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Invisiblegotyerback
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: dmthead420]
    #6414183 - 12/31/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a tip on persuasive writing. When you seriously offend your audience, your original message gets lost. You may have some points on our society going too far with chemicals and losing touch with nature. But to claim everything is a big conspiracy with evil purposes goes too far.

Do you think if there was an all natural herb or mineral that could cure illness and make people feel better that nobody would be selling it?

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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: gotyerback]
    #6415465 - 01/01/07 12:43 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

The FDA is full of shit! They care nothing about humanity and only money.

Fact: It is ILLEGAL for the FDA to approve anything natural.

Reason: You cannot patent anything that comes from the earth. When you don't have a patent everyone can sell it thus lowering the price.

All the drugs available are to treat illness. We find nothing that provided cures. Look at the business plan of drug companies. Since when wasn't it the sole job to make money? Aren't drug companies traded on the stock market?

And yes I have seen shows on the history channel that Mayans (or Aztecs?) were the first to perform brain surgery without modern antistetics.

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: daytripper05]
    #6415499 - 01/01/07 01:05 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper05 said:

All the drugs available are to treat illness. We find nothing that provided cures.





It is inevitable that somehow, someday we will all die. Thus, you cannot find a "cure" for many things, its impossible.

With that said, your best bet is to extend your life as long as possible. Modern medicines do a good job at this. In addition, many companies produce vaccines, which in effect, provide a "cure" for particular diseases.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: badchad]
    #6415652 - 01/01/07 02:08 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

you are a tool.

just because we are going to die one day doesn't mean we have to sacrafice a physical well-being today by shoving drugs down our throat.

A few vaccines have been introduced but the majority of the drugs doctors prescribe are bullshit. High blood pressure and high cholestoral meds are biggest money making drug/scam ever in history. Rather than change your diet and exercise they give you a pill that you have take everyday for the rest or your life. That's the whole goal. Chronological, manageable diseases.

The same goes for every psychological drug on the market. I am sure there are many many more. When's the last time you went to the doctor with a problem and he didn't try to presribe a drug. I am disabled and could be prescribed to all kinds of drugs. But I feel 10x better without any of them.

Prescribed drugs do not provide a better well being. They provide the illusion that something is better.

Not only that. the negative side effects almost always outway the possible.

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: daytripper05]
    #6415712 - 01/01/07 02:35 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper05 said:
A few vaccines have been introduced but the majority of the drugs doctors prescribe are bullshit. High blood pressure and high cholestoral meds are biggest money making drug/scam ever in history.
Rather than change your diet and exercise they give you a pill that you have take everyday for the rest or your life.




Agreed, but few people take the responsibility to change their lifestyle and diet. Many look for a quick fix. This isn't the fault of the drug industry, it's people being lazy.

The alternative is to NOT take the medication and die sooner.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: Simisu]
    #6415717 - 01/01/07 02:39 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Simisu said:
what saddens me most is the fact that big pharmaceutical companies make us believe we're sick all the time,




How about I test this statement:

Do you believe that you are sick "all the time"?

I agree that there is a drug pushing aspect to the drug industry. Part of the problem stems from identifying new health problems. We can't say that just because yesterday nobody noticed health problem X, but not we do, that health problem X doesn't exist. In some cases, problem X seems dubious and just plain old made up (like male menopause). In other cases, like identifying new viruses or types of cancer, the problems are legitimate.

I guess it comes down to the fact that the health and drug industries aren't restricted to merely saving people's lives on an emergency basis. Some branches of medicine aren't at all medically necessary, but I doubt most people would object to them (for example, anesthesiology isn't necessary, but I don't think anyone would complain that anesthesiology is some conspiracy to sell drugs).

So, there's obviously a problem when it comes to selling drugs for profits, but to accuse everyone involved in the drug industry of being a corrupt, heartless jackass is just wrong (innocent until proven guilty). For the cynics, I do assure you that there are tons and tons of genuinely concerned individuals working in the health and drug industries, either for government agencies, drug companies, universities, etc.

Edited by Chemiker (01/01/07 04:05 PM)

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: dmthead420]
    #6415722 - 01/01/07 02:42 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dmthead420 said:
You are obviously some ignorant fool that does not give a fuck about this earth or your ancestors..




You have absolute no right to say that to me. I care about this earth a lot. I care about the origins of humanity. HOW DARE YOU! You have no right to say this.

You are talking to the SON OF THE DEAN OF UMDNJ one of the biggest western medical schools in the country

It doesn't matter who you are. That doesn't make you right. Facts speak for themselves.

People like you are the ones that killed millions the indians and burn the temples from asia , europe, to north america.

WHAT THE FUCK? You're practically accusing me of genocide? How fucking dare you.

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: dmthead420]
    #6415727 - 01/01/07 02:44 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dmthead420 said:
ERRR they found it in nature fool how do you think they discoverd it?




I made a chemical in a lab that has never before been found in nature. There is no reason to think that it won't be found in nature in the future.

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: dmthead420]
    #6415734 - 01/01/07 02:46 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dmthead420 said:
hey sorry bout that but u see these people are the cause i am the reaction ..




What the fuck is wrong with you? I'm the cause? TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS.

You can't tell me that it's people like me who commit mass murder. Fuck you. In my first thread I made it goddamn well clear that I care about human beings and I believe that I'm doing the world good. If you disagree with my approach, then why not try to "enlighten" about what I'm doing wrong. I do care about other people. The fact that you're equating me with mass murderers means that you doubt that I care for people. You have no right to say that I don't care about the earth or don't about other humans or don't care about people. I have my beliefs and I help people in the way I see fit. You fucking disgust me.

Edited by Chemiker (01/01/07 03:36 PM)

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #6415739 - 01/01/07 02:49 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheHateCamel said:
Plastic surgery.

2600 years ago, folks.

You heard it here first.




It's true. There are cases of mummies being found with prosthetic toes. I guess this isn't quite "cosmetic". . .

Nonetheless, the simple fact remains that modern medicine has made this world a far better place than the medicine of thousands of years ago. I don't doubt that medical procedures existed thousands of years ago, but medicine now is obviously better.

I don't see how this guy can call me "unresearched." How does he know what I research? I'm so deeply offended by the original poster.

Edited by Chemiker (01/01/07 03:36 PM)

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: daytripper05]
    #6415750 - 01/01/07 02:54 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper05 said:
Fact: It is ILLEGAL for the FDA to approve anything natural.





Can you cite the relevant law?

Obviously you are wrong because there are a number of naturally occuring, FDA approved drugs. Four obvious examples: caffeine, codeine, quinine and morphine. All four are found in nature. All four are FDA approved.

Also, the US does not make up the entire world. The FDA only has jurisdiction in the USA. The FDA cannot stop scientific and medical journals from around the world from publishing. If there is some miricle cure all and the FDA is against it, there's nothing to stop people in other countries from publishing this information.

Now, I read two journals relevant to these issues: The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine and The Journal of Natural Compounds. Nobody here has any right to say that I'm unresearched. I do my research. If you believe that my research is inaccurate, then please don't equate me with murderers, accuse me of not caring about the environment or humanity. If you genuinely believe that I'm being misled by something, then please point me the right direction. Making such disgusting accusations at me is intolerable, wrong and ignorant in itself.

Seriously, dmthead420, I think you should apologize to me for saying that it's people like me who commit mass murder. Do you have any idea what a disgusting and unjustifiable statement that is?

Reason: You cannot patent anything that comes from the earth. When you don't have a patent everyone can sell it thus lowering the price.

All the drugs available are to treat illness. We find nothing that provided cures. Look at the business plan of drug companies. Since when wasn't it the sole job to make money? Aren't drug companies traded on the stock market?

And yes I have seen shows on the history channel that Mayans (or Aztecs?) were the first to perform brain surgery without modern antistetics.



Edited by Chemiker (01/01/07 03:59 PM)

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: daytripper05]
    #6415759 - 01/01/07 03:02 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

daytripper05 said:
Rather than change your diet and exercise they give you a pill that you have take everyday for the rest or your life.

Now you listen to me. This is exactly why I'm totally disgusted by the ignorant replies I'm getting.

I have two friends who got their BSc degrees in chemistry at the same university I did (which is where I met them). They have both gone on to become naturopathic doctors. The three of us share the attitude that it is better to try altering one's diet, exercise, sleep, etc. BEFORE taking a drug. The problem is that doctors can't force people to change how they eat, sleep and exercise. The patient has to comply. Don't blame the chemicals for this.

If you ignorant people even bothered asking me what my approach is in detail, you'd probably find that I have a lot more in common with you than you think. However, to make ridiculous assertions about widespread conspiracies and then to accuse me of such disgustingly villanous behaviour just because I disagree with you, is really childish. I don't just make my knowledge up. If you want to come to where I work, and call 500 chemists liars to their faces, then go ahead. That doesn't mean that they are liars. We genuinely believe that we're good for the world and I think we have good reason to believe that.


But I feel 10x better without any of them.

Feeling good is not the same thing as being healthy. If not taking drugs makes you feel better, then I'd suggest that has something to do with your belief system and nothing to do with your health.

Have you ever actually taken these drugs?


Quote:


Not only that. the negative side effects almost always outway the possible.




I think you meant 'positive' but that is just so absolutely wrong. You disgust me. I don't know how you make such broad, ignorant claims.

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: Chemiker]
    #6415806 - 01/01/07 03:29 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I have never in my life been so singularly insulted by one person. I have never killed anyone or burnt down sacred buildings. I do not advocate genocide. I think genocide is a horrific crime.

As a scientist, global warming and industrial pollution deeply concern me. I am glad that I'm a chemist because I believe that I could be of potential help if there were some serious environmental crisis. I am appalled at being accused of not caring about the earth. I think my first post made it clear that I do respect the earth. I love riding my mountain bike and canoeing. I plant trees, flowers, etc.

I love human beings and I think that my first post made that clear to. I said that I genuinely believe that I am doing good for the world.

If someone happens to think that my approach is misguided, then they shouldn't accuse me of being a wanna-be mass murderer or an uncaring sociopath. If someone thinks that my chemical approach is misguided, then shouldn't education be the key? Shouldn't they at least say, "No, that's not the way to do it. Here's how." Shouldn't they try showing me that I'm wrong?

I have asked dmthead420 to back up what he said in a PM. In this thread he said he could back up everything he said, so I would like him to do so. I would also like an apology for being equated with mass murderers and uncaring sociopaths. Obviously such strong assertions have deeply upset and offended me.

I realize that I often contradict people, but when I do, I make the best effort I can to back up what I say. I try to show people that they are wrong, if I think they're wrong (that's how science works - it is not about textbook knowledge - when science has taught you something you should feel that experiences has taught it to you).

I am an open-minded person. Scientists generally have to be, even if it can seem otherwise. My whole job consists of proposing hypotheses and then finding out that they're wrong.

Edited by Chemiker (01/01/07 04:00 PM)

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InvisibleAcyl
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: Chemiker]
    #6415830 - 01/01/07 03:41 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

:rockon:

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Offlineflower_child
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: Acyl]
    #6415885 - 01/01/07 04:05 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I wish that this thread hadn't turned into a flame war. I'm rather concerned about this, since if this is true my studies to become an herbalist are all in vain since all the herbs and plants I would be using will be criminalized.

Too bad we can't all just get along.


--------------------
Today while walking up the stairs
I met a man who wasn't there
He wasn't there again today
Oh how I wish he'd stay away

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OfflinePlaceholder
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: Chemiker]
    #6415889 - 01/01/07 04:06 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

HITLER!
:grin:

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OfflineNewbieS
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: dmthead420]
    #6415974 - 01/01/07 04:56 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Good post :thumbup:

The older I get, the more I wish any and all food was just...natural.  The healthiest people are those that stick to real food, and I can sacrifice taste and a longer shelf life for food that's better for me.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: Newbie]
    #6416017 - 01/01/07 05:16 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NewbieShroomie said:
I can sacrifice taste and a longer shelf life for food that's better for me.




natural foods generaly taste much better than processed crap in a box

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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: dmthead420]
    #6416038 - 01/01/07 05:22 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

yeah....that's why the life expectancy was like 45 back then. hahahah

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OfflineChemiker
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Re: Exposing the Food and Drug Industry! [Re: Newbie]
    #6416094 - 01/01/07 05:45 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NewbieShroomie said:
Good post :thumbup:

The older I get, the more I wish any and all food was just...natural. 




One could easily argue that food hasn't been "natural" for 11000 years or so.  We have been selectively breeding crops for about 11000 years.  Is that "natural"?

I agree with prisoner1 also.  Processed food tastes like garbage.  Preservatives aren't added for flavour.  Preservatives are added to make sure that food can be stored.  If you want all of your food to be "natural", then you have to pay a premium or grow your own.

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