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 kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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 gun or no gun? 
#6433454 - 01/07/07 02:32 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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My friend and I were having a conversation about whether or not it's a good idea to have a gun in the house.
When I was in the states, nearly every house I went into had one, and so to me it's no big deal. I tend think it's a good idea to have some sort of protection about you, because quite frankly, there are some crazy and desperate people out there.
My friend says that it'll just lead to more trouble. My friend also says that I am too paranoid, especially since we live in Australia..and let's face it, Australians are a bunch of docile pansies  j/k
I see what my friend means that I may be a little paranoid, but I feel that it really isn't THAT paranoid. why? because in reality, no one trusts everyone. I mean you can't trust everyone, and you never know when you might be in that situation where just having a gun could save your life, or save someone elses. I mean we do have locks on our doors and we do close our windows and all that jazz so 'no one breaks in' The non trusting of others I feel is inherent in all of us.
So is Andrew a paranoid yank or not? do you agree or disagree with the way that I think people think about each other (ie no one trusts everyone)...if that makes any sense at all??
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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 fireworks_god
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6433468 - 01/07/07 02:39 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, you are clearly paranoid, but that isn't really the point, now is it? 
I'd state that I think individuals should have guns, and that they should demonstrate that they are of the mental capacitity to properly handle one, in a responsible manner.
I think that if you have your own house, and perhaps some property, then you would benefit from owning a gun. Society secures its assets, from guards at a bank to Secret Service for the president.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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MetaShroom
菌类人
Registered: 06/02/02
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But would you rather die in a gunfight defending your property, or run away and hide, have some guy steal some things and claim off your insurance and live?
There may be times when a gun would save your life, but they are outweighed by the times it would cause you to lose your life.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,169
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no gun
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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It is difficult to speculate on matters without being in the specific situation.
How have you determined that situations in which having access to a gun would save one's life are outweighed by situations in which you would lose your life? Any information we could review, or is it just a feeling you have?
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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MetaShroom
菌类人
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Kind of a feeling, but also looking at crime here in the UK, where virtually no one has a gun in their house, compared to the US, where people seem very willing to use them for all sorts of reasons.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
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What is the major difference between crime in the UK and crime in the United States?
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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roby000
me
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
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Re: gun or no gun? *DELETED* [Re: MetaShroom]
#6433751 - 01/07/07 06:21 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by roby000
Reason for deletion: s
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MetaShroom
菌类人
Registered: 06/02/02
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As you can see below you are 42 times more likely to be killed unintentionally by a gun in the US.
Code:
Deaths per 100,000/year(1999)
Homicide Suicide Unintentional
England/Wales 0.12 0.22 0.01
USA 4.08 6.08 0.42
source: World Health Organisation
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JOIN MAPS -> www.MAPS.ORG
Edited by MetaShroom (01/07/07 06:30 AM)
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wilshire
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6433864 - 01/07/07 07:27 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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there are a few reasons i can think of that a person would not want to own a gun:
1. they are a user of illegal drugs and live in a place, such as the united states, where simultaneous possession of controlled substances and guns is strictly prohibited.
2. they live in a place, such as australia, where it difficult or impossible to legally own a gun.
3. they are not willing to take the time to learn to shoot and maintain a gun, store it properly, or become familiarized self-defense law.
4. they cannot afford to buy one.
other than that, i see no reason not to own a gun. on the other hand, there are plenty of good reasons to own a gun. home defense is just one of them.
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adrug
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6434139 - 01/07/07 09:39 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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My dad was an ex-military man. When I was growing up, we had two gun cabinets in our porch, loaded with various weapons (bows, guns, knives, etc). My sisters and brother and I were taught from a very young age that we were not allowed to touch the gun cabinets (which were locked ALWAYS unless my dad was cleaning one of the weapons). In junior high, I took a hunter's safety class and learned how to clean, load, and shoot a shotgun. I couldn't have been more than 11 or 12 years old. My point here is, if you teach children to respect weapons, then there should not be any issues.
On the other hand, I would have serious reservations about keeping a handgun in an easily accessible place, unlocked, within reach of children. Its just a matter of keeping things in their place and teaching those around them to respect what a weapon like that can do.
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Grav
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: adrug]
#6437404 - 01/08/07 06:41 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would rather be deadly with my hands, other people can't steal that from you.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6437475 - 01/08/07 07:35 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
In current clinical use, psychopathy is most commonly diagnosed using Robert D. Hare's Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R). Hare describes psychopaths as "intraspecies predators who use charm, manipulation, intimidation, and violence to control others and to satisfy their own selfish needs. Lacking in conscience and in feelings for others, they cold-bloodedly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret."[2] "What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony."[3]
here
This is between one and four out of every hundred people. Imagine one of these people, endowed with a particularly mean streak, entering your house looking for loot and/or sex with your wife.
Read the wiki entry, do some websearches and fit an abundance of all sorts of sociopaths and psychopaths in your world view. Western society is swarming with them, that's why most of the horrible shit happens. That's why we have prisons - there are predators among us, the "big bad wolf" is real and might be your friendly neighbor.
It in my view then becomes understandable that some people seek the safety of a gun. We do not live in the ideal world, and some are far worse off than others.
Do I like it? Not in the least.
But I think that the thought of home defense is defensible itself.
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higher knowledge starts here
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nightkrawler
explorer
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6437807 - 01/08/07 10:10 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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i'd say since you live in australia where guns are illegal, it's not too smart to have one, especially because you most likely have drugs too, and that's just double the trouble.
where guns are legal though, i think it's good to have one if you're even considering owning one. not only for safety, but it's also a great time going in the backyard shooting targets.
switzerland is the country in which guns are most legal, and the vast majority of swiss citizens own them. shooting is a national passtime, and their crime rate is virtually non existant. goes to show that guns are not part of the crime problem, you might even be able to say that they're part of the solution. if you were going to break into someones house and rob them, and you lived in a country where virtually everyone owns a gun, you'd probably think twice about the burglary.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1566715.stm
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Not all who wander are lost - J.R.R. Tolkien
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane
Registered: 12/09/02
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: roby000]
#6437963 - 01/08/07 11:24 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
roby000 said:
id buy one if i didnt live in an apartment and i would worry about a stray bullet going through a wall and hittins someone. if i had my own house with no connecting walls i would concider it. i would probably buy rubber bullets for it though, its not just your property its your family and their saftey from a crazy that you buy it for.
You can use frangiable bullets.SWAT teams use them for their MP5's in a stray bullet high risk area.
As for anyone using US vs UK for gun crime. How about UK vs Jamaica where guns have been baned since the 70's and it didnt stop a damn thing. Ive noticed most people with no experience with guns are ignorant of when or why to use them.If you can run away and call the cops you should, if you can fight it out you dont need a gun this isnt a movie and not everyone is a gang banger. If you are cornered by some guy with a gun or disparity?
Since this is s&p. Anti-gun people or fence sitters are emotionally clouded when it comes to guns. There are all sorts of statistics to make them realize they have no idea what they are talking about. Like children are 10-16 times more likely to drown in a 5 gallon water pail than get accidentally shot.Yet you have all this mad sensationalism in the media about we have to get safety locks on all guns or else they will all die blah blah. It's completely irrational thinking.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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 Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6439358 - 01/08/07 07:37 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've been struggling with this for a while now. Two months ago I came home on a Saturday afternoon to find a helicopter circling my neighborhood. I got pissed at my naive Lady for walking around the back yard in her pajamas because it was obvious a manhunt was going on. I had a helicopter poised over my last house at night with their searchlight on, years ago, for 1/2 an hour with 2 cops outside and the road closed at both ends. A dangerous criminal had run through my yard. On another occasion I had been startled by several shotgun-toting cops, walking through back yards who asked me to go inside for a while while they tracked two males who had run over a Florida Highway Patrol on I-95. I was on the 6:00 news when I heard them screaming from the Police dogs set on them.
The incident of two months ago occurred on the next street over in my closed neighborhood. A vendetta-killing for a gun deal gone bad. Five assailants went to a 7 year old girl's birthday party and killed her and her mother. They shot two more adults non-fatally, and shot two four year old children in the head. One lost an eye, the other is brain damaged. One of the shot women ran, bloody, to my neighbor Sandry but Sandry had her grand daughter inside, and she had her son and brother killed several years ago in another shooting. She wouldn't open the door!
I do not want a handgun (although I've used a .38 revolver and an old Navy Colt .45 fairly accurately at a range). No, handguns create additional problems. I was thinking of a 'cruiser' - a legally sawed-off, factory-installed pistol-grip, 10 gauage shotgun with 00 buckshot that I could keep by the bed. I DO have a Brinks alarm system with glassbreak sensors and magnetic switches, and I am not a 'hit' (no cash, jewelry, drugs, weapons collection). But, Miami is full of violent psychopaths - really. A few years ago, in New Hampshire at a friends, the news guy said: 'There was a break-in in the state today..." IN THE STATE?!!! You should see what the nightly local news show in Miami!!!
The hat rack at the front door has a mean-looking slotted-blade Bowie knife strapped to it, and there is a club in the bedroom, but I still don't know about the cruiser. Hey, I'm a peaceful man if you couldn't tell, but when it comes to protecting my Lady and myself in this sociopathic cesspool... Miami is the 'syphillitic shanker' on the 'penis' of the Florida peninsula. The Keys are 'drops' of 'discharge.' The nuts might all roll to California, but the sludge slides down to Florida. Hope this doesn't offend Floridian Shroomerites, but Miami is a mean scene!
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resin
Ghetto Monster
Registered: 06/12/02
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Loc: Ca$hville
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Get a gun. I rather die defending my shit, then run and hide from someone on my property, envading myspace.Lke said above you can get frangible bullets(at gun shows, hard to find).You cant get a sawed off shotgun without a class 3 licence. If you had one of those you could get suprossers, full auto/select fire weapons, and short barreled firearms.If you have one of these, pm me as i need a supressor.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: resin]
#6439821 - 01/08/07 09:28 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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gun or no gun? gun.
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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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PowerTrip
Polypharmaceutical Shaman
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 1,148
Loc: The void
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Quote:
MetaShroom said:
As you can see below you are 42 times more likely to be killed unintentionally by a gun in the US.
Code:
Deaths per 100,000/year(1999)
Homicide Suicide Unintentional
England/Wales 0.12 0.22 0.01
USA 4.08 6.08 0.42
source: World Health Organisation
Based on the fact that England was used as a comparison, I assume this is meant to indicate that gun ownership results in shooting deaths. There is no direct correlation between shooting deaths and gun ownership though, as demonstrated by other countries with even greater gun ownership (Canada for example) which have a fraction of the gun related deaths of the US.
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I spit reality, instead of what you usually learn
and I refuse to be concerned with condescending advice
cause I'm the only motherfucker that can change my life
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6440175 - 01/08/07 11:12 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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get a gun, a gun is just a tool.
get a grip, be conscious in the way you use your tool.
this is my philosophy of owning a gun.
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California
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N
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Posts: 72,118
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6440233 - 01/08/07 11:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Gun.
Two or three or twelve guns even.
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Quote:
MetaShroom said:
But would you rather die in a gunfight defending your property, or run away and hide, have some guy steal some things and claim off your insurance and live?
There may be times when a gun would save your life, but they are outweighed by the times it would cause you to lose your life.
sometimes it's not just about stealing things.
The idea behind this thread though is trusting others. I made a very bold claim that everyone can't trust everyone. Does this lack of trust run so deep within any of us that a obtaining a gun is the logical thing to do?
I mean, most of us lock our doors and windows, shut the blinds, and all that jazz because our trust in people is very limited.
another question to think about is why can't we trust people, and why is it that people get to the point of, for example, needing to rob others?
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
Edited by kaiowas (01/09/07 01:25 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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 Re: gun or no gun? [Re: resin]
#6440729 - 01/09/07 05:37 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sorry, I'm definately not gonna be a gun dealer. As for cruisers/shotguns, I don't need any permit in Florida - just walk in and buy one.
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slaphappy
Its just me
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, RÃ¥holt...
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If you live in an area where people are likely to enter your house at night and rape your wife...
... COME ON!!!!!!! MOVE THE FUCK AWAY FROM THERE!! IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO BUY A DEATH MACHINE YOU CAN CERTAINLY AFFORD A FUCKING TRAIN TICKET TO SOMEWHERE SAFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB!
People who like guns are close to always retarded inbreads from certain parts of a certain country. So if you are one of those ... perhaps you should move anyway, huh?
Besides...how many people do you know who has been raped/killed?
...how many people do you know who's been ran over by a drunk driver?
...and how many people live in your area?
...how many times have you or anyone you know been robbed, had something stolen from them or something, and survived? Did they have a gun?
How many gun-toting hip gangster wannabes kill eachother each and every day of the week?
Consider the numbers, do a quick recap, and decide wether you should buy a gun to kill yourself, or just move the fuck away to somewhere sane.
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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
 
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: slaphappy]
#6440908 - 01/09/07 08:26 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Theatrics aside, there are a lot more factors to be taken into consideration regarding where one chooses to live than simply the violent crime rate of the area.
Perhaps we should tell the Iraqis that, if the insurgents are murdering too many people in the area, they are dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb to not move away. Yeah, that's it. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: slaphappy]
#6440918 - 01/09/07 08:29 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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oh, i see. you're from norway.
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Nemo_Hoes
Juan Sánchez Villa-Lobo RamÃrez
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Posts: 39,721
Loc: Ray Ray's Mystery Garage
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: kaiowas]
#6440928 - 01/09/07 08:31 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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You should have like 10 guns.
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We will also report to the NAACP and to Al Sharpton's entourage, how the Shroomery administrators allows their mods and members to be balatantly allowed the use of the 'N' word.
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: Nemo_Hoes]
#6440938 - 01/09/07 08:34 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'd rather have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
It's simply about being prepared for the worst. I don't plan on fighting a raging housefire, but I DO have fire extinguishers in and around my house.
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Nemo_Hoes
Juan Sánchez Villa-Lobo RamÃrez
Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 39,721
Loc: Ray Ray's Mystery Garage
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I don't plan on shooting someone, but I sure as fuck will. I killed fifty men.
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We will also report to the NAACP and to Al Sharpton's entourage, how the Shroomery administrators allows their mods and members to be balatantly allowed the use of the 'N' word.
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memes
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: slaphappy]
#6441179 - 01/09/07 10:09 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
slaphappy said:
If you live in an area where people are likely to enter your house at night and rape your wife...
... COME ON!!!!!!! MOVE THE FUCK AWAY FROM THERE!! IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO BUY A DEATH MACHINE YOU CAN CERTAINLY AFFORD A FUCKING TRAIN TICKET TO SOMEWHERE SAFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB!
People who like guns are close to always retarded inbreads from certain parts of a certain country. So if you are one of those ... perhaps you should move anyway, huh?
Besides...how many people do you know who has been raped/killed?
...how many people do you know who's been ran over by a drunk driver?
...and how many people live in your area?
...how many times have you or anyone you know been robbed, had something stolen from them or something, and survived? Did they have a gun?
How many gun-toting hip gangster wannabes kill eachother each and every day of the week?
Consider the numbers, do a quick recap, and decide wether you should buy a gun to kill yourself, or just move the fuck away to somewhere sane.
This is probably one of the most unintelligent posts i've read in a while - made by someone who is lucky enough to live in a nice area where there apparently isn't much of a crime rate. Also, being able to afford a $250 shotgun is nothing compared to being able to move to a safer area...
I, on the other hand, live a big city with big ghettos. I'm not in one persay, but it starts one block over and keeps going for a mile or so. Streets A-D are ghetto and Street E (my street) is full of college kids whose parents pay for housing (me). So obviously there are many many confrontations where the less-fortunate from the neighboring streets come to take from the fortunate.
My windows have bars on them, the door has automatic locks and a deadbolt that stays locked when we're home and not home. Remember, you must take into consideration that 90% of the time criminals break into someones house to steal shit - they want to avoid confrontations that would cause the police to arrive faster. Very seldom does someone break into a house with the sole purpose of killing everything inside.
So my solution? A Mossberg 500A 12 gauge with 8-shot capacity, dual pistol grips, retractable stock and a pressure sensative mounted flashlight. The most intimidating sound in the world is a kocking shotgun, and as soon as i hear the door get kicked in (the only way they'd be able to break in), they're going to want to turn right back around.
In the next few months i'll be picking up a small, concealable handgun to carry.
P.S. i am mature and responsible with all my weapons...
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Khaunshar
Stranger
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Loc: BE
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: memes]
#6441197 - 01/09/07 10:15 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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you made me laugh meams.
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fashs and cops, both go down, as the aggro spreads across town, bricks n bottles fall like rain, evil coppers double up in pain
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: slaphappy]
#6441201 - 01/09/07 10:15 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
... COME ON!!!!!!! MOVE THE FUCK AWAY FROM THERE!! IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO BUY A DEATH MACHINE YOU CAN CERTAINLY AFFORD A FUCKING TRAIN TICKET TO SOMEWHERE SAFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The train ticket isn't the expensive part of new housing. A gun is going to be a lot cheaper than buying a new house or breaking a lease on one's apartment.
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Irdamage
Autobot
Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 1,491
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: Redstorm]
#6441336 - 01/09/07 11:12 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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A gun is a house neccessity only if you the homeowner feels its a neccessity. If you live in a dangerous area (or one with high crime rates), and have something/someone you wish to protect with your life by all means get a gun (legally). As a Canadian citizen I beleive in the right to gun ownership for both self defensive, and sporting reasons. However I also think this should be limited to rifles and shotguns, perticularly in Canada. We have no reason for civilians to be carrying automatic weapons/handguns and alike. These weapons should be restricted to use in tactical combat by police or military personel. Lets at least be realistic about it. (This is pretty much the current system in Canada , Im just supporting it even further)
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 14 days
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: Irdamage]
#6441380 - 01/09/07 11:28 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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if someone points a gun at you it will be hard to go get your gun
if someone does not have a gun then martial arts training and practical fighting knowledge will save your life better than fumbling around to go find where your gun is and get it in the meantime they will clobber you
a tai chi master can kill you by breaking your back WHILE you are punching HIM.
if you succeede in somehow surprising an intruder, rather than the other way around, practical fightining knowledge would also be just as useful as a gun, because again you have to fumble around to go get it
and how proficient are you with a gun? anyone with money can get one but that doesn't mean much, you would have to take courses and learn how to use them in a systematic kill-zombie-robot manner like the police and army people do in order to really truely succeede in saving yourself
someone that comes up with vast scenarios where a gun might be necessary might have a mind that is completely delusional and preocupied with negativity unless this person lives in a dangerous area.
these are some opinions
a gun could be good if you really felt you lived in a situation where you needed it, you were trained in unarmed combat, and you were proficient with gun use
things aren't like in the movies where you have time to go get a gun.
this one dude was shot to death by the police for grabbing his wallet in about 3 seconds straight, 16 rounds into him in 3 seconds..... before he could pull his wallet all the way out of his pants... because he ran inside because he didn't speak english and a random confrontation from undercover cops scared the shit out of him and he tried to lock his door
you can't just whip something out and expect people to wait for you to use it
like energies attract like energies, always, unconditionally, its science and it isn't just some law that doesn't apply to human beings, mental intentions, habits, and tendencies.
wearing seatbelts, looking both ways before crossing the street, being polite, not speeding, not drinking and driving, staying away from rough crowds, keeping your ego in check, these are things much more likely to save your life than a gun.
you could stockpile 50 of them and choke to death on a sandwich.
get out of bad areas if you can.
if you can't, find a way to, bum a ride from someone, anyone, and start a new in a friendly town working your way up, use your imagination in some way other than being destructive, money is just paper and property is just arbitrary lines.
Edited by leery11 (01/09/07 11:41 AM)
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: leery11]
#6441745 - 01/09/07 01:19 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Outside is a very different story.But not all situations are you unable to outdraw your attacker.He or they might not even have a gun. But usually if someone comes in your house with a gun you have a head start.Its not hard to be more proficient with a handgun than most cops and especially Military people, not including Special Forces and SWAT. A great example that happened not too long ago is a 70-90 year old woman i cant remember the exact age but does it really matter in this case. A SWAT team got the wrong house where using a no knock warrant. She hears them coming to her door but doesnt know its the cops,keep in mind it was late at night in a bad neighborhood.They bust in her bedroom and she manges to shot 3 of them before they put her out.And this was a group of highly trained people with Automatic MP5'S ready to go.
Quote:
someone that comes up with vast scenarios where a gun might be necessary might have a mind that is completely delusional and preocupied with negativity unless this person lives in a dangerous area.
You could say the same thing about Car/Home insurance, Fire extinguishers.I guess in part you are right.But I wouldn't call it delusional. Some people want to be heroes and save the day.That's a natural instinct nothing delusional about it,Protecting the tribe,fighting evil, whatever you want to call it.
Quote:
wearing seatbelts, looking both ways before crossing the street, being polite, not speeding, not drinking and driving, staying away from rough crowds, keeping your ego in check, these are things much more likely to save your life than a gun.
you could stockpile 50 of them and choke to death on a sandwich.
You're right. But thats also a great case for guns.There are much more dangerous things your likely to encounter so why not?
and mark gnostic for a short barrel rifle/shot gun you need to pay a 200 dollar tax and fill out ATF form 4 i think which involves getting the form signed by the police and getting finger printed. Not worth it for what you get.
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leery11
I Tell You What!
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 9 years, 14 days
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: buckwheat]
#6441779 - 01/09/07 01:29 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
buckwheat said:
Outside is a very different story.But not all situations are you unable to outdraw your attacker.He or they might not even have a gun. But usually if someone comes in your house with a gun you have a head start.Its not hard to be more proficient with a handgun than most cops and especially Military people, not including Special Forces and SWAT. A great example that happened not too long ago is a 70-90 year old woman i cant remember the exact age but does it really matter in this case. A SWAT team got the wrong house where using a no knock warrant. She hears them coming to her door but doesnt know its the cops,keep in mind it was late at night in a bad neighborhood.They bust in her bedroom and she manges to shot 3 of them before they put her out.And this was a group of highly trained people with Automatic MP5'S ready to go.
i suppose if granny hadn't had a gun, and if we didn't have such a weird police vibe in this nation, this story would have ended better.
but you did spark my imagination on roads (which i have labeled as not conducive to emotional wellbeing) which have helped me reconsider.
i suppose if you are in a room far away from the common entry points to your home you would hear an intruder before they heard you.
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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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memes
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: leery11]
#6441993 - 01/09/07 02:49 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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aren't police required to identify themselves before entry?
i.e. the granny situation - had they said 'its the police', 4 people would be alive today (well, maybe not the granny depending on how old the story is).
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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 Re: gun or no gun? [Re: slaphappy]
#6442124 - 01/09/07 03:34 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can't help it, I'm a dumb retarded inbred retard with no trains around, except the ones that carry gravel and squwarsh cars sometimes.
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elsig
Knowledgespeaks, wisdom listens
Registered: 09/14/06
Posts: 533
Loc: the beach
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i belive norway (could be wrong) has most guns per people in the world, and there is very little gun violance in norway, there is some but not much. i owe 3 firearms myself, one handgun, one shotgun and one rifle. i live in the nature more and less and i need guns from time to time, it could e a moose that has been runned over a car and need to be put down or i just hunt. I have a clock 19 also which i have with me in nature when im not hunting. i think that as long as you can have a healthy relationship with guns its all good. But I have a license for all my weapons, police was here last year just to check if i had all the guns and stuff, its a pretty good controll here. And the guns are ALWAYS locked up with ammo in a safe. (i have kids)
The crime isnt so here that i think i will ever need it in self defence or anything.
try to get a gun legally, join a gunclub or something.
edit; confused one post with another and it came out wrong
Edited by elsig (01/09/07 04:03 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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 Re: gun or no gun? [Re: elsig]
#6442186 - 01/09/07 03:57 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm speechless. I'm finally at a loss for words. What can I say? Anyone?
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adrug
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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"Stop or I'll shoot!"
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Loc: South Florida
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: adrug]
#6442603 - 01/09/07 06:14 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: buckwheat]
#6442618 - 01/09/07 06:16 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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We'll see. I'm already fingerprinted and there is no state tax or 'gun tax.' There is no waiting period in Florida except for handguns. It's different everywhere.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Quote:
RoosterCogburn said:
I'd rather have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I hate to admit it, but I rather like this statement. Like AlteredAgain, I see a gun as a tool. I have an alarm system which chased off a burglar once before, but for true psychopaths who make me 'fear for my life, 'deadly force' is legal in the sanctity of my home.
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
We'll see. I'm already fingerprinted and there is no state tax or 'gun tax.' There is no waiting period in Florida except for handguns. It's different everywhere.
http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1254040
This is federal.Alphabet soup agency revenue,any barrel under 16" on a rifle/shotgun required this. It's left over from the 1930's machine gun "ban". They could not ban them since it would be unconstitutional so they made up something about a 200 stamp tax.Back then 200 dollar tax had the same result as a ban practically.Same thing happened in the 90's with the import ban on Auto weapons,with supply and demand a 20 year old AK-47 that you can get for 50 bucks in other part of the world will now set you back 15k.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: buckwheat]
#6443072 - 01/09/07 08:22 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting. I see there is an 18" model. The shorter the barrel, the fewer the shells, and since I'm not a gun mavin, I've got to have at least 5 shots.
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memes
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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i have the shortest legal barrel and my gun holds 7+1
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memes
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: memes]
#6443671 - 01/09/07 10:50 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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edit: here's a pic of my home defender
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str8
Im fuckin bonzo,yo!
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 200
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: memes]
#6443829 - 01/09/07 11:43 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Offer percentages of the difference between UK to USA, death by stabbings, bludgeoning, poisonings, and asphyxiations as opposed to gun violence death suicides. If uve got the mind to kill you’ll use what u got. And u aint got alot of guns, not by our standards.
Guns were suggested in our very (US) constitution, as a means to control an overly obtuse government. As a means of preservation of the very basic freedoms our 4fathers intended in the original constitution. When the government takes away our liberties slowy, slowly, slowly, withering away at the fabric of what was envisioned, implemented, and ratified in the name of true freedom. Our constitution implies when the government starts becoming to top heavy, stealing our liberties and basic human rights…. we are not obliged to take that shit from no 1 not even them, and a revolt is in order… with guns! Sadly I think the time for self-preservation mode… is uncomfortably near.. so GUN!
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Considering Im certifiably insane, I can't be held liable for comments made herein. I do not even know if they are true! So if I speak in the 3rd person, 4give me. Often my alter ego, who lives in Mexico speaks on my behalf frequently. Also, just remember, I'm schizophrenic... and so am I. I plea insanity! I didnt do it!
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slaphappy
Its just me
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, RÃ¥holt...
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: str8]
#6444090 - 01/10/07 02:43 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Get the trainticket, then get a fucking job.
In the long run, its cheaper to get housing in a safe area, than it is to KEEP your house in a dangerous one.
I'd rather not need a gun, period.
And fireworks_god, how the fuck can you compare this to a fucking war? Your retardedness never stops to amaze me. I'm sorry to come right out and flame your ass, but if you read closely you'll see that your post is belittling me more than I belittle you, and atleast I can fucking admit to it by clearly stating that I find you to be a fucking retard.
And yes, I love "fuck" and "fucking". Its my new thing. Along with "retard". Too much Joe Rogan on video.google.com. Sorry. Next.
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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
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str8
Im fuckin bonzo,yo!
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 200
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: slaphappy]
#6444097 - 01/10/07 02:50 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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JUST SHOOT EM!
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Considering Im certifiably insane, I can't be held liable for comments made herein. I do not even know if they are true! So if I speak in the 3rd person, 4give me. Often my alter ego, who lives in Mexico speaks on my behalf frequently. Also, just remember, I'm schizophrenic... and so am I. I plea insanity! I didnt do it!
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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 Re: gun or no gun? [Re: slaphappy]
#6444113 - 01/10/07 03:00 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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No wonder why I love you..
Had you been female, ... You'd be mine for ever..
..and I'd be y'ours!
 
(FFS? Where the fuck in hell, is my  runkasfuckinghellgotnosleep: emoticon?)
Edited by Gomp (01/10/07 03:35 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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 Re: gun or no gun? [Re: memes]
#6444250 - 01/10/07 05:38 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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 Here's mine.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh
Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: leery11]
#6444576 - 01/10/07 08:54 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said:
if someone points a gun at you it will be hard to go get your gun
if someone does not have a gun then martial arts training and practical fighting knowledge will save your life better than fumbling around to go find where your gun is and get it in the meantime they will clobber you
a tai chi master can kill you by breaking your back WHILE you are punching HIM.
if you succeede in somehow surprising an intruder, rather than the other way around, practical fightining knowledge would also be just as useful as a gun, because again you have to fumble around to go get it
and how proficient are you with a gun? anyone with money can get one but that doesn't mean much, you would have to take courses and learn how to use them in a systematic kill-zombie-robot manner like the police and army people do in order to really truely succeede in saving yourself
someone that comes up with vast scenarios where a gun might be necessary might have a mind that is completely delusional and preocupied with negativity unless this person lives in a dangerous area.
these are some opinions
a gun could be good if you really felt you lived in a situation where you needed it, you were trained in unarmed combat, and you were proficient with gun use
things aren't like in the movies where you have time to go get a gun.
this one dude was shot to death by the police for grabbing his wallet in about 3 seconds straight, 16 rounds into him in 3 seconds..... before he could pull his wallet all the way out of his pants... because he ran inside because he didn't speak english and a random confrontation from undercover cops scared the shit out of him and he tried to lock his door
you can't just whip something out and expect people to wait for you to use it
like energies attract like energies, always, unconditionally, its science and it isn't just some law that doesn't apply to human beings, mental intentions, habits, and tendencies.
wearing seatbelts, looking both ways before crossing the street, being polite, not speeding, not drinking and driving, staying away from rough crowds, keeping your ego in check, these are things much more likely to save your life than a gun.
you could stockpile 50 of them and choke to death on a sandwich.
get out of bad areas if you can.
if you can't, find a way to, bum a ride from someone, anyone, and start a new in a friendly town working your way up, use your imagination in some way other than being destructive, money is just paper and property is just arbitrary lines.
not all people are physically capable of defending themselves in that manner, even with training.
tell 65 year old lady what you just wrote there. tell a paralyzed 30 year old man that. you see my point.
i vote, if you are responsible and have the proper training, and you WANT to own a gun for self defense, and keep it locked up or out of reach of those less responsible, then by all means go for it.
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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Syle
Kenai Sigh
Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: slaphappy]
#6444583 - 01/10/07 08:59 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
slaphappy said:
Get the trainticket, then get a fucking job.
In the long run, its cheaper to get housing in a safe area, than it is to KEEP your house in a dangerous one.
I'd rather not need a gun, period.
And fireworks_god, how the fuck can you compare this to a fucking war? Your retardedness never stops to amaze me. I'm sorry to come right out and flame your ass, but if you read closely you'll see that your post is belittling me more than I belittle you, and atleast I can fucking admit to it by clearly stating that I find you to be a fucking retard.
And yes, I love "fuck" and "fucking". Its my new thing. Along with "retard". Too much Joe Rogan on video.google.com. Sorry. Next.
lol.
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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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 Moderator Notice [Re: slaphappy]
#6445089 - 01/10/07 12:02 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forum Rules: Philosophy And Spirituality
1) No flaming. If you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling him/her "stupid" or an "idiot" don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent discussion, not for belittling someone who holds differing opinions. This rule will be strictly enforced. If you have been warned already you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently. Choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.
User slaphappy has been banned from the Philosophy and Spirituality forum for six days.
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
Forum Rules: Philosophy And Spirituality
1) No flaming. If you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling him/her "stupid" or an "idiot" don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent discussion, not for belittling someone who holds differing opinions. This rule will be strictly enforced. If you have been warned already you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently. Choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.
User slaphappy has been banned from the Philosophy and Spirituality forum for six days.
???
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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wilshire
free radical
Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: memes]
#6447505 - 01/11/07 01:12 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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i hate that i even have to say it, but most of the shit you've gone and done to your shotgun will do nothing in a defense scenario other than give some asshole prosecutor something to use to make a jury look less favorably on you when the shooting stops.
the folding stock is useless because you're not going to be firing it without a stock unless you're stupid or in a movie. the grips increase badassness at a cost of retention capability. the heat shield will only help if you dump a whole magazine or two in short order, which would make those extra shells in the side carrier a lot handier if you ever actually did that.
the flashlight is a good addition because it lets you see, but what is that, a maglight?
to anyone who wants to own a gun for home defense:
1. good. everyone who can, should own a gun. it's you're home. defend it. don't listen to all of the ignorant anti-gun nuts who are too insecure and indecisive to defend themselves and would feel better if you were too. that's really what their problem is. owning a gun can and does save people's lives all the time.
2. don't think that just because you've have a gun, you've got the ultimate in home defense. a gun is the absolute worst form of home defense. if you end up shooting someone, you've already been severely violated. you're going to have a lot of cleaning up and a lot of explaining to do. a set of good locks and maybe a dog are much better. a gun is an emergency last line in defense of life when all else fails. shooting at someone under any other circumstances will land you in jail.
3. don't get some ridiculous rambo shit and definitely avoid a handgun. you want a shotgun, a regular old pump action (or maybe autoloading) shotgun. the shotgun is by far the most common firearm kept for sporting purposes. for that reason, it is the least likely to be the subject of restrictive laws, or make things worse for you should you ever have to convince a police investigator or jury that you're just a regular person who keeps guns for normal reasons who was put in a bad situation. they also happen to be absolutely devastating in close combat, and cheap. get a membership at a local range and practice. shooting is fun. there's no reason to keep a gun just for defense when there are great sporting uses for it too.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: wilshire]
#6448014 - 01/11/07 08:32 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think your perspective on the matter is very reasonable.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
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memes
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: wilshire]
#6448218 - 01/11/07 09:54 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said:
i hate that i even have to say it, but most of the shit you've gone and done to your shotgun will do nothing in a defense scenario other than give some asshole prosecutor something to use to make a jury look less favorably on you when the shooting stops.
the folding stock is useless because you're not going to be firing it without a stock unless you're stupid or in a movie. the grips increase badassness at a cost of retention capability. the heat shield will only help if you dump a whole magazine or two in short order, which would make those extra shells in the side carrier a lot handier if you ever actually did that.
the flashlight is a good addition because it lets you see, but what is that, a maglight?
I bought it that way - but thanks!
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: wilshire]
#6448534 - 01/11/07 11:46 AM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah i remember a case where a guy used a 10mm glock when he was hunting.Which is what that round is used for. But a jury gave him time because cops dont use that round,because it's too powerfull or whatever and meant to "Kill" . It depends on the state though in FL or Tx he would have no problem.
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Cherk
Fashionable
Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: buckwheat]
#6449003 - 01/11/07 02:15 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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the problem is that george bush enjoys the pop of a firearm more than
fine philosophical speculation, but he won't tell you that unless you get it out of him in fine philosophical speculation
its too late by then
the other problem is that most of you gun owners are part of his flying monkey army, and won't admit it till you make everyone else feel reall shitty about being late
and then we gotta take care of your pa's, ma's, siblin's, n cousin's,
you know, we gotta make the hunter feel real big and manly for killing that deer cause you don't wanna see him cry when he realizes that the deer really killed him
if you're gonna shoot shit, least have some class
do it like hunter s thompson
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I have considered such matters.
SIKE
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memes
Blessed
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: Cherk]
#6449045 - 01/11/07 02:25 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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no idea waht your talking about! that probably means your smarter than me.
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Cherk
Fashionable
Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: memes]
#6449118 - 01/11/07 02:42 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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well figure it out man
do it for your country
aren't you patriotic?
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I have considered such matters.
SIKE
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buckwheat
Cynically Insane
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 11,179
Loc: Not Enough Characters to ...
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: Cherk]
#6449428 - 01/11/07 04:04 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
cherokee said:
the problem is that george bush enjoys the pop of a firearm more than
fine philosophical speculation, but he won't tell you that unless you get it out of him in fine philosophical speculation
its too late by then
the other problem is that most of you gun owners are part of his flying monkey army, and won't admit it till you make everyone else feel reall shitty about being late
and then we gotta take care of your pa's, ma's, siblin's, n cousin's,
you know, we gotta make the hunter feel real big and manly for killing that deer cause you don't wanna see him cry when he realizes that the deer really killed him
if you're gonna shoot shit, least have some class
do it like hunter s thompson
Bush is Anti-gun  . He only supports minor gun issues to maintain his false image of a true conservative. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3013559.stm
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/bushsecondamend.html
He tripled the size and funding of the ATF.
He's been quoted as saying he would have signed the Assault Weapons ban. It just didn't make it to his desk.
Daddy bush also banned the importation of chinese guns and ammo. Knowing they would be cheap and plentiful. Cant have peasants affording guns now cant we.
Not all gun owners hunt!!! Most ignorant post ive ever read. 
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Cherk
Fashionable
Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: gun or no gun? [Re: buckwheat]
#6449565 - 01/11/07 04:35 PM (17 years, 3 months ago) |
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a reason to shoot, a reason not to shoot, a reason to be shot, a reason not to be shot
its all sentinence
if you don't understand trigger, why do you have one?
this is all politics is
chess with the pawns of life
go dog go
--------------------
I have considered such matters.
SIKE
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