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OfflineLightningfractal
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Too many blacks in prison?
    #6442674 - 01/09/07 06:27 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I'd like to get your points of view first.
Why are the (U.S.) state prisons like 90% black? Do you blame...
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (01/09/07 06:26 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6442904 - 01/09/07 07:37 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

How many are in prison because they were found guilty of an "consensual" crime?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6442925 - 01/09/07 07:44 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I believe the figure is closer to 60%, but in any case, I think the answer is complex. I don't want to excuse any violent offenders for their actions, but we must remember that much of the prison population is comprised of nonviolent drug offenders, and blacks comprise a majority of those offenders as well. So I would put a good deal of blame on the Drug War, and note some of the unjust discrepancies in the law, particularly the discrepancy in sentencing between cocaine and crack. I also think that the high percentage of them in prison becomes a self-perpetuating cycle, as incarceration has become a sort of rite of passage for people living in the ghetto. So to that extent, I think it's partly cultural. So on one level, the individuals have no one but themselves to blame. But on another level, the system creates those kinds of individuals. So my recommendation is that we end the Drug War and do what we can to alleviate poverty.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6442935 - 01/09/07 07:48 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

I blame the system.

There are so many actual criminals that you can fill the jails with just whites several times over, so it's selective law enforcement.


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Invisiblebuckwheat
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6442969 - 01/09/07 07:58 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

All you have to do is look at other countries where black people don't act like this to get an answer.Like say the Dominican Republic which was known for this.Now that drugs are appearing there the crime rate is rising.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: gregorio]
    #6442971 - 01/09/07 07:58 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

gregorio said:
How many are in prison because they were found guilty of an "consensual" crime?




It depends on how far you go to define "consensual". People that are in there for drug charges alone probably only comprise about 10%. The rest have drugs and robbery, drugs and murder, drugs and carjacking, drugs and gun possession. etc. etc. etc.

Of course, if drugs were legal they wouldn't have guns and steal things, but the question is not about drugs or consensual crime, it's about why is there a huge discrepancy in the color of the prison population.

What is the main variable which produces this phenomenon?

White people do drugs too.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Asante]
    #6442978 - 01/09/07 08:00 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
I blame the system.

There are so many actual criminals that you can fill the jails with just whites several times over, so it's selective law enforcement.




Why do blacks continue to make themselves so easy to select?


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Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6442985 - 01/09/07 08:03 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:


What is the main variable which produces this phenomenon?

White people do drugs too.




White people have better lawyers?

I will say this though---I do not think that this is proof of an inherently racist justice system or society.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: gregorio]
    #6443066 - 01/09/07 08:20 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Oh they're being opressed. But I believe that it is their responsibility as human beings to resist.

Their style of resistance so far has produced dismal results at best, and yet they don't ever seem to try to improve upon their game.

That's why it's hard for an intelligent man to pity their plight.

I blame the black man for the black man's problems.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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OfflineArcofaJourney
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6443138 - 01/09/07 08:35 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
I blame the system.

There are so many actual criminals that you can fill the jails with just whites several times over, so it's selective law enforcement.




Why do blacks continue to make themselves so easy to select?




Because they happen to be where the cops are.

One of my best friends is black and he gets stopped and pulled over for the stupidest reasons. He was walking to the record store about a month ago through a white neighborhood and got put in the back of a police car and interrogated.

You have no idea what its like to be black so i don't think you should be making ignorant comments like asking why they make themselves easy to select. Anyone that knowingly commits a violent act should be in trouble, but if you don't realize that profiling is real your living in a dream world.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6443143 - 01/09/07 08:36 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

All of the above


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InvisibleBrainiac
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Redstorm]
    #6443216 - 01/09/07 08:47 PM (17 years, 22 days ago)

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time :rolleyes:


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Edited by Brainiac (01/09/07 09:13 PM)


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #6443486 - 01/09/07 09:53 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

You have no idea what its like to be black so i don't think you should be making ignorant comments like asking why they make themselves easy to select.




How many times have you seen blacks selling drugs to strangers on shady street corners? How many white people do you know that stand around selling drugs to unknowns? Do they think the cops aren't going to round 'em up eventually? They make it super easy for the police to incarcerate them because as a whole they're being dumber than onions and playing right into the hands of their oppressors.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate them myself, I'm just critiquing their game and I'm calling Darwinism on them.

Quote:

if you don't realize that profiling is real your living in a dream world.




Again I know they're opressed, but I'm amazed in how they participate in their own destruction.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all



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OfflineLightningfractal
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Registered: 06/24/03
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6443703 - 01/09/07 11:02 PM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Yeah, it's rather hard to argue with an accurate assessment..

Anyone have any ideas why blacks seem to lack the ability to learn how to avoid a pitfall even when he sees countless other blacks enter the pitfall before him?

They just keep right on going into prison like sheep while white people take their business indoors, and I can't figure out why that is.

It's perplexing.


--------------------
Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this:

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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6443865 - 01/10/07 12:02 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Perhaps if this country were founded by black peoples that had white slaves for a time things would be different.
I really doubt it though.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6443914 - 01/10/07 12:33 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/dec95sklar.htm

Quote:

Three out of four drug users are White (non-Latino), but Blacks are much more likely to be arrested for drug offenses and receive longer sentences. As the Sentencing Project reports, Blacks constitute 13 percent of all past-month drug users, but 35 percent of arrests for drug possession, 55 percent of convictions, and 74 percent of prison sentences. Almost 90 percent of people sentenced to state prison for drug possession in 1992 were Black and Latino.




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OfflineArcofaJourney
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Annapurna1]
    #6444159 - 01/10/07 03:55 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

Ridiculous...of course i've seen whites on street corners dealing drugs.

The desperate do desperate things.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6444361 - 01/10/07 07:23 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

I couldn't reply to this poll because I believe it's a combination of the African American population itself and the System.

I don't see that poverty plays a roll in it, as several studies have shown that crime and economic performance aren't actually very stongly linked (It surprised me when I learned it too). For quick reference consider this: The greatest upswing in the "crack epidemic" actually occured during the economic boom of the 1980s. Even when more and more jobs were available, more and more gangs and individuals were going to jail for crack-related activities.

For further evidence that poverty doesn't play a roll we can look at the trends in incarceration of other impoverished populations. The incarceration rate for Hispanics, while still much higher than whites, is almost 1/3 of the incarceration rate of blacks. (source: http://www.ojp.usdoj(dot)gov/bjs/prisons.htm )

Clearly there is a problem with "the system". This is hard to quantify, but I think the numbers are extreme enough to suggest that "something" is wrong. As for what that "something" is, it's hard to say. Professor Levitt, the author of Freakonomics suggests in his writings that the African American community is, for whatever reason, more likely to engage in crack use than other populations, including hispanics. As a result the crack vs powder cocaine sentencing could play a huge roll in the discrepancy. Of course, Levitt also admits that much of the data comes from police sources, meaning that an extremely biased police force (not that there's direct proof of that either) could be skewing all of the data.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe Levitt (he's one of my favorite academics) so I'd support changing the powder vs. crack laws. If nothing else it could help us learn very quickly how biased the police force actually is.

I also believe that the African American community itself is to blame. Not the individuals, mind you, but the unfortunate self-described "leaders" of the community itself. It's pretty clear by now that individuals such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, while well intentioned (the latter more so than the former), don't actually have an approach to improving the situation that works. Indeed, their approach to the so-called "hip-hop" culture seems to prove this, as they were out of touch both during and after its emergence.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #6444420 - 01/10/07 07:49 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

I bet your friend looked like he was up to something. By that I don't mean he looked black, though I'm sure that didn't help, but he knew he was a black man in a white neighborhood, and probably was looking around nervously.

Cops pick up on shit like that. They will actually try to make people flinch sometimes to see if they are nervous, and if you're nervous, then they think you must be up to something.

The one time I got busted I had a bag of weed on me and a few pipes (I was really sloppy, I must have just forgot marijuana was illegal or something. Anyway, I pull out onto the main road, and I see a cop just sitting there, waiting.

Here's where I made my first mistake. The instant I saw him I immediately made an "uh-oh" face, and started driving away from him nervously.

I might as well have just pulled my sack out of my pants and waved it at him, lol.



My marijuana sack, that is. Either one would have had the same effect, really.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: Too many blacks in prison? [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #6444478 - 01/10/07 08:15 AM (17 years, 21 days ago)

I live just outside of Toronto, where the murder rate is going through the roof. 90%+ of the convicted/suspect are black, as well as the victims. They are not being framed, and they are not being forced to shoot anyone imo.

While some of them have been dealt a shitty hand, they are doing fuck all to get out of it in a legit way. I was dealt a shitty hand, so did I start selling coke/crack and killing people? No, I shut up and went to my shitty job, and hoped for something better, which did finally come along. Of course, I am white, so I was born into privilege.  :rolleyes:

I voted for the black, because if I were to commit a crime, and be tossed in jail, it would be nobody's fault but MY OWN.


--------------------
Capliberty:

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Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

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