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 CerebralFlower
whats left?
Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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 Re: Suffering...  [Re: leery11]
#6460269 - 01/14/07 08:33 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:
i notice sometimes that thoughts and emotional patterns come from my body as well
Quote:
How can we seperate the physical and mental if the two are tied together? If atleast some of our thoughts come from, or are influenced by, our physical body, and our pyhsical body is influenced by our thoughts, how can one draw a distinction?
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God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire
Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play
Edited by CerebralFlower (01/14/07 08:48 PM)
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 14 days
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why would we draw a distinction?
mind influences body (we have a new body every 2 years) and body influences mind (for instnace chiropracting will help you focus better and have better balance and happiness, and yoga by healing the body heals the mind)
our mind is affixed to our body but it seems that the mind can leave it if one tries hard enough.
what are you asking?
perhaps this is how pain is an illusion.
though, i am not sure if my neck being out of alignment is an illusion.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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 dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Quote:
CerebralFlower said:
Sadness is not mental pain?
Well by the above definition sadness would be suffering. Though that's just semantics I'm using to try to clarify the situation.
Sadness is suffering only so long as at any level you don't want to be sad. And generally speaking, so long as there is an "I" to be sad, "I" doesn't want to be sad.
I think we're seeing mostly eye to eye on this.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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CerebralFlower
whats left?
Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Suffering... [Re: dblaney]
#6460703 - 01/14/07 11:09 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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probably not, youre all the way up there :p
Well even if you embrace your sadness, is that not suffering?
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God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire
Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Hehe
No, though, I don't think it is. If you truly and completely embrace, accept, and experience the sadness, I don't think it's suffering. Once you truly experience it (as in, there is only the sensation, no thoughts about it, and no trace of notions such as subject and object), then how could one suffer? In fact, there is a subtle and lasting joy underlying the feelings, no matter how good or bad or transient they are.
As the RHCP say, "Because I'm happy to be sad". That's pretty much sums it up. If you don't want to be sad, or think you shouldn't be sad, or think you should or even must be happy, then that creates needless suffering. If you're sad, then that's what's happening in this present moment. Accept it, embrace it, experience it. But don't attach to it, just let it happen. Then in the next moment, another feeling may arise.
Emotions are tricky though. One Master differentiates between true emotion and false emotion. According to her, false emotion is what most of us experience. When we remember something that happened and experience an emotional reaction to it, or imagine something that may happen and experience an emotional reaction to that, these are false emotions. True emotion is very dynamic. It arises for a moment, in response to whatever the situation of the present moment is, then just as quickly, it fades away. True emotion is emotion that is accepted, embraced, and truly experienced, and not colored by our own ego-based desires, attractions, aversions, hopes, dreams, imaginings, etc.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: Suffering... [Re: dblaney]
#6461855 - 01/15/07 11:26 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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suffering is only a state of mind. mind over matter, and I don't need any dogma practice to define it and understand it.
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CerebralFlower
whats left?
Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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what about the desire to have kids, that cannot be avoided. and the desire to eat and drink,... bah this is about to get stupid, nevermind..
I agree about embracing youre feelings, and that makes you feel good... but when i cry, i still say that is suffering. when i get a cut, i call that suffering. maybe you guys define it differntly.
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God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire
Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,172
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in the first post
confused thinking emerges and remains strong throughout this thread
"mother nature would have it no other way"
maybe we have a spokesman for an anthroposized gaia
do we know the intent of DNA? does DNA have intent? Intelligent design anybody?
As I see it pain and suffering do go together.
pain in the face of natural circumstances (mother nature?) will vary
- from person to person -
based upon constitution (a person's physical health),
and inclination (a person's disposition towards suffering)
the disposition towards suffering is the most important thing to examine:
except for psychopaths, we are inclined to suffer when we feel guilty. Suffering is like feedback for pain and it has it's roots in this.
this is Karma (is that mother nature?)
anyway I agree that we need not suffer as much as we do or as much as the next guy if we are clear minded and if we conduct ourselves as the 8foldpath suggests.
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 _  🧠_ 
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Well written post. I'm curious...if you had to define suffering and define pain, how would you do it?
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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CerebralFlower
whats left?
Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 1,326
Loc: only the truth is left
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Suffering... [Re: dblaney]
#6462830 - 01/15/07 04:05 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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yea, that is some good insight redgreen_vibes...
Me, define suffering as- having to go through someone you wouldnt choose to? Or going through someone 'hard' These are subjective and kinda unclear, i hope you get it.
pain- physical or mental suffering?
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God says dance with your heart
And shake free of you desire
Where theres a will theres always a way
When you get confused listen to the music play
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