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Offlinejccc
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Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE
    #6438705 - 01/08/07 04:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Is it possible to extract the active chemicals in mushrooms with and anti-freeze..the reason i thought this is because it contains mostly metholal..And what about acetone for extraction??

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InvisibleSaturnGlass
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: jccc]
    #6438786 - 01/08/07 05:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

why not somethin just a tad safer, like everclear?

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Offlinejccc
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: SaturnGlass]
    #6439464 - 01/08/07 08:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

all there is aroud here....80 proof vodka!!

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Invisibletrauma47645
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: jccc]
    #6439528 - 01/08/07 08:15 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

unn anti freeze is mostly di-ethylene glycol which is toxic

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Offlinejccc
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: trauma47645]
    #6439536 - 01/08/07 08:16 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

true menthal is in the mindshield protecter version more so...what about 80 proof vodka..is it a go for extration

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Invisibletrauma47645
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: jccc]
    #6439557 - 01/08/07 08:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

just go to where it is legal.. you can order it for making perfumes and herbal extractions

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: trauma47645]
    #6449149 - 01/11/07 02:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

the gas line anti freeze in the yellow bottle is just methanol. I forgot the brand name though but I have used it for Salvia many times. I evapped some on glass first and it left no residue.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: cpw1971]
    #6451059 - 01/12/07 02:28 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

You are referring to yellow "heet", which is methanol. Red "heet" is isopropyl. Antifreeze is ethylene glycol. You don't want to use anti-freeze because #1 it wouldn't extract the actives and #2 it's highly poisonous.

If you don't value your kidneys then go ahead and try using it, otherwise stick to methanol, ethanol, or acetic acid extractions.


-FF

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Offlinejccc
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: fastfred]
    #6457907 - 01/14/07 08:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

acitic acid such as straight lemon jucie and that soryt of stuff will work

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Offlinefunkyjunky
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: jccc]
    #6457950 - 01/14/07 09:01 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

The already listed extraction methods work well enough, search the threads here.  And please do not attempt an extraction until you have some idea of what you are doing.
:mushroom2: :mushroom2:

*And acetone (the only chemical you spelled correctly) won't extract the magic, but will extract some other compounds; it's useful in sequence with another solvent.


--------------------
Long Live the Shroomery
Peace

Edited by funkyjunky (01/14/07 09:09 AM)

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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: funkyjunky]
    #6465001 - 01/16/07 07:08 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Read this all the way through. It gives many different Psilocybin and psilocin extraction TEks.
http://www.fanaticus.com/mycoalki.htm

You can actually bring psilocybin into crystal form, and then cut with high grade alcohol and dropped like acid.

-PS don't use anti-freez. It kills cat's that enjoy it's sweet taste, and i don't know why it would effect you any different.

100% ethenol is best IMO. You can obtain it from gov. labratories, however you must go in with a legitimate reason for needing this, try extraction of essential oils. However if you exceed the unmentioned dollar amount, they will take your money, make you fill out a form, and if you refuse to fill it out, they keep your money and say "Good Bye!"

If you fill out the paperwork... then your info is submitted to the DEA and you may be investigated, or you may not.

Here in California, i believe the set dollar amount for most solvents, is $108


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"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."

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Offlinehjalmar
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6480887 - 01/20/07 08:23 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

If you open the cap of a bottle of absolute ethanol, it isn't absolute anymore. It absorbs water from the air *really* fast.

You can dry the alcohols using molecular sieves: 3A for methanol and 4A for ethanol and IPA. They are not expensive nor are they watched.

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Offlinehjalmar
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: hjalmar]
    #6480936 - 01/20/07 08:38 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


If you fill out the paperwork... then your info is submitted to the DEA and you may be investigated, or you may not.




I don't think the US is that far off, that they would bust your door for a bottle of absolute alcohol?

Esp. with the meth cooks using household products as solvents and all...

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Offlinejccc
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: hjalmar]
    #6482238 - 01/21/07 12:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

what types of stores carry ethanol?

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Offlinehjalmar
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: jccc]
    #6482924 - 01/21/07 03:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Hardware stores? I don't know about the US.

In Europe you can buy ethanol denatured with 5% ether cheap at the pharmacy.

In France you can even buy drinkable 96% ethanol there for only 10 euros per liter.

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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: hjalmar]
    #6484717 - 01/22/07 05:41 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, same in the states.

Sold as Denatured Alcohol. It is ethanol with 5%-10% methanol(which makes it un-drinkable)


--------------------
--------------------------------

" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: hjalmar]
    #6486912 - 01/22/07 06:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hjalmar said:
Quote:


If you fill out the paperwork... then your info is submitted to the DEA and you may be investigated, or you may not.




I don't think the US is that far off, that they would bust your door for a bottle of absolute alcohol?

Esp. with the meth cooks using household products as solvents and all...




All i said was "they might investigate, they might not"

I said absolutely nothing about doors being busted down. You may be put on a list of someone who is potentially manufacturing illegal substances, and you may be looked at closer then those who are not on the list.

No case can be made on suspicion alone. However if i went to this GOV. Lab Supplier and asked them for 50gals of petroleum ether, they would probably have allot of questions to ask me. This doesn't necessarily mean my door will get busted down, however it does raise suspicion.

Also i am not talking about dirty meth. Ethanol, methanol, and ether are all used for many different types of alkaloid extractions, legal and illegal. They are used for other legitimate experiments as well. You must be able to present yourself to the people selling you thees chemicals in a manner that makes them believe you are not using this chemical to break the law. I could be wrong, but i believe they have the right to refuse sales to any "suspicious characters".


--------------------
----------------
"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."

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Offlinehjalmar
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6489660 - 01/23/07 02:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

True, but of course one doesn't go to a chemical supplier if one has a head full of dreadlocks, is tattoed and/or pierced all over or any other non-straight looks.:crazy:

I visit my supplier in my spotless sunday suit :cool:, never had any frowning. They do however talk about "weird looking people" trying to order chemicals or solvents, and that they are required to report anything suspicious. If I buy 5L of dichloromethane, or the weird looking guy buys it, it's a great difference.

In my experience if one looks like a nice straight citizen, and most important know a legitimate use for the chemical one wants to buy (and for the ones you named -common solvents- there are a lot) there are no problems even if paperwork is required. After all, they are even unable to watch you as you will disappear into thousands of similar acquisition paperworks.

Remember that many craftsmen, artists, model builders etc... need these solvents too. Of course most of them don't want to buy 50 gallons at a time. It is much less suspicious to buy small amounts regularly.

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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: hjalmar]
    #6491697 - 01/24/07 04:53 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

hjalmar said:

In my experience if one looks like a nice straight citizen, and most important know a legitimate use for the chemical one wants to buy (and for the ones you named -common solvents- there are a lot) there are no problems even if paperwork is required....


It is much less suspicious to buy small amounts regularly.




I agree with all of your points. Appearance is definatly a factor. Knowledge is just as, if not more important. If my friend wasn't a 35year old clean cut, straight looking fellow who majored in chemistry and biology, i doubt he would have such a good chance at obtaining thees chemicals from a GOV lab.

Paperwork will most likely be filed and hidden away with thousands of others.

However, if you are doing constant manufacturing for sales and are purchasing a 5 liter bottle of what you need on a daily basis, for a month straight, then i believe an investigation maybe done, or a background check at the very least. I say this because they see the paperwork coming back up everyday. I am sure the will start to be suspicious as well, maybe deny you sales even.

If you have a legitimate excuse and can explain you manufacturing some other substance, such as perfumes and essential oils... then they may want to see some of your supposed final product, i would imagine. Possibly even a business license. They probably would want to know why you don't obtain a license to buy them in bulk rather then coming back day after day.

I am not sure, but i would imagine a license would be necessary for purchasing hundreds of gallons of solvents at a time.


--------------------
----------------
"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."

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Offlinehjalmar
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6493096 - 01/24/07 03:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

I would think so too. In the EU this is the case, one needs to prove to have the adequate storing facilities for large amounts of hazardous materials.

Another point we didn't discuss is waste disposal. For large amounts this will get very problematic.

I think the best option for someone who wants to produce constantly on a daily basis is to recuperate his solvents and invest in a Rotovap apparatus.

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OfflineMindRyd
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: hjalmar]
    #6493622 - 01/24/07 06:44 PM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Everclear is 95% ethanol and is sold in most states in the U.S.

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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: MindRyd]
    #6494932 - 01/25/07 03:56 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I think the best option for someone who wants to produce constantly on a daily basis is to recuperate his solvents and invest in a Rotovap apparatus.




Do you mean by boiling your ether extracts while re-condensing the boiled vapors into a glass collection container. When i did this we used a vacuum pump to lower the atmospheric pressure to make the ether boil faster in the reactor and at a lower temperature, making it safer because it boils further away from its flash point. It was very time consuming, but we recycled i would say almost 70% of the ether back to be reused over and over again. Making it less expensive and less suspicious then purchasing more petroleum ether.


EDIT> I am about to do a THC extract with my buddy. He has obtained (i believe its called) protuelene sulfonic acid, and has a TEK that is supposed to result in 90% THC. He says it is less time consuming but similar to the isomerisation TEK we tried last time.

I imagine that psilocybin/psilocin extracts may be done in a similar fashion, but i have not read this book all the way through yet, or compared the differences and similarities between mushrooms and marijuana, and what chemicals are soluble with protuelene sulfonic acid.

THE BOOK!!
---------
Marijuana Chemistry
Michael Starks


--------------------
----------------
"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."

Edited by pscyanescens (01/25/07 04:05 AM)

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Offlinehjalmar
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6522414 - 02/02/07 02:34 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)



The pear-shaped distilling flask which is spinned around its axis by the motor provides a very high surface area, so large amounts of solvent can be removed in a very short amount of time.

These thing go 1000-1500$ on lab auction site, but these tend to be generally overpriced. I've seen second hand units go for 100 euros in Europe a couple of years ago, they came from a company's overstock.

Distilling ether using only vacuum goes fast, but you'll need a strong and steady cooling. Dry ice would probably be best?


Regarding the CBD/THC isomerization using para-toluenesulfonic acid (= p-tosic acid), I remember seeing the paper.

p-tosic acid is very soluble in water and soluble in alcohol and ether. You'll have to perform the isomerization in alcohol, problem is separating the p-tosic acid from the product. I would propose evaporating 3/4 the amount of alcohol, flood with water and extract with ether or any other organic solvent.

The other method I remember was using HCl as the proton source. The yield were lower, but the workup is easier as it is volatile.

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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: hjalmar]
    #6522619 - 02/02/07 06:12 AM (17 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you very much for the input. I will soon be performing my extraction. I know little of this process, but you just gave me a little better insight on the steps involved. I will also email your recommendations to my teacher to make sure we are going about it in the most safe and efficient way possible.


--------------------
----------------
"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."

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InvisibleHeruuka
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: jccc]
    #6770783 - 04/10/07 03:19 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

phew... for i second i thought he meant ANTIFREEZE- metabolic acidosis anyone? no thanks

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Offlineirishshroomage
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: Heruuka]
    #6770907 - 04/10/07 03:44 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

there are more nasty things in over the countor methelated spirits than just eg benzine and naftol try distilling it first
if you have the glassware or just use isopropale alcole 5 quid a bottel in your cemmist say you nead it for cleaning computers and stress that it must be resedue free

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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: irishshroomage]
    #6773026 - 04/10/07 10:48 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

> there are more nasty things in over the countor methelated spirits than just eg benzine and naftol

The only non-volitile compnent should be petroleum oil, and that should only be in the crappy stuff, also easy to detect. Most denatured alcolhol in the US is just plain 90% ethanol and 10% methanol.

-FF

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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: fastfred]
    #6774523 - 04/11/07 10:43 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

For the most part, you can get everclear at most military bases, even in places where it is illegal to buy it at regular liquor stores. So find a friend who is a military brat, then find a base with a decent "Class 6" (military designation for liquor store)

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OfflineJohn0809
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #6782149 - 04/13/07 07:13 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

lol Just use some alcohol...

Thank God Rhode Island is only 1 min away and they sell Grain Alcohol there..

=)

JS


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Offlinepscyanescens
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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: John0809]
    #6785825 - 04/14/07 03:25 AM (17 years, 1 month ago)

IF not that, go to your nearest chemical/scientific supply and get some ethanol or methanol, there is numerous legitimate uses for it, and if you know them, perhaps even preform thees legitimate experiments then it makes it easier to obtain with less questions asked.

I have heard that 195 proof everclear was even better to use then 100% methanol or ethanol because psilocybin is somewhat soluble by water and supposedly it helps to some degree to use an aqueous solvent.

Then again i also heard that 100% ethanol is created in a sealed environment because it absorbs water or moisture from the air to stabilize. I have been told it stabilizes at about 95% anyways. My friend says that if you open a full bottle of 100% ethanol and leave it out on the counter it will over flow from the water absorbed from the air.


--------------------
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"With an abundance of Cyanescens... i would never touch another Cubensis again."

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Re: Extraction with ANTI-FREEZE [Re: pscyanescens]
    #6789230 - 04/14/07 11:59 PM (17 years, 1 month ago)

It has been reported in the literature that 70% ethanol (140 proof) is the optimal mixture for extraction. Try some Bacardi 151. It should be great for extraction and flaming shots!

Anyways, let's let this thread die or lock it. There are already other extraction threads going with better info. The title pisses me off every time I see it.


-FF

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