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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: TuneInTurnOn]
    #6439482 -

TuneInTurnOn said:
How much acid/shrooms did you eat man?


I've only tripped on acid 6 times.

I first started psychedelics with mushrooms. Before I started using psychedelics, I became friends with my next door neighbor, I found out he smoked bowls, so we would meet after school everyday and smoke bowls. Eventually he told me he grew mushrooms, and started selling me a dried gram for 3 bucks. I'd buy 20-30 grams the highest I bought was 43 grams. I was tripping out several times a week, though I would only have 1 high dose trip a week. at fist it was fucking beautiful. i learned so much and gained so much insights i thought i found my true love. for a while about everyday I'd chew .8-1.2 grams in my mouth and hold it in my bottom lip till I started getting a buzz and slight visuals. then i'd spit the mushies out and smoke bowls and do whatever. i'd do that everyday and have a high dose trip on the weekends. after awhile it started to really fuck with my mind but I didn't see it fucking with me at first and I didn't see it coming. I didn't need to smoke a bowl, or eat any mushrooms, to be high. I'd be sober, and I'd be tripping out. That's when I knew I should stop eatting mushrooms. It went from beautiful to feeling like in a constant state of about to lose my mind.

No way am I blaming the drug, I was stupid. It was my fault. I didn't have respect for the mushroom in the sense I shouldn't abuse them. But I did have MAJOR respect for what it showed me at first.

Oh, and after this whole ordeal, guess what? I found out my grandmother had a minor case of schizophrenia...... O_O

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: MrBuzin]
    #6439577 -

Shit man, that sucks. I hope things start getting better for you. Could it be possible that you just tripped so much it messed things up for you eh? Im careful around psychedelics, because we know so little about the mind, and no one really knows very much about HPPD, plus you might always find out later that there is a history of mental illness in the family. Hope things get better man, Peace  :sunny:


--------------------
My apartment in New York was on Perry Street, a five minute walk from the White Horse. I often drank there, but I was never accepted because I wore a tie. The real people wanted no part of me.
- The Rum Diary

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: TuneInTurnOn]
    #6440084 -

All those who have shizophrenic relatives........... Realize how close they are, and realize that you likely have a latent trait.

This doesnt have to be a bad thing, or something that makes you stay away from hallucinogens forever. It just gives you a reason to respect those hallucinogens and their absolute power over some people. This is not a hallucination....This is the truth.

I am schizotypal(to the extreem, and with the right diagnosis, I am schizophrenic), and am ready and raring to be a full blown schizo. I have people on both sides of my immediate family that killed themselves because of it(both sides). I have also tripped over 160 times on most substances and know how different I am. I have many smart and close friends who can without a doubt confirm this.

I have dosed more than most of the people on this site(not my exadurating, and I had a different approach no doubt) and also know that I have "schizos" and suicides on both sides of my family due to this so called "malfunction". I would not continue the use of psychedelics though if I felt that it cannot be controlled. I am yet to continue my psychedeic search after 1.8 years of not consuming anything except alcohol because of it. I also have a good friend that lives off of gov. cheese because he has a rather unconrollable version of the same so called "problem". DOnt get me wrong, much like anything else, this can be a very big problem for some people. I dont need meds..... Schizophrenia can be more of a blessing than anythings else. Thats why I feel so taken over, yet tied to hallucinogens, and will be for the rest of my life.

I know why I trip diffently than most people. This is not megalomania, this is just what I have gathered over time.
Most people dont see visuals off of .2 grams but I always did since I was a kid. I have taken some very steep doses for many years and this has only assentuated my schizotypal personality.

Dont be afraid of this tendancy, realize how much schizophrenia has to to do with hallucinogens, and dont be scared though it could fuck you up for the rest of your life if you cant assimilate your experiences to a logical sense of self........

Why do people who take hallusinogens see synchronicity everywhere?
Why do schizophrenics see the same thing.... Why do flat out shizophrenics often claim to see order to their visual palete. "Visuals" that look like colorful spiderwebs(as is often quoted by schizos).......

If you have such a background you are the prime target for unspeakable teachings bestowed upon you. Also know that you are vulnerable to its tastes.

I shit you not........If I didnt make this state of mind my own I would be in very grave trouble. I have control, but my mind wants me to go deeper. That depth scares me.....I have used massive doses for a number of years, and never for fun. All I can say is that I am special. I know that. Every trip is an addition to the last.
Every trip has more ground to cover.

I wonder if anyone realizes what the term ego loss means to a schizophrenic.....


All I can say is god speed. Be very careful if you are already weirder than most...... Being TOTALLY different is a good hint.

Thats why Im at this site. To spread a similare word among the other words I have spoken.

PSychedelics can make you or break you, or some golden mean inbetween if you take them the right way......

Id be diagnosed as schizo in a second if I visited a psychotherapist. It would be cut and dry. Id be one of the far less extreem cases though.

I dont see visuals every day because of schizophrenia. Its because Im met that state of mind half way and dealt with it at a very young age.

This means something to me, and I hope it means something to you all.
A schizophrenic can live in comfort. Can make money.......
They will never be normal though.

Psychedelics can help them come to terms with it, ot they can accentuate the EXTREEMELY negative sides of this so called disorder.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: yageman]
    #6440154 -

Yageman, nice post!  :thumbup:

I believe that schizophrenia possesses the potential of either being a blessing or a curse, just like psychedelic use. Unfortunately, our cultural lifestyle at present has decided to label schizophrenia as a curse, and so a curse it has become. The shaman and the schizophrenic are really one and the same to begin with. Culture determines whether a unique person will either become a schizophrenic or a shaman. Truly, that is what it boils down to. One of our biggest problems in society today is stereotyping. That is how a schizophrenic comes into being. If a person with schizophrenic characteristics was born in the US, he would become labeled as a schizophrenic and will most likely, like the majority of all other schizophrenics, not be able to voluntarily control his gift. Now let's say that the same person was born into a shamanic tribe. He would inevitably become chosen and therefore labeled as a shaman. He would be one of the top leaders of their society and would be able to control his gift and use it to help others.
I am upset of what US culture has done in this regard and many other regards....

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: Feanor]
    #6440589 -

I think there is a point in what you said, longbottom_leaf.

One other big problem in todays society is isolation or the loss of importance of one. People isolate themselves in small boxes(houses), rarely talk to strangers.. this loss of communication or connection to other humans is not as strong if we compare it to a tribe living in a jungle where there is much more love, closer and caring communication amongst the citizens.

It is not a long ago when I saw this interview of a girl who had European parents and she lived her young life in the jungle in somewhere South Pacific. When she came to visit the new civilization she was in shock. For us it was normal to shout out loud in daily communication, in the jungle it meant danger. So when ever someone was shouting, she had an reaction of danger and got confused. She also noticed that this civilization is very efficient in handling physical trauma (ie a small cut in the skin -> E.R) but the emotional trouble is left untreated. This was vice versa amongst their tribe.


--------------------
Amanita forest..| 1st grow: pf-tek & GT | Exceptional P. semilanceata|Salvia vaporisation

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: astraalialma]
    #6440652 -

astraalialma said:
It is not a long ago when I saw this interview of a girl who had European parents and she lived her young life in the jungle in somewhere South Pacific. When she came to visit the new civilization she was in shock. For us it was normal to shout out loud in daily communication, in the jungle it meant danger. So when ever someone was shouting, she had an reaction of danger and got confused. She also noticed that this civilization is very efficient in handling physical trauma (ie a small cut in the skin -> E.R) but the emotional trouble is left untreated. This was vice versa amongst their tribe.


Interesting! Can you provide more info or a link? I want to watch this.


--------------------

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: Quake3]
    #6440702 -

Quake3 said:
Interesting! Can you provide more info or a link? I want to watch this.


Hmm. Sorry, I couldn't find any video-URL's for the interview.
Seems like she has a book written about it.
Sabine Kuegler.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jungle-Child-Sabine-Kuegler/dp/184408261X

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2005/09/20/hjungle20.xml


/back to topic


--------------------
Amanita forest..| 1st grow: pf-tek & GT | Exceptional P. semilanceata|Salvia vaporisation

Edited by astraalialma (01/09/07 06:15 AM)

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: astraalialma]
    #6441048 -

Even when the ego is taken apart, it always re-asembles. No such thing as ego death unless you actually die during the trip.

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: Mourningdove]
    #6441207 -

There is a such thing as Ego Death, I assure you.
This is Ego Death.
Quote:
Stanislav Grof said:
...total annihilation on all imaginable levels - physical destruction, emotional disaster, intellectual and philosophical defeat, ultimate moral failure, and absolute damnation of transcendental proportions. This experience of ego death seems to entail an instant merciless destruction of all previous reference points in the life of the individual.


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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: Feanor]
    #6445801 -

Yes, in Grof's therapy practice he would give patients 250-400 mics of LSD and have them die and relive their own birth in order to free subjects from traumatic birth experiences. He believed that trauma during birth was the organizational basis for negative thought and behavior patterns latter in life. He called these Basic Perinatal Matrices and he has one for each stage of birth. Trouble in different stages is linked to different negative dispositions. I believe Myron Stolarof had a similar experience without even knowing about Grof.

I agree that Ego Death is when you struggle against annihilation, experiencing your own death. Ego Loss is just when it is gone, whether you 'died' first or it just snuck away.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #6445907 -

I agree with the different descriptions of ego loss and ego death presented in this thread. I just wanted to add that the end result of the two should be nearly identical. The only difference is that in ego death it is a difficult experience because the ego is being ripped from you as you attempt to fight it in every way possible. Ego loss would be more pleasant because you allow it to happen or even actively enter a mental state more conducive to it occurring. The end result = (consciousness - ego) either way, but the death route would obviously have more of a lasting impact as it is far more traumatic.


--------------------
I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: PowerTrip]
    #6447065 -

i experienced an ego loss to some degree on my first trip
the bliss associated with the loss of self is astounding
it seemed like a very 'connected' feeling or state

i had forgotten who i was during that period and was very confused when i began to reassume my identity. i learned a lot though.

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: PowerTrip]
    #6447156 -

PowerTrip said:
I agree with the different descriptions of ego loss and ego death presented in this thread. I just wanted to add that the end result of the two should be nearly identical. The only difference is that in ego death it is a difficult experience because the ego is being ripped from you as you attempt to fight it in every way possible. Ego loss would be more pleasant because you allow it to happen or even actively enter a mental state more conducive to it occurring. The end result = (consciousness - ego) either way, but the death route would obviously have more of a lasting impact as it is far more traumatic.


I agree that the end result is almost identical. I've only had one Ego Death, but the ending sensation is very similar to that of the ending of an Ego Loss. The only difference, like you already mentioned, is that the ending effects of an Ego death is largely amplified in comparison to the ending effects of an Ego loss.

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: eyehavenoi]
    #6447205 -

I dunno if this counts, but I lost it for a bit last night. I ended up by myself but there were people nearby to help if I needed it. I was in the last 3rd of my trip id say. I tried 20x salvia twice the night before also.

So I'm watching the news by myself and I cant really understand much about it. I could pick out some familiar words but couldn't keep the stories separated. All of the sudden a new segment comes on. Its about some black guy in a coma. But I listened to and somewhat understood the whole story.

Then I made mistake of turning the TV off. The room was pretty dark. I got to thinking about the dude in his coma. I slowly came to the conclusion that my reality was his coma world. Like he made up my entire world. I then convinced my self that he was going to wake up soon and life as I knew it would end. I kept waiting for it to happen. The closest I came was when I closed my eyes and I could feel them moving really fast all over under my lid and bright white light kept flashing. Not really strobe like but weird. I thought the light was from the hospital room and I was now comablackman awaking. I dunno how long that last part lasted at all but I was ready. I had given up everything about my being. But I did not wake up in a hospital bed ever and slowly I came back to my room and all seemed ok. At first I was scared, but then I just started to accept it. The whole thing was much more horrible than the post reads but Im not ready to go back into some of those thoughts deeply, I want to sleep good tonight.

It was only my 2nd time to trip on acid. I really wanna smoke but am deffinently not in the mood to bring the trip back. Which does this experience fall under if either? Also the 2nd time I had the salvia It felt like there was a little tiny person in my torso tickling me from the inside trying to get me to cough him up. What could this mean???

Edited by Oddiz (01/10/07 11:27 PM)

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: Oddiz]
    #6447436 -

Did a massive hit of salvia 20x. Lost my ego but didnt know it at the time. I lost all sense of self over what felt like seconds. Was in this strange world as only an entity. No concept of self or anything. It was beatiful, colourful and something that can't be experianced in this world. Like finding out a new sense I had. Gradually came back and remeber who and what I and this world are.


--------------------

I've made  few spore choices in my life. :mushroom2:
Chop... Drop... and Roll

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: Oddiz]
    #6448340 -

Quote:
Oddiz said:
It was only my 2nd time to trip on acid. I really wanna smoke but am deffinently not in the mood to bring the trip back. Which does this experience fall under if either? Also the 2nd time I had the salvia It felt like there was a little tiny person in my torso tickling me from the inside trying to get me to cough him up. What could this mean???


It doesn't really sound like an Ego Death and an Ego Loss to me from what you described. It just sounds like an intense trip. Don't take my word for it though, you understand what you went through better than I do. Do you feel that what you went through matches the definition of an Ego Death?
To be honest, once you experience an Ego Death or an Ego Loss, you will know it! It's one of those things to where your like... what in the heck does this feel like.. what is it.. etc. When you actually experience it, you'll know what it is.

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: Feanor]
    #6450601 -

I look back at it now, more sober than I was yesterday, and think I may have not completely let go of myself but definently remember I had the option to and resisted instead of letting it flow. I was just way too scared to do that.

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: MrBuzin]
    #6451249 -

I've been chased by a universe gone mad, twisting and  ripping everything apart and building small pockets of hell for me to explore, while running away from it.

Only to have myself in the most ... notorious moment of my life, where as every time I trip, I return to this moment in my life. Every time I tripped before this, I came to this place without knowing where it was. Every time I trip after this, I come to this place being awestruck and amazed beyond belief over the fact that I do know where and what this place is.

This place is my home.

No, not so spiritual as you might have hoped for, with the heavens and being a part of the true light of God and all that, no I was home. At my current adress.

Going...No wonder I didn't use to get this place, I didn't even live there until now. And thats the kicker, now ?

Where is Now?!
When?!
What?!

And I'm in my chair, asking all these questions, realizing that I allready know all of this - it being two years ago now, and it has happened about a gazillion times - and my friend tells me the terrible secret of space and goes "oops..." and he starts talking backwards, and when he's done doing that he laughs and says: "ehehe, I just fixed the universe."

This happens about ... 7 or 8 times, this ordeal plays out and I go into hyperspace and relives all of life as from beginning till end (folding through a 4th or 5th dimention or whatever) until I realize I have the power to be wherever I want in eternity, which consequently leads to the realization that I want to go back to where I started from. And on this trip, I started from where I was. All trips before this, and all trips after this, I've returned to the place I actually left my body.

But this time, I didn't return anywhere, I stayed "at home". I told my friends that "it happened AGAIN, this was IT - this is the moment! its happening NOW all over the time!".

And then I had some nightmarish hallucinations, a guided tour to hell and when I was back in my livingroom I remembered EVERYTHING! It was like I was talking backwards to myself from the time of my death, desperately trying to tell myself my life story without me allready knowing what was going to happen, but being such a shitty storyteller I knew all along what was going to happen next.

I was a desperate and feeble mind twisted beyond reality, telling my friends to shut up because I knew what they were going to say, and there was no hope. But they didn't shut up. They never did. They HAD TO SAY it, because thats how it went. And thats what I remembered, and that was GODAWFUL AND FUCKING ANNOYING IN THE DIVINE SENSE OF THE WORD.

When I tried to shut them off, by stuffing pillows in my ears, I'd hallucinate their faces floating around my head, picking on me for being a weirdo and freaking out so god damn much. And I thought so, too. Well, it was just me, so of course I did. Heheh. :smile:

And then I crawled in between my sheets and I thought "Now I'm going to make this a fucking TRIP!" and then I went back in time and FUCKED WITH MYSELF ... and my friends ... for the entirety of the trip. I gave myself ALL the bad things that happened, all the shit, all the fear. I fooled myself. HAH! I thought, followed by, OOH NOO OMG!

I remember being everything in the trip, including OTHER PEOPLES hallucinations. I remember going into a sweater and becoming a snake who was after a friend of mine, it gave me a real chuckle, but my friend was scared. I was scared too, upon realizing that I WAS THE ONE.

And this went on until I reached the beginning of my trip, and started reliving my life backwards, and experiencing everything - CREATING everything up until this moment. And then I started dying, for a brief moment I touched the moment in the chair where I was going "this is the moment", and for the rest of my life I am forbidden to remember what the rest of my life is going to be like.

As if, I allready know, but have magically inserted a "forget-me-now" in my brain. Actually I remember this moment, too, thinking "I need to forget. I need to forget." and hearing "remember what the doormouse said, feed your head" on the stereo. And I started right away distracting myself from rememberance by playing with shit on the table, talking crap which most likely only meant anything to me.

I wonder if I'm going to be in that chair again, going THIS IS THE MOMENT. Heheheheheeehehehehehehehehe.....

Fair to say. I was, and probarly still am, a nutjob, after this particular LSD trip. 500ugs or something, and I weigh like ... 120lbs. And they told me to have another one. Hah.

I also trip out really hard on small amounts of just about anything. I always get twice as stoned as everybody else, and I get really depersonalized and I hear voices, see syncronicity, and think that the TV is communicating with me, hehe.

My point of this story is:

I have no idea.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: yageman]
    #6451258 -

yageman said:
All those who have shizophrenic relatives...........  Realize how close they are, and realize that you likely have a latent trait.

This doesnt have to be a bad thing, or something that makes you stay away from hallucinogens forever.  It just gives you a reason to respect those hallucinogens and their absolute power over some people.  This is not a hallucination....This is the truth.

  I am schizotypal(to the extreem, and with the right diagnosis, I am schizophrenic), and am ready and raring to be a full blown schizo.  I have people on both sides of my immediate family that killed themselves because of it(both sides).  I have also tripped over 160 times on most substances and know how different I am.  I have many smart and close friends who can without a doubt confirm this.

    I have dosed more than most of the people on this site(not my exadurating, and I had a different approach no doubt) and also know that I have "schizos" and suicides on both sides of my family due to this so called "malfunction". I would not continue the use of psychedelics though if I felt that it cannot be controlled.  I am yet to continue my psychedeic search after 1.8 years of not consuming anything except alcohol because of it.  I also have a good friend that lives off of gov. cheese because he has a rather unconrollable version of the same so called "problem".  DOnt get me wrong, much like anything else, this can be a very big problem for some people. I dont need meds.....  Schizophrenia can be more of a blessing than anythings else.  Thats why I feel so taken over, yet tied to hallucinogens, and will be for the rest of my life.

  I know why I trip diffently than most people.  This is not megalomania, this is just what I have gathered over time.
  Most people dont see visuals off of .2 grams but I always did since I was a kid.  I have taken some very steep doses for many years and this has only assentuated my schizotypal personality.

    Dont be afraid of this tendancy, realize how much schizophrenia has to to do with hallucinogens, and dont be scared though it could fuck you up for the rest of your life if you cant assimilate your experiences to a logical sense of self........

Why do people who take hallusinogens see synchronicity everywhere?
  Why do schizophrenics see the same thing....  Why do flat out shizophrenics often claim to see order to their visual palete.  "Visuals" that look like colorful spiderwebs(as is often quoted by schizos).......

If you have such a background you are the prime target for unspeakable teachings bestowed upon you.  Also know that you are vulnerable to its tastes.

I shit you not........If I didnt make this state of mind my own I would be in very grave trouble.  I have control, but my mind wants me to go deeper.  That depth scares me.....I have used massive doses for a number of years, and never for fun.  All I can say is that I am special.  I know that.  Every trip is an addition to the last. 
  Every trip has more ground to cover.

  I wonder if anyone realizes what the term ego loss means to a schizophrenic.....


All I can say is god speed.  Be very careful if you are already weirder than most......  Being TOTALLY different is a good hint.

  Thats why Im at this site.  To spread a similare word among the other words I have spoken.

PSychedelics can make you or break you, or some golden mean inbetween if you take them the right way......

  Id be diagnosed as schizo in a second if I visited a psychotherapist.  It would be cut and dry.  Id be one of the far less extreem cases though.

I dont see visuals every day because of schizophrenia.  Its because Im met that state of mind half way and dealt with it at a very young age.

  This means something to me, and I hope it means something to you all.
  A schizophrenic can live in comfort.  Can make money.......
They will never be normal though.

  Psychedelics can help them come to terms with it, ot they can accentuate the EXTREEMELY negative sides of this so called disorder.


Thanks for posting this  :laugh:  :thumbup:  :heart:


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Re: Ego Death and Ego Loss [Re: slaphappy]
    #6487969 -

We can all thank Timothy Leary for promoting ego death as an inevitably positive experience that everyone should strive for. However, it is not so. Once you're in a state of ego loss there's not much you can do to alter whether it's positive or negative. Your best bet is to mentally prepare for the trip, do all you can to ensure a positive experience and when the moment of ego loss comes, flow with the river of consciousness.


--------------------
Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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