreated, or pasteurize only. RR
I will be doing my first casing soon and am curious as to why you would recommend against sterlization.
Because , that's what works for him , hence , the recommendation . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
Everyone else who posted seemed to have a complete opposite experience. Maybe he knows something they don't, hence the question...
Just from his wording it seemed like a general instruction rather than just recommendation based on personal experience.
Nope . Just a SERIOUS suggestion .lol . I don't agree with RR on this , never have , and sterilize mine, 90minutes at 15 psi . Has worked out great for me .
This is one of those cases where you do what works for you . 
Try some both ways so you can make an informed decision on what works best for you .
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6465995 - 01/16/07 01:28 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Hydrogen peroxide is far more effective in sterilizing than an autoclave or microwave.
Okay, the microwave I can give you. But H2O2 vs. a PC/autoclave?
Prions and strain 121 are the only things surviving a good 15PSI PC run.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure


Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466101 - 01/16/07 01:55 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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The reason it works with cubes is because they don't even require a casing layer. In fact, on bulk substrates, cubes will fruit as well without a casing if other conditions are met.
I can't think of one single species of mushroom that REQUIRES a casing layer that will fruit on a sterilized one. If you never plan to grow anything but cubes or copes, then sterilize away, or skip the trouble and don't bother with casing.
However, if you look at cubes as an introduction to mushroom growing, then try the techniques out that you'll need later on when you move to much less forgiving species. If you try to fruit azures, agaricus, shaggy manes, stropharia, etc., etc., on a sterilized casing, they will sit there and refuse to pin. The casing will turn green long before the beneficial organisms that aid in pinning can get re-established.
I have several trays in my grow area right now that are well over a month old, and the casing layers were not heat treated. None have shown the slightest signs of trichoderma.
If you read the chapters in stamets books on casing preparation, whether you look in TMC or GGMM written almost 10 years later, you will find no mention of sterilizing or pasteurizing casing material. Stamets writes that the casing is "wetted to field capacity, then applied to the fully colonized substrate".
I work directly with three mushroom farms in my area, supplying them with sterile cultures and lab work. NONE of them pasteurize or sterilize casing material. It only seems to be in the OMC where people recommend this. In the real world, where failure of a tray means lots of lost money, and the chance that the infection can spread to thousands of trays, they don't sterilize their casings.
Remember, cubes are so easy to grow, they practically grow themselves. They don't need a casing layer, so they fruit just fine if one is prepared incorrectly, or not even used at all. However, it's a mistake to develop bad habits that will have to be UN-learned later on.
Another point to take note of is that all three mushroom farms I work with got their start because of the owner's interest in psilocybin mushrooms. It then progressed to edibles and a very good living. They're millionaires now. Don't teach yourselves bad habits. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6466128 - 01/16/07 01:59 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Ive always pasteurized casing but I think I may give sterilizing a try and see how it goes,Hippie chick you rule
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6466143 - 01/16/07 02:03 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blutjager said: Ive always pasteurized casing but I think I may give sterilizing a try and see how it goes,Hippie chick you rule
Thanks 
I've gone from pasteurizing , which didn't work too well for me . to sterilizing , which did much better , to my current status . NONE . lol . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6466170 - 01/16/07 02:10 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Yea,I may give that a go again too,the only time I ever tried to fruit uncased it never ever pinned,Finally after weeks of thinking it gave up on me I put a casing layer on it and within days I had some of the fattest mushrooms I ever grew
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 55 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466185 - 01/16/07 02:16 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sillicybin said:
Quote:
Hotnuts said: Hydrogen peroxide is far more effective in sterilizing than an autoclave or microwave.
Okay, the microwave I can give you. But H2O2 vs. a PC/autoclave?
Prions and strain 121 are the only things surviving a good 15PSI PC run.
Wrong. Halophiles have been proven to survive entries into the Earth's atmosphere from space expeditions. Along with the heavy radioactivity in space itself.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 02:39 PM)
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HALFemptyJOSH
Magician


Registered: 09/01/03
Posts: 428
Loc: USA
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6466244 - 01/16/07 02:39 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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i have had contams to green-son-of-a-bitch mold a few times even after pastuerizing , oven flowhood, lysol, and microwaving procedres to my casing layers... i reccomend sterilizing as well as possible. (could just be my luck)
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6466255 - 01/16/07 02:42 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Wrong. Halophiles have been proven to survive entries into the Earth's atmosphere from space expeditions. Along with the heavy radioactive activity in space itself.
Umm yeah, but do you have 2 molar salt in your casing mix? Because I sure don't.
REGARDLESS,
Saying that hydrogen peroxide is BETTER than autoclaving at sterilizing is still rather hilarious. The strength you would need to actually sterilize would oxidize all of your peat!
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466266 - 01/16/07 02:46 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Sillicybin, i'm not saying it's better. I'm saying H202 is much more effective against a wide variety of bacterial endospores than the heat a pressure cooker can achieve. And that's a fact.
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 55 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466333 - 01/16/07 03:08 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Sillicybin said:
Quote:
Hotnuts said: Wrong. Halophiles have been proven to survive entries into the Earth's atmosphere from space expeditions. Along with the heavy radioactive activity in space itself.
Umm yeah, but do you have 2 molar salt in your casing mix? Because I sure don't.
Wrong once again. It's proven that Halophilic bacterium such as strains of Bacillus are now and have been thriving in non-saline soils.
Go ahead and keep up with your Google searching. I've got a whole arsenal of fact sheets from the top bacteriologists.
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 03:24 PM)
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6466502 - 01/16/07 04:08 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Go ahead and keep up with your Google searching. I've got a whole arsenal of fact sheets from the top bacteriologists.
Have it your way. Sorry, but I'll take my chances on trusting microbiology information from research papers I can find published by universities before I trust second hand information from someone here, regardless of how long they've been growing or their post count - especially when they're more interested in being "right" than being helpful.
My point is that your post was not informative or helpful. Just because there are a few species of bacteria out of TRILLIONS that might survive autoclaving, the chances of those bacteria being in YOUR casing mix or YOUR substrate is low. OH BY THE WAY, most of those thermophilic bacteria can't reproduce well (or at all) at the relatively low temperatures that you'd be incubating or fruiting at anyway!
By most folks' definitions of the word, autoclaved casing mix is STERILE.
If it's good enough for EVERY MODERN HOSPITAL IN THE WORLD, it's good enough for a stupid casing layer.
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etam
it's a hobby...


Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 1,126
Loc: East Coast
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466583 - 01/16/07 04:28 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Anytime I sterilize a casing layer trich runs RAMPANT. I pasteurize the stuff. But I by no means sterilize it. I'm convinced you need the bacteria that's in the stuff to fight off trich. I've been using MGMC lately. I think I'll try casing some stuff with it straight out of the bag as RR suggests.
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: Sillicybin]
#6466615 - 01/16/07 04:37 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Words of experience: In less than perfect conditions casing layers help TREMENDOUSLY with yields when growing cubies (fact). Also RR is right on about many other species of mushrooms not pinning on a sterilized casing mix so if your growing edibles take that into consideration.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
Loc: Wild Blue Yawnder
Last seen: 2 days, 55 minutes
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: etam]
#6466630 - 01/16/07 04:40 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Look dude, what are we talking about here? Casing "soils", not a f'n hospital. Take a look at the types of bacterium that are in once again "soils", like peat moss, potting soils, exc. Bacillus being a dominant bacterium in soils and whole grains. Strains of Bacillus are either a prime competitor or a useful bacterium that we have to deal with in THIS hobby. In which endospores from strains of Bacillus are present within the grains we use and the casing SOILS we use. Certain strains of Bacillus ARE Halophilic! Figured it out yet man? Get the point?
Edited by Hotnuts (01/16/07 04:45 PM)
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brainsOplenty
myconut


Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 750
Loc: on your sister
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6466835 - 01/16/07 05:34 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick said:
Quote:
Blutjager said: Ive always pasteurized casing but I think I may give sterilizing a try and see how it goes,Hippie chick you rule
Thanks 
I've gone from pasteurizing , which didn't work too well for me . to sterilizing , which did much better , to my current status . NONE . lol . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
now HC when you say none to you mean untreated casing soil, or just uncased substrates?
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!!
LIVIN THE LIFE!!!
"WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 2 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: brainsOplenty]
#6466858 - 01/16/07 05:39 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Uncased sub for cubes . I'm going uncased .
I haven't noticed enough difference in my case to go through all the added expense and time , and mess , of casing . Makes harvesting a breeze 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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etam
it's a hobby...


Registered: 04/24/06
Posts: 1,126
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6466869 - 01/16/07 05:41 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick said: Uncased sub for cubes . I'm going uncased .
I haven't noticed enough difference in my case to go through all the added expense and time , and mess , of casing . Makes harvesting a breeze 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
My greenhouse's RH just doesn't stay high enough to not use a casing at all unless I'm using coir or something. But that stuff just falls apart. I'm trying water injections to keep an uncased poo cake hydrated right now though.
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brainsOplenty
myconut


Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 750
Loc: on your sister
Last seen: 3 months, 24 days
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6466887 - 01/16/07 05:43 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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then it looks like i'll be fruiting my bulk tubs uncased.
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!!
LIVIN THE LIFE!!!
"WE KNOCK NIGGAS OUT AND MAKE EM BOUNCE LIKE RICKY HATTON"- IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE
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Blutjager
Inhuman


Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: brainsOplenty]
#6467071 - 01/16/07 06:27 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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I tried it once,wax paper and everything nd the damn thing just wouldn't pin,Ill try again,thanks allot Hippie chick
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Hotnuts
old hand


Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 3,436
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6467242 - 01/16/07 07:15 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Wax paper works really well for Cubensis. But be patient, as the mushroom growth slows down. After the pins have set, you can remove it and mist accordingly.
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agar
old hand


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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6467268 - 01/16/07 07:22 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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A toilet flush simple cube casing cover mixture is: Approximate volume of 60/40 Verm/Perlite mix. With a small handful of coir mixed in. No Ph adjustment required. 
Hydrate, bag up, nuke, cool & good to go. (nuking kills anything that might be in/on the mixture)
Verm/Perlite are both expanded minerals. Neither contains nutrients. Meaning, mold will NOT grow on them. The handful of coir, gives myc a ladder up to the surface.
The coir is the only organic matter in the mix. Myc will colonize it, before any extremal thing does.
A casing cover of this sort. Provides a moisture reservoir & micro-climate. Plus, a misting/watering shield over the substrate.
It's simple, easy & effective.
Edited by agar (01/16/07 08:01 PM)
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Blutjager
Inhuman


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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: agar]
#6467356 - 01/16/07 07:38 PM (18 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
agar said: A toilet flush simple cube casing cover mixture is: Approximate volume of 60/40 Verm/Perlite mix. With a small handful of coir mixed in. No Ph adjustment required. 
Hydrate, bag up, nuke, cool & good to go. (nuking kills anything that might be in/on the mixture)
Verm/Perlite are both expanded minerals. Neither contains nutrients. Meaning, mold will NOT grow on them. The handful of coir, gives myc a ladder up to the surface. Coir is not prone to growing mold, either.
It's simple & effective.
How would you recommend preparing this in/on the stove or pressure cooker,I don't use a microwave
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Sillicybin
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Hotnuts]
#6467467 - 01/16/07 08:04 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said: Figured it out yet man? Get the point?
Yes! And you're STILL arguing semantics.
For most of the world, proper autoclaving = "sterilization."
"Sterile" is one of those conditions (like "stoichiometric," for example, in a chemical reaction) that are so hard to achieve under normal circumstances that all you can really do is try to get as close as possible, ESPECIALLY when you're talking about substrates and other constituents of cultivation.
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agar
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6467494 - 01/16/07 08:10 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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No microwave 
Bake it in a casserole dish, with lid. Or, PC it in an autoclave bag, or jars. No brain surgery involved. The only reason you heat it. Is to kill whatever might be in/on it.
Hell, if you have a rice cooker. You could also steam the hell out of it, in one.
Sheez.... for that matter, you could also boil it, in a big pot.
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Blutjager
Inhuman


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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: agar]
#6467507 - 01/16/07 08:14 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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So how long in the PC would be good ??
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zathan
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6467592 - 01/16/07 08:37 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Basically, I just pour boiling water to hydrate a casing layer, cover and let cool, then hand squeeze right before I apply. No problems, really easy.
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agar
old hand


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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6467600 - 01/16/07 08:39 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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If you are not packing in LARGE amounts, tightly in bags. I would think about 1/2 the time you do grain spawn jars.
It's a cooking thing.
It takes far less time. To cook a 3 lb chicken. Than it does. A 30 lb turkey.
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tonyperez420
Shaman Rasta

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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: agar]
#6467646 - 01/16/07 08:55 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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I have microwaved my casings for 10 mins on high was getting contams, just on my casing layer
now I PC for 30 mins which has been working pretty good I think I may move it up to 40 mins + if I get any more contams
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MajorDick
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: agar]
#6467740 - 01/16/07 09:18 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
agar said: A toilet flush simple cube casing cover mixture is: Approximate volume of 60/40 Verm/Perlite mix. With a small handful of coir mixed in. No Ph adjustment required. 
Good god thats genius!
I'm gonna have to try that a few times. Do ya think a 1:5 ratio would be good? (sub/casing) Thinking that would hold a lot of water.
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tonyperez420
Shaman Rasta

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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6469257 - 01/17/07 11:55 AM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
If you read the chapters in stamets books on casing preparation, whether you look in TMC or GGMM written almost 10 years later, you will find no mention of sterilizing or pasteurizing casing material.
Your are incorrect here RR
pg 130 TMC
Stamets does say to pasteurize
"evenly steamed for 2 hours at 160F"
OR
"bake the moist soil in an oven for two hours at 160F"
He also speaks of hygienic quality of casing soil... but HOW is an average cultivator suppose to know this???
RR your clean procedures must be impeccable
Everybody else, PC your casing!
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Hotnuts
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: tonyperez420]
#6469304 - 01/17/07 12:05 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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I've never tried pc'ing or microwaving my casing material. Reason being is; I use far too much of it in order to do it in these manners. But I ALWAYS pasteurize my material for an hour prior to using it. I've seen far too many molds inside of bags of material to try otherwise.
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phoenity
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6469794 - 01/17/07 02:37 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: In fact, on bulk substrates, cubes will fruit as well without a casing if other conditions are met. RR
So what exactly are these conditions? I have a pretty good idea but maybe there is something I have missed in my reading.
I would much rather attempt to meet these optimal conditions to save the trouble of a casing layer.
I've heard people say a casing layer will help with flushes after the first, but wouldn't dunking after each flush serve the same purpose?
Quote:
Correct. You can't have a 'casing' unless you have a casing. What you're fruiting is an uncased bulk substrate. It should do fine, although a properly made and maintained casing layer will increase both pinsets and eventual harvests by transferring moisture from your mister to the mycelium as the fruits draw it out. RR
Although, in another post I read of yours it sounds as if you were advocating a casing layer.
Edited by phoenity (01/17/07 02:44 PM)
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Sillicybin
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: phoenity]
#6469869 - 01/17/07 03:03 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
phoenity said: I've heard people say a casing layer will help with flushes after the first, but wouldn't dunking after each flush serve the same purpose?
HippieChick employs this method.
Optimal for uncased is 100%RH with good FAE, temp 70-75*F.
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creamcorn
mad scientist


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Posts: 2,962
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: phoenity]
#6469892 - 01/17/07 03:09 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
phoenity said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: In fact, on bulk substrates, cubes will fruit as well without a casing if other conditions are met. RR
So what exactly are these conditions? I have a pretty good idea but maybe there is something I have missed in my reading.
I would much rather attempt to meet these optimal conditions to save the trouble of a casing layer.
That condition would be keeping it near 100% RH. Basically, an uncased bulk substrate has the same requirements as a cake. Fresh air becomes more of an issue though, a large mass of substrate needs more frequent FAE, and frequent FAE makes it difficult to keep RH up. A casing layer is far more forgiving when it comes to the RH - its moist itself, so it holds a pocket of high humidity down at the surface of your substrate, where its needed, to stimulate pin development.
In my personal opinion a casing layer is *always* worth the trouble. Effort spent on prepping it really isn't all that much, and effort saved trying to juggle difficult environmental conditions and having to re-hydrate solely through dunking more than balances out. Again, my opinion (shared by many but not all) so take it for whatever its worth.
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: creamcorn]
#6470259 - 01/17/07 04:42 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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You must not prepare your's the way I do . I double sift all the peat . It takes me almost a day to sift all the peat alone . I did do it in big batches though .
Cool mist with an ultrasonic running almost all day makes for excellent FAE , one exchange every 10 minutes , and humidity stays near 97% .

Whatever works for you . 
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
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hyphae
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6470747 - 01/17/07 06:47 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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I'm with creamcorn here a casing is worth the effort and remember all situations are not the same. I like the buffering fact that allows for less maintenance in less than perfect conditions.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Blutjager
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: hyphae]
#6470984 - 01/17/07 07:36 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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I have a question for you Hippie Chick,I imagine your ability to fruit uncased substrates so successfully has a bit to do with you running an ultrasonic as well as a cool mist,If I were do buy a ultrasonic I would need to put it on the top shelf wouldn't I ?? And wouldn't it just over saturate the casings beneath it,and if I put it on the bottom next to the cool mist would it even do any good at all or would all the mist just go down and soak my perlite
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HippieChick
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6470993 - 01/17/07 07:39 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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I put mine in the cool mist . No need for any extra piping
 
and the mist just flows through the whole GH 

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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Cracka_X
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6471012 - 01/17/07 07:45 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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This may come off as a stupid question BUT...
when you PC/sterilize the casing, do you dump all the casing into the pot or put it in jars or something? How's this work with the water used to PC??
-------------------- The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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HippieChick
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Cracka_X]
#6471025 - 01/17/07 07:49 PM (18 years, 4 days ago) |
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I PC mine in quart jars, a little on the dry side . It spreads easier this way , doesn't clump , and I can spray it to get it to field capacity after it's applied .
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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Blutjager
Inhuman


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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6471273 - 01/17/07 08:51 PM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
HippieChick said: I put mine in the cool mist . No need for any extra piping
 
and the mist just flows through the whole GH 

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
well as always you inspire me...how hard is that to do,not for you but I mean for an unhandy person like me who calls a plumber over for a leaky faucet
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!


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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Blutjager]
#6471281 - 01/17/07 08:53 PM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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It's easy as pie . Little PVC .
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness
HC
Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose..............
I LUV My Greenhouse
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848
My First Pans
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper



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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: HippieChick]
#6472019 - 01/18/07 12:21 AM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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awesome, thanks hippiechick!
-------------------- The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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agar
old hand


Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: Cracka_X]
#6472186 - 01/18/07 01:14 AM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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A single disk fogger sprays out about 10 ml per hour. An impeller type cool mist, about the same mist amount, or more. Most fogger manufacturers recommend not running a fogger. More that 8 continuous hours. A cool mist, you can run 24/7. I would suggest having the fogger on a timer. So, you don't burn it out. Just my take in the combo.
You can also up-size:
 
 
 
18 gallon plastic drum Fogger, bubble wand, aquarium heater. (all in the drum) Small fan & PVC pipe.
On timers, unit will run a couple weeks. (15 minutes off/on 24/7) At 95/97 Rh output. Without a refill. Plus, easy to refill.
Heater in water barrel, maintains mist output temperature. Simple to build, if you can find/acquire the right drum & fan.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Anyone not sterilize their casing layers...... [Re: tonyperez420]
#6472924 - 01/18/07 10:50 AM (18 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
tonyperez420 said:
Your are incorrect here RR
pg 130 TMC
Stamets does say to pasteurize
"evenly steamed for 2 hours at 160F"
OR
"bake the moist soil in an oven for two hours at 160F"
No, I'm not incorrect. After describing how to make peat based casings without pasteurization, he says as an after thought in the last paragraph that if you use use SOIL as a casing layer, that you CAN pasteurize it. Paul was talking about using a shovelful of dirt from the backyard. Peat based casings are recommended(by him) to be unpasteurized.
I've done it both ways, and I hesitate to recommend one way or the other for cubes because it makes such little difference. As said, a properly made casing layer will increase pinsets and yields. However, with a soak(I hate the word 'dunk') and a sheet of wax paper over the uncased substrate, pinsets and yields can come close to or equal a casing layer covered substrate.
My main point about sterilizing casing layers is that one, it makes them more prone to contamination, not less. A sterilized substrate is prime food for whatever organism is the first to land on it. Second, many gourmet species will not fruit on a pasteurized or sterilized substrate/casing. Eventually, most growers either move from cubes to more difficult species to grow, or they lose interest in the hobby and quit growing. I just feel it's important to learn procedures that you can use later. I hope this clears it up. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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remmy5676
Guy


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Re: Anyone not sterilze their casing layers...... [Re: SirTripAlot]
#11717578 - 12/25/09 04:36 PM (15 years, 26 days ago) |
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I have only hydrated my casing layer (verm, lime, n gypsum) in peroxide water and have not had any problems with contams yet.
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You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.
You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.
We are all the a part of the same compost heap.
We are the all singing all dancing crap of the world. - Tyler Durden
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