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Banez
Stranger


Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 15,181
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: Banez]
#6433817 - 01/07/07 07:07 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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not to mention that we are currently arming over 250,000 Iraqi soliders with the same equipment that our military is using.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: Banez]
#6436114 - 01/07/07 07:50 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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> Opium cultivation continued to thrive during most of the Taliban period, despite attempts to ban it.
They attempted to eradicate it, but it's hard to do. There really isn't much you can do with limited manpower.
> "On July 27, 2000, the Taliban again issued a decree banning opium poppy cultivation. By February 2001, production had been reduced by 98%. [5] Following the fall of the Taliban regime, the areas controlled by the Northern Alliance resumed opium production [6] and by 2005 production was 87% of the world's opium supply.[7]"
Hmmm... Sounds like they were much, much, much more successful than us at eliminating opium. Could have something to do with their hardline tactics.
The rest of the articles are just bullshit propaganda and baseless accusations. Trying to blame the taliban for opium production when, in fact, it is the elimination of the taliban that has increased opium production. That's just plain stupid.
So what they're trying to claim is that an organization of hardline religious fanatics who fervently believe that drug users should be murdered is also secretly supporting it?
So I suppose that some of them are out there killing Poppy farmers while the others are making huge profits from it? Perhaps the Bush administration is projecting it's own traits onto the taliban.
The whole thing is a baseless argument. Despite clear facts to the contrary the administration is again trying to connect the dots where no connection exists. (They wouldn't do that now would they?)
Taliban = evil Drugs = evil Taliban = drugs
It's a clear logical fallacy.
-FF
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: fastfred]
#6436127 - 01/07/07 07:54 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Remember when the government put up those adds trying to convince you that buying weed supported terrorism?
It's just more of the same stupid shit.
Everyone knows that your local "dime bag Dick" isn't getting his weed from terrorists, nor giving them his profits.
Someone needs to put together a movie of all the bullshit lies that the gov has tried to pass off on people to further the drug war. It would be so ridiculous and stir up such anger that we'd have to end the drug war.
-FF
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: fastfred]
#6438262 - 01/08/07 01:27 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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If it's not the Taliban cultivating and exporting the poppies over there in Afghanistan then who is it exactly?
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#6438428 - 01/08/07 02:16 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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The cultivation of poppies in Afghanistan is done by poor farmers. About 2 million poor farmers. Without the small income derived from growing poppies these people have virtually no way of supporting their families. The US and the Afghan government have not followed through on alternative crops, the infrastructure to get these crops to market, and financial subsidies for not growing poppies.
The Taliban backlash referred to in this story is that these 2 million people, if their crops are destroyed, will turn their support over to the Taliban.
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fastfred
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: veggie]
#6438472 - 01/08/07 02:40 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
veggie said: The Taliban backlash referred to in this story is that these 2 million people, if their crops are destroyed, will turn their support over to the Taliban.
Exactly! But it makes for a far less "pro US / pro war on terror" story.
Remember kiddies... drugs = evil Taliban = evil Taliban = drugs
-FF
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ExplosiveMango
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: fastfred]
#6439617 - 01/08/07 08:32 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said: You guys really just don't understand do you?
THESE GUYS ARE RELIGIOUS FANATICS! There is no wish-wash bullshit with them. They will put a blade to your throat and ask you if you accept Allah as the one true god and if you say no you are an "infidel" they think they have the right to kill you on the spot.
They don't believe in alcohol or drugs and if you are caught with anything to do with them Muslim law says they can kill you on the spot. That's how it is over there. If they are in control of your area you better obey ALL Muslim law.
You better wear your veil or head deal for Christ's sakes! They can stone you to death for that! You think there is any room for moral ambiguity with them then you are stupid.
Here's a funny one... Men are required to have a beard over there. If you get caught without a "fist full" of beard they can stone you to death for that too. What the fuck do you think would happen if they catch you drunk or high?
You guys just really don't have an understanding of their culture. That's the main reason we're stuck in such a shit storm of stupidity right now.
-FF
It would seem FastFred is another who knows more about Islam than the FBI chief of counter-terrorism.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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ExplosiveMango
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
#6439631 - 01/08/07 08:36 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mattzdope said: If it's not the Taliban cultivating and exporting the poppies over there in Afghanistan then who is it exactly?
Everyone else!
They're worth a fucking fortune compared to anything else they can produce in that war-torn wasteland.
-------------------- Know your self. Know your substance. Know your source. The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: ExplosiveMango]
#6440533 - 01/09/07 01:36 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ExplosiveMango said:
Quote:
fastfred said: You guys really just don't understand do you?
THESE GUYS ARE RELIGIOUS FANATICS! There is no wish-wash bullshit with them. They will put a blade to your throat and ask you if you accept Allah as the one true god and if you say no you are an "infidel" they think they have the right to kill you on the spot.
They don't believe in alcohol or drugs and if you are caught with anything to do with them Muslim law says they can kill you on the spot. That's how it is over there. If they are in control of your area you better obey ALL Muslim law.
You better wear your veil or head deal for Christ's sakes! They can stone you to death for that! You think there is any room for moral ambiguity with them then you are stupid.
Here's a funny one... Men are required to have a beard over there. If you get caught without a "fist full" of beard they can stone you to death for that too. What the fuck do you think would happen if they catch you drunk or high?
You guys just really don't have an understanding of their culture. That's the main reason we're stuck in such a shit storm of stupidity right now.
-FF
It would seem FastFred is another who knows more about Islam than the FBI chief of counter-terrorism.
That paragraph is the biggest contrived naive shit ive ever seen anyone write on this website.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#6440586 - 01/09/07 02:29 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Not too surprising that someone with a confederate flag as his sig would be ignorant of reality...
I'm surprised that more people aren't even capable of watching the news and then remembering it long enough to realize when they're being fed completely illogical and contradictory bullshit a month later.
-FF
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The_Red_Crayon
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: fastfred]
#6440612 - 01/09/07 02:51 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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The only "realization" you had is a series of misconceptions and blanket statements about the Taliban. When other posters reminded you that the Taliban had been protecting the opium industry for a cut of profits you jump to this naive view that the Taliban would execute anyone for not having a beard or drinking alcohol. A complete strawman to the original statement.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9b7f32cb20 heres a video of some taliban, see how many of them have beards.
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You guys just really don't have an understanding of their culture. That's the main reason we're stuck in such a shit storm of stupidity right now.
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You better wear your veil or head deal for Christ's sakes! They can stone you to death for that! You think there is any room for moral ambiguity with them then you are stupid.
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Not too surprising that someone with a confederate flag as his sig would be ignorant of reality...
I'm surprised that more people aren't even capable of watching the news and then remembering it long enough to realize when they're being fed completely illogical and contradictory bullshit a month later.
Get off your crucifix Mr. Martyr. Dont automatically assume people on here are ignorant, and quit talking shit about the stars and bars like you know a damn thing anyhow.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: veggie]
#6441018 - 01/09/07 09:01 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
veggie said: The cultivation of poppies in Afghanistan is done by poor farmers. About 2 million poor farmers. Without the small income derived from growing poppies these people have virtually no way of supporting their families. The US and the Afghan government have not followed through on alternative crops, the infrastructure to get these crops to market, and financial subsidies for not growing poppies.
Cultivation of poppies is performed by the poor farmers... but who is paying them for their harvest and distributing it?
Just read in the newspaper the other day about Taliban's profit from poppies...
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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schmutzen
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: fireworks_god]
#6441867 - 01/09/07 01:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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1. Collect opium 2. ??? 3. Profits
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"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper. Go to the country, build you a home."
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fastfred
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#6442211 - 01/09/07 04:11 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The_Redneck_Crayon said: The only "realization" you had is a series of misconceptions and blanket statements about the Taliban. When other posters reminded you that the Taliban had been protecting the opium industry for a cut of profits you jump to this naive view that the Taliban would execute anyone for not having a beard or drinking alcohol. A complete strawman to the original statement.
Why are you arguing something you obviously know nothing about? *I* don't even know much about the Taliban, but I am capable of remembering a few news and TV tidbits for more than a few months at a time. Way back around 9/11 and the year or so that followed I saw some interesting tidbits on the Taliban and muslim culture. I thought that the beard rule was pretty funny, so I looked it up to see what the deal was. What if you can't grow a beard etc.
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In all schools of Islamic Law, it is considered wajib (mandatory) for a Muslim male to grow a beard. It is also wajib to let the beard grow a fist length. It is prohibited to cut or shave the beard. He who does so is a fasiq (sinner) and to shorten it less than a fist length is makrooh tahrimi (near haram). This is the view of the majority of scholars. (see Wujoob I'efaaul-lihyah of Shaykhul Hadith, Ml. Muhammad Zakariyyah and the footnotes of ex-grand Mufti of Saudia - Shaykh ibn Baaz). The opinions of the fours schools are as follows.
Hanafia: Allaamah ibnul Humaam (RA) has mentioned that nobody has permitted the trimming of the beard lesser than a fist length. (Fathul Qadeer; Shaami; Fataawa Mahmoodiyyah vol.5 pgs.93, 105, 108)
Shafi'eah: Allaamah Nawawi (RA) states, 'The correct view (according to the Shafi'ee Madhab) is to leave the beard to grow and it is makrooh to trim the beard whatsoever.' (al-Majmoo vol.1 pg.290; also see Sharh Saheeh Muslim vol.2 pg.143)
Allaamah al-Iraaqi (RA) states in his book entitled, 'Tarhu Tathreeb' (vol.2 pg.8): '. that the best is to leave the beard totally and not to cut anything from it at all, and this is the view of Imam al-Shafi'ee and his students.'
There are quotations from two great scholars of the Shaafi'ee Madhab that do not permit the trimming of the beard at all, not even beyond one fist.
Malikiah: Imam Abul-Waleed al-Baji al-Maliki (RA) states: It has been narrated from Imam Malik (RA) that he permitted the slight trimming of those hair that are overgrown and are outside the general growth of the rest of the hair, and that Imam Malik (RA) was asked about a beard that had grown extremely long, he replied that it should be trimmed a bit.' --------------------------------------------------------
Nobody seems to be grasping that these guys are truly relegious fanatics and that they derive their power from Islamic law. That is their only real source of authority. It's why everyone shuts up and obeys them. They don't just pick and choose what to follow depending on what month it is.
Islamic law and muslims in general have always been against drugs and alcohol. And when they say something is "wajib" then you better not do it because the hardliners take that to mean that they can kill anyone they catch breaking the law.
I've watched video of a wife pleading outside a jail for hours trying to get her husband, who was accused of selling alcohol, out. He hadn't sold any alcohol, they had just grabbed him from the market for apparently no reason. That's the kind of shit they do over there.
And Redneck_Crayon, the point you were trying to accuse me of would be a red herring, not a straw man. But you wouldn't really understand the difference now would you.
-FF
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The_Red_Crayon
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Re: Eradication of poppies 'will spark retribution' [Re: fastfred]
#6442385 - 01/09/07 05:10 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well *I* have been following militant Islam for a quite a year myself. Check out my posts in P&AL if you dont believe me.
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Way back around 9/11 and the year or so that followed I saw some interesting tidbits on the Taliban and muslim culture. I thought that the beard rule was pretty funny, so I looked it up to see what the deal was. What if you can't grow a beard etc.
Pre and post 9/11 are two different things, pre-9/11 i could see how beard laws are enforced by the Taliban, except now during a state of war, they need to make as much friends as possible. The taliban = Pashtun tribesmen; Afghan government- Tajiki and Uzbeki.This means protecting the drug trade in assurance of profits.
Zawahiri has also urged followers in America to;
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Followers are allowed to shave their beards, drink alcohol, visit topless bars and commit crimes against Westerners--all under the cloak of subterfuge.
That concept is called taquya, which means to protect oneself by burrowing underground. "It means to make your appearance hide your inner reality
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Nobody seems to be grasping that these guys are truly relegious fanatics and that they derive their power from Islamic law. That is their only real source of authority. It's why everyone shuts up and obeys them. They don't just pick and choose what to follow depending on what month it is.
Islamic law and muslims in general have always been against drugs and alcohol. And when they say something is "wajib" then you better not do it because the hardliners take that to mean that they can kill anyone they catch breaking the law.
I've watched video of a wife pleading outside a jail for hours trying to get her husband, who was accused of selling alcohol, out. He hadn't sold any alcohol, they had just grabbed him from the market for apparently no reason. That's the kind of shit they do over there.
Im not argueing whether how the Muslims or the Taliban act under Sharia, however i dont think your gonna get a western style in that democracy in that region anyhow.
Im gonna reiterate again. The best way to raise money to fight a war is the drug trade. It doesnt matter if the Pashtun are wahhabists or Salafists or Communists. If your waging a war against a advanced conventional military and you need weapons, theirs plenty of opium worth a lot of money, and farmers are willing to grow it with protection from Taliban. Come on Fred it doesnt take a genius to figure this one out.
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And Redneck_Crayon, the point you were trying to accuse me of would be a red herring, not a straw man. But you wouldn't really understand the difference now would you.
أنا أصدق خطأك.
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