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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
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Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Economist]
    #6447303 - 01/10/07 11:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
And that's why the correct answer to the original poll is "the black", like it or not they are the only variable left that is constant.



I already pointed out above that there are variables not measured in this poll, such as the crack vs. powder cocaine laws, and the nature of policing strategies (as one example, black neighborhoods are more patrolled, so beat-cops witness more black crime).




With all due respect... The crack vs cocaine discrepancy and the negro's failure to adjust to it accordingly just serve to illustrate my point here.

There's a reason why sending a police officer to a black neighborhood is cost effective. If you send a cop to my neighborhood he will just stand around and freeze his ass off, Send him to a black "hood" and yes, a black will soon present him with a view of a crime and he will arrest someone. Illustrating my point even further.


--------------------
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OfflineArcofaJourney
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6447665 - 01/11/07 04:09 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
I can understand why you may feel like that, however this is an objective analysis. Nothing is being cut in stone here.

If you can explain why the black cannot after 20 years prevent the prisons from remaining 90% black then let us know please, we wanna know.

I have Darwin on the phone....




i feel that way because i know and have witnessed the system work against the blacks. It's easy for you to look at a page of statistics and come to all kinds of race-based conclusions, but statistics never tell the full story. You don't seem to remember that the cultural and financial growth of the black culture in America was retarded since it's plantation on these soils and still is. i'm sure Darwin will tell you that when one species is dominated by another within a certain area, that the dominated species will struggle for centuries. You're not talking about something that can be changed in a generation or two.

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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #6448374 - 01/11/07 10:52 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Unless you drop acid.


--------------------
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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #6448418 - 01/11/07 11:07 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

So, can you explain why Jefferson received a standing ovation? People know that within the black community (or at least portions of it) crime is legitimized and often applauded. It is unfair that your black friends are pulled over without cause, but at least half of that blame lies within the black community that enthusiastically applaudes the return of a corrupt black politician.

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: pokermush]
    #6448447 - 01/11/07 11:15 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Of course, corrupt white politicians have never had standing ovations by their conservative supporters. That must a black thing.

:rolleyes:

It's not just black politics that are fucked, but all of the American political system. Have you ever read the polls on how many Americans still supported Nixon even after Watergate?


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Ravus]
    #6448503 - 01/11/07 11:35 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

First of all, that's a red herring. We are specifically talking about about why there are more blacks in prison, and I posited that it is at least partly due to the element of black culture in America that doesn't think crime is wrong, and honors a black man who seems to get away with his crime. Your post contributed nothing to the discussion, other than to say "oh yeah, other politicians are corrupt too". OK, yes, other politicians are corrupt too. And when caught, they are dealt with harshly and looked down upon by most of their peers.

Second, Can you give me an example of a non-minority congressman or senator, within the past 10 years, who earned the esteem of his peers specifically for seeming to beat the rap of corruption? My point is it's a badge of honor for Jefferson, when it would be a mark of shame for a conservative white politician.

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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Ravus]
    #6448540 - 01/11/07 11:47 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Have you ever read the polls on how many Americans still supported Nixon even after Watergate?




I'm sure this ignorance in America encourages the Bush entourage.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: pokermush]
    #6448598 - 01/11/07 12:06 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

It is clearly not a red herring, since you said:

Quote:

People know that within the black community (or at least portions of it) crime is legitimized and often applauded




Implying that the black community legitimizes crime in their politicians or other people more than the white community. Crime is legitimized among white businessmen, politicians and citizens everyday.

From what I've read of the Jefferson case, it seems that a lot of the voters don't trust the government or the agents who are trying to convict Jefferson and so deny the allegations are true, in spite of evidence to the contrary. If so, then this would be legitimate distrust of the government, which, after hundreds of years of racism and now even more examples like Hurricane Katrina, would be an entirely different reason for supporting Jefferson than simply because he's corrupt and hasn't been indicted, as you implied.

You have a point in that blacks do distrust the government much more than whites on average, due to past experiences, and so would not respond to allegations of corruption from the government as avidly as the white conservative community. This distrust of the government probably also makes blacks a higher priority for policing in the government's eyes, and makes blacks less likely to respect the laws, but it would still be the system of oppression that instilled this viewpoint into them in the first place.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Ravus]
    #6448641 - 01/11/07 12:25 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

The difference in the Jefferson case is that he was being applauded for beating the system (so far). The people giving him the standing ovation weren't the voters. And the only notable thing about Jefferson is the bribery scandal. So one can easily conclude that the standing ovation was applauding his "accomplishment" of getting caught taking bribes but getting re-elected anyway.

Even though there are corrupt people in every walk of life, and people around them who will look the other way, I don't see any other community that would consider what Jefferson did to be an honorable accomplishment.

I live in Utah. The black population here is very low. I don't know anybody who is racist against them, and all of the black people I know integrate just fine with everyone else. I think the difference is that there isn't a "black community" here to foster the racism and black stereotypes.

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Ravus]
    #6448685 - 01/11/07 12:50 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Of course, corrupt white politicians have never had standing ovations by their conservative supporters. That must a black thing.

:rolleyes:

It's not just black politics that are fucked, but all of the American political system. Have you ever read the polls on how many Americans still supported Nixon even after Watergate?




Do not limit this to politicians.

Look to rap music, I listen to A LOT of it, and enjoy it(some probably didn't see that coming) and I can tell you first hand, there is a definite romanticizing of the "street life" which includes braking many serious laws. It is often boastful even.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6448705 - 01/11/07 01:02 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

How about, we ship them back to Africa.This would fix there being to many blacks in prisons.

Edited by Brainiac (01/11/07 01:03 PM)

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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Brainiac]
    #6448879 - 01/11/07 01:52 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

The US would still probably have the highest prisoner rate in the world. The government needs a scapegoat, so likely white drug users would just receive heavier sentences so that Christians can feel good about themselves, putting away those demonic marijuana smokers, cocaine users and mushroom eaters. If cops didn't have black people to focus most of their attention on, what would happen to the rest of us? We'd be getting pulled over much more often.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.

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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Ravus]
    #6448978 - 01/11/07 02:11 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

:glittershitz:

OK I get it.

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OfflineArcofaJourney
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: pokermush]
    #6449048 - 01/11/07 02:25 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

i agree Ravus. i think our efforts are a waste of time.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Brainiac]
    #6450194 - 01/11/07 07:41 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Brainiac said:
How about, we ship them back to Africa.This would fix there being to many blacks in prisons.




:rolleyes:

Considering they're Americans, not Africans, your point is moot


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineEconomist
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6451312 - 01/12/07 06:18 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
Do not limit this to politicians.

Look to rap music, I listen to A LOT of it, and enjoy it(some probably didn't see that coming) and I can tell you first hand, there is a definite romanticizing of the "street life" which includes braking many serious laws. It is often boastful even.



By this same logic, Country Music, enjoyed mostly by white people, "romanticizes" drinking and driving, drinking while driving, violence as a solution to lovers' quarrels, and assault as an acceptable method of dispute resolution.

Yet we don't see skyrocketing white incarceration among country music listeners for any of those crimes, most of which carry 3 to 5 year prison terms.

I'm sorry but I just don't buy the rap-music argument.

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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Economist]
    #6451604 - 01/12/07 09:11 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

There is a huge, huge, huge difference between drinking and driving, and shooting someone for "dissing you", or for wearing the wrong colour.

I would also like to hear the number of references to drinking and driving in country music, compared to violence in rap. Hell, I bet there are more references to drinking and driving in rap, than country music, I can think of a few off the top of my head.

Rap is all I have listened to for the past 10 years, and while younger I did some pretty fucked up shit, which I would definitely associate with the music I listened to. Of course in the end, I am the one who made the final decision, and I take responsibility/


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:

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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Economist]
    #6452032 - 01/12/07 12:17 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
By this same logic, Country Music, enjoyed mostly by white people, "romanticizes" drinking and driving, drinking while driving, violence as a solution to lovers' quarrels, and assault as an acceptable method of dispute resolution.

Yet we don't see skyrocketing white incarceration among country music listeners for any of those crimes, most of which carry 3 to 5 year prison terms.

I'm sorry but I just don't buy the rap-music argument.



That's actually a really good example.

20 or 30 years ago, drunk driving didn't carry much of a stigma. In fact, it was funny "Oh man you should have seen me last night! I was so shit faced I was all over the road!". Ha ha ha ha. It was used by comedians and in movies, and most people didn't frown upon it. One example that comes to mind is "It's a wonderful life" where he is drunk and crashes his car into a tree.

Fast forward to today, and almost everybody looks down upon drunk driving. Even in the most tolerant of circles, it's not acceptable. Even though it might be in the music and movies, people don't think its OK to do. And a congressman convicted of drunk driving, then winning his re-election, isn't getting any standing ovation.

Each of the (bad) things you mention have varying degrees of acceptability among social circles. Even though some music might glamorize domestic violence, there is a strongly negative stigma attached to a wife-beater.

I'm not a country fan, but my wife listens to it and what I do hear is usually introspective and somewhat depressing. If there is a reference to drunk driving or a guy hitting his wife, isn't it usually "boy did I fuck up, I'm a real ass"?

A agree, though, that bad themes in music don't necessarily have a strong negative influence over its listeners. But it might reflect the views or experiences of its listeners.

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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: pokermush]
    #6452192 - 01/12/07 01:22 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Take a look around. The music in certain time periods has changed youth. However, it's not always in a bad way, look at the love generation. The youth started this, and the music followed, only generating more support, and everyone started wearing colorful shit, threw away homophobia, started fucking much more often, etc.


I completely agree that rap has made the black population worse off. A huge amount of this music encourages drugs that over long periods of time can make you heartless and angry. I've yet to hear a single rap song by any black person singing about the benefits of sticking to acid and mushrooms and making peace with everyone you meet.

And it does quite the opposite of the love generation, it encourages violence and murder over stupid petty crap. It encourages having a giant ego so big that anyone else in the room will suffocate in its monumental shittyness.

Of course black people started rap, but rap spread it to those that were better off, glorifying the lifestyle, influencing those that are very influential.


--------------------
I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

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OfflineArcofaJourney
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: beatnicknick]
    #6452439 - 01/12/07 02:42 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

This is ridiculous, you guys keep changing the frame of the argument to fit your viewpoint.

The whole country vs. rap example is bogus.

Just think about the demographics of your typical listener of each style and link it to which socio-economic bracket MOST of the fans fall into. What kinds of schools and families do these people generally come from? Jail time correlates with the latter economics & education) more than the former (music preference).

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