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OfflineSpooge
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Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest
    #6372723 - 12/15/06 02:26 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

A snippet...

The Brain Pacemaker

"I was trapped in depression for 7 years," recalls Carole Franklin, 49.  "Life was like a nightmare."  Three years ago she attempted suicide, taking "enough tranquillizers to kill an elephant."  Then her psychiatrist in Barrie, Ont., heard about a new study in Toronto involving deep brain stimulation (DBS).  Franklin jumped at the chance to be included.

Every year 1.6 million Canadians are diagnosed with depression.  though most get better, about 250,000 are not helped by current treatments.  For them, DBS is a ray of hope.  It uses tiny electrodes surgically implanted in the brain; they are connected by wires to a pacemaker in the chest, which sends electrical impulses to the brain and regulates its activity.  A toronto team-led by Dr. Helen Mayberg, a neurologist; Dr. Sidney Kennedy, a psychiatrist; and Dr. Andres Lozano, a neurosurgeon- was the first to use it for depression.  The goal of the treatment is to turn down activity in one part of the brain, called the cingulate 25, which is overactive in some depressed patients.

Franklin was the third person to have this innovative treatment.  It took some experimentation to find the best settings for her, but when her doctors finally hit the sweet spot, she felt better immediately.  "The plain, antiseptic-looking clinical room seemed brighter and more interesting," she says.  "I felt normal."  Shortly after, Franklin felt well enough to start her own business, a boarding facility for cats.

By August 2006 the Toronto team had operated on 16 people.  The treatment worked for 11 of them.  Several returned to work after being out of the labour force for years-one patient had been unemployed for 7 years.  "For people in this category, that's remarkable," says Kennedy.

Readers Digest, December 2006 pg 73


Thoughts?  :smirk:


I myself find it so utterly ridiculous that this is what humans have come to.  Our collective conscious is so battered, bruised and weakened, we are now at a point in time that we are putting electrodes in our brain to dull activity in the "active parts".

Does anyone see how ridiculously wrong this is?

First of all, I think labelling depression as a disease like cancer, like you had no choice in the matter, is utter bullshit.  Let's just take ALL the responsibility away from the individual hey?

Second, it's ok to plant foreign devices in our brain and heart, dulling activity...but it's not ok to swallow a fungus that has been tried and true for thousands of years?  :rolleyes:

Quote:

"The plain, antiseptic-looking clinical room seemed brighter and more interesting," she says.  "I felt normal."  Shortly after, Franklin felt well enough to start her own business, a boarding facility for cats.

By August 2006 the Toronto team had operated on 16 people.  The treatment worked for 11 of them.





Gee, sounds like something I've said after most of my trips.  And gee, don't those odds look as accurate as the ones for healthy psychotherapy psychedelic use?  Out of all the people I've met that really get what psychedelics are about, I'd say it's fair to say that 11 out of 16 of them seemed "bettered"(in the loose way they use it, especially).

I hate so many things about our controlled society and this is just one of the many tiny things that shows us humanity is heading down the drain.  </rant>


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OfflineUlcerPentacidis
psilophile

Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 969
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
different strokes for different folks my friend.... [Re: Spooge]
    #6372786 - 12/15/06 03:43 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

i wouldn't be so quick to judge when people who are suffering are getting some kind of relief, even if you see it as objectionable. whether or not depression is an actual disease, or something we can choose to shoo away with the right state of mind, people still suffer from it, period. i think if you were to take a moment to educate yourself on the subject, you'd find depression can truly hold a person in its grips no matter how much they want to feel ok. depression and bipolar disorder are serious afflictions, they are hereditary, and if you took the time to understand them, i think you'd have second thoughts about judging sufferers so harshly. i thank the stars i was blessed with a properly functioning brain to govern my perception, mood, and motor control. some aren't so lucky, and its a damn shame when someone ends up on the short end of the stick in those regards. i think it speaks volumes about the depseration these people feel, choosing such an invasive surgery in the hopes of finding normalacy. maybe these people could've helped themselves with psychedelics, but they chose a different path, as is there choice. i'm surprised to see a rant of this nature from one who would imply they really get what psychedelics are about, but you must have missed the lesson on tolerance. with that said, let he who is desperate enough to feel happy find his way, even if it involves surgical augmentation.


--------------------
µgrammar


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Invisiblebelligerent
Degenerate stoner
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Registered: 10/31/06
Posts: 526
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Spooge]
    #6372790 - 12/15/06 03:55 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I totally agree with you. :thumbup:

I am so sick of hearing about how bad my "drug use" is from people who pop anti-depressants and Xanax like it's fucking candy.  Something tells me that the pot and shrooms are doing me a lot more good than their legal drugs and are probably less harmful.

Not to mention that it's turning this country (and Canada too, I guess) into a bunch of whiny little pussies who pop a pill at the first sign of adversity.

Ugh...I better stop or I'll go on a rant of my own.  :mad2:


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Spooge]
    #6372807 - 12/15/06 04:50 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I think you know little about depression and you're quite judgmental of those who are crippled with the disease. you seem very self-righteous.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Spooge]
    #6372833 - 12/15/06 05:43 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

entityexperiment said:
First of all, I think labeling depression as a disease like cancer, like you had no choice in the matter, is utter bullshit.




You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Chronic Depression is simply a defect in how the brain produces its chemical make-up. If a pill cant help balance your chemistry out and an electrode can......how is that bad?

Quote:

Let's just take ALL the responsibility away from the individual hey?




Is a person responsible for their need of glasses. Did they do something that made them need glasses.....of course not, they were born with bad eyes. Some people are born with bad eyes some with bad hearts and some with bad brains.

By trying to correct their problems these people are taking responsibility for their problems and trying to make life better for themselves.

Quote:

Second, it's OK to plant foreign devices in our brain and heart, dulling activity...but it's not OK to swallow a fungus that has been tried and true for thousands of years?  :rolleyes:

"The plain, antiseptic-looking clinical room seemed brighter and more interesting," she says.  "I felt normal."  Shortly after, Franklin felt well enough to start her own business, a boarding facility for cats.

By August 2006 the Toronto team had operated on 16 people.  The treatment worked for 11 of them.



Gee, sounds like something I've said after most of my trips.  And gee, don't those odds look as accurate as the ones for healthy psychotherapy psychedelic use?  Out of all the people I've met that really get what psychedelics are about, I'd say it's fair to say that 11 out of 16 of them seemed "bettered"(in the loose way they use it, especially).





Now you're starting to sound like a Right-wing Christian Fundamentalist.....

If you don't believe Jebus is the savior of man, your doomed to a fiery pit

Just because psychedelics have helped you doesn't mean that they can help everyone. Some people will actually get worse if they take them, not better.

Quote:

I hate so many things about our controlled society and this is just one of the many tiny things that shows us humanity is heading down the drain.  </rant>




How is it a controlled society if people are constantly being given different choices for their problems?


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Offlinehawksapprentice
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Vvellum]
    #6372834 - 12/15/06 05:48 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with Vvellum. Not all forms of depression are psychological. There are physiological types as well. Sometimes people will have a deficiency of serotonin levels, or other chemical imbalances, in the brain and this causes someone to be depressed. And it is not something that just changing your attitude is going to fix. Or therapy for that matter.


Sometimes it does take an anti-depressant. Or an anti-depressant mixed with therapy.


It seems to me that there is a lot of stigma surrounding anti-depressants. It's not always xanax or Valium that they are being put on. A lot of the drugs they give may not have any type of effect someone who doesn't have depression.


By automatically judging people for trying to be happy with life through ways that you don't understand you are becoming the group that judges your for your drug use.


--------------------
"I celebrate the Earth, my home, my mother, my grave, and as long as men are Man they must, if they would preserve the integrated being, do the same---[and preserve]--this rank casual hungry smelly sweaty lusting transitory body, my oozy pulpy liquid-bag-swollen body, bones, blood, hair glands, my bejeweled sex; I love and celebrate it all.  never to let men forget that they are animals as much as gods---that is one thing I shall say."

  Edward Abbey


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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Vvellum]
    #6374118 - 12/15/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Vvellum said:
I think you know little about depression and you're quite judgmental of those who are crippled with the disease. you seem very self-righteous. 




On the contrary, I was diagnosed with so called "depression" for a few years(as in, I stopped going to the flake and wouldn't entertain his idea of anti-deppresants).

I still can't believe I'm having people argue how it's not helped.


Whoever made the glasses analogy....are you serious?  :thumbdown:  That's exactly what I think is bullshit in the first place.  Comparing that having depression is like being born with bad eyes.  Utter bullshit.

Niteowl says:
Quote:

Just because psychedelics have helped you doesn't mean that they can help everyone. Some people will actually get worse if they take them, not better.





Hence the reasons I said odds.  Obviously this treatment doesn't help everyone too.  I've met a lot of people who have used psychedelics and in my OWN experience I'd have to say roughly 11/16 had there lives bettered in someway when depressed.  Did you not read that part?

Quote:

How is it a controlled society if people are constantly being given different choices for their problems?




This rant was more of a rant about the fact that we can fuck with people's brain chemistry with electrodes, which I made abundantly clear that I'm against, but we can't eat  psychoactive fungus...

How is that not a form of control by society?

Quote:

By trying to correct their problems these people are taking responsibility for their problems and trying to make life better for themselves.




If these people truly would be wanting to correct their problems, then they WOULD be taking responsibility and not placing it on electrodes dulling brain activity.

I'm not talking from the dark people,  I know that nasty place the mind keeps you.  It IS quite horrible and it takes a bit of sacrifice to do something about it.  I could probably be diagnosed with everything under the sun from bipolar, to chronically obsessed to OBC......I've realized the mind is very powerful at making change.

And supporting depression by calling it a "disease", and supporting it even further with such easy way out solutions as electrodes in your brain dulling activity, is wrong.  That's just how I feel.

hawksapprentice says
Quote:

Not all forms of depression are psychological. There are physiological types as well. Sometimes people will have a deficiency of serotonin levels, or other chemical imbalances, in the brain and this causes someone to be depressed. And it is not something that just changing your attitude is going to fix. Or therapy for that matter.




Like I said above, I know all to well about this.  But yes, the brain can change levels and send signals in new paths...and it doesn't take a pill to do it and certainely not electrodes implanted in the brain either.

Quote:

By automatically judging people for trying to be happy with life through ways that you don't understand you are becoming the group that judges your for your drug use.




I never once said or implied that I judge the individual.  I truly can understand what most of them are going through. No, what I'm doing is judging the root of the problem in the first place.  The human consciousness is absoulutely crippled.  I'm judging the entire west civilization and government.  I'm judging all these flaky psychiatrists who make new ailments everyday...just feeding the bullshit in the system, keeping that much more control in the grand scheme of things.

I'm judging, and this was my main point of the post, the fact that these people are allowed the solution of electrodes implanted in their brain and hearts to dull activity in a certain part of the brain, but I'm not allowed a tried and true medicine that has be used and documented by humans for thousands of years, to up activity in my brain.

Bullshit.  :thumbdown:


Edited by entityexperiment (12/15/06 01:23 PM)


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Invisiblememes
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Spooge]
    #6374139 - 12/15/06 01:21 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

i think the procedure is a good thing. some people can't help depression, and i'm glad if this procedure can help them. whoever made this thread sound like jackass condemning these people who are just trying to get over a sickness.

you just sound ignorant is all.


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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: memes]
    #6374163 - 12/15/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whoever made this thread sound like jackass condemning these people who are just trying to get over a sickness.





I don't know how much more clear I can be...

I'm not condemning any individual and not once did I take that approach. I did say that in my opinion, I feel that some of these people need to take intiative and responsibility to fix their problems, instead of relying on shit like this. I did. And others I know did.

I'm condemning the bigger picture, as stated above.

I'm condemning the fact I can't try and get over my sicknesses with something that has helped FAR more people for many years, than this experimental technology


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: different strokes for different folks my friend.... [Re: UlcerPentacidis]
    #6374179 - 12/15/06 01:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

UlcerPentacidis said:
i wouldn't be so quick to judge when people who are suffering are getting some kind of relief, even if you see it as objectionable.  whether or not depression is an actual disease, or something we can choose to shoo away with the right state of mind, people still suffer from it, period.  i think if you were to take a moment to educate yourself on the subject, you'd find depression can truly hold a person in its grips no matter how much they want to feel ok.  depression and bipolar disorder are serious afflictions, they are hereditary, and if you took the time to understand them, i think you'd have second thoughts about judging sufferers so harshly.  i thank the stars i was blessed with a properly functioning brain to govern my perception, mood, and motor control.  some aren't so lucky, and its a damn shame when someone ends up on the short end of the stick in those regards.  i think it speaks volumes about the depseration these people feel, choosing such an invasive surgery in the hopes of finding normalacy.  maybe these people could've helped themselves with psychedelics, but they chose a different path, as is there choice.  i'm surprised to see a rant of this nature from one who would imply they really get what psychedelics are about, but you must have missed the lesson on tolerance.  with that said, let he who is desperate enough to feel happy find his way, even if it involves surgical augmentation.



Couldn't agree more  :thumbup:

It could use a paragraph here and there though  :wink:


--------------------
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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Spooge]
    #6374630 - 12/15/06 04:29 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

entityexperiment said:
Quote:

Vvellum said:
I think you know little about depression and you're quite judgmental of those who are crippled with the disease. you seem very self-righteous. 




On the contrary, I was diagnosed with so called "depression" for a few years(as in, I stopped going to the flake and wouldn't entertain his idea of anti-deppresants).




Again you assume that because you got over depression one time that everyone else should be able to do the same.......this is ignorance in its finest form......"If it worked for me them it must work for you too" :whatever:

Quote:

Whoever made the glasses analogy....are you serious?  :thumbdown:  That's exactly what I think is bullshit in the first place.  Comparing that having depression is like being born with bad eyes.  Utter bullshit.




So is it your opinion that everyone on the planet is born with a perfectly functioning brain? Are there no instances of defective brains in your little fantasy world?

Where I live there are no perfect people, much less a perfect brain. Your assumption that brains can't be defective is retarded.


Quote:

Niteowl says:
Just because psychedelics have helped you doesn't mean that they can help everyone. Some people will actually get worse if they take them, not better.


Hence the reasons I said odds.  Obviously this treatment doesn't help everyone too.  I've met a lot of people who have used psychedelics and in my OWN experience I'd have to say roughly 11/16 had there lives bettered in someway when depressed.




Obviously there is no universal treatment for any ailment, and there has to be different cures for different people. If someone is suffering from Chronic Depression and can't find any peace from any other cure......why is it wrong for them to try a radical new treatment if it helps them?????


Quote:

How is it a controlled society if people are constantly being given different choices for their problems?

This rant was more of a rant about the fact that we can fuck with people's brain chemistry with electrodes, which I made abundantly clear that I'm against, but we can't eat  psychoactive fungus...

How is that not a form of control by society?




Obviously they haven't taken away your ability to consume psychedelics, since you seem to have taken them quite often and seemed to have missed some of their more important lessons.

Quote:

By trying to correct their problems these people are taking responsibility for their problems and trying to make life better for themselves.

If these people truly would be wanting to correct their problems, then they WOULD be taking responsibility and not placing it on electrodes dulling brain activity.




How arrogant you have become to assume that you could understand the sufferings of someone you never met. Just because you have suffered from depression and got over it doesn't mean that everyone will be able to do the same thing.


Quote:

And supporting depression by calling it a "disease", and supporting it even further with such easy way out solutions as electrodes in your brain dulling activity, is wrong.  That's just how I feel.




Some feel it is wrong for you to consume psychedelics, yet you still do it. It is a free world and for you to condemn people fro trying to find peace with their life is just wrong. Thats just how I feel.

Quote:

hawksapprentice says
Not all forms of depression are psychological. There are physiological types as well. Sometimes people will have a deficiency of serotonin levels, or other chemical imbalances, in the brain and this causes someone to be depressed. And it is not something that just changing your attitude is going to fix. Or therapy for that matter.

Like I said above, I know all to well about this.  But yes, the brain can change levels and send signals in new paths...and it doesn't take a pill to do it and certainly not electrodes implanted in the brain either.




Again just because you were able to get over depression w/out drugs what makes you think that other people can do the same?

Oh yea, I forgot, you believe that all brains are perfect. :rolleyes:

Quote:

By automatically judging people for trying to be happy with life through ways that you don't understand you are becoming the group that judges your for your drug use.

I never once said or implied that I judge the individual.




No you said.....
If these people truly would be wanting to correct their problems, then they WOULD be taking responsibility and not placing it on electrodes dulling brain activity.
....sounds pretty judgmental to me.

Quote:

I'm judging, and this was my main point of the post, the fact that these people are allowed the solution of electrodes implanted in their brain and hearts to dull activity in a certain part of the brain, but I'm not allowed a tried and true medicine that has be used and documented by humans for thousands of years, to up activity in my brain.




Now we get to the real issue at hand here.

You are jealous.
Jealous of the fact that science is coming up with ways to help people live a normal life, and you can't seem to find any joy with your precious psychedelics.........

...maybe you should try some anti-depressants.....sounds like you haven't fully recovered from your struggle with it.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineWakeboardrB
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: niteowl]
    #6374704 - 12/15/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

All of the posts in this thread are awesome!

Except the ones made by the original poster. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Same thing happened to me when I played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. They found me in an alley in Burbank trying to re-enter the earth's atmosphere in an old refrigerator box.


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Spooge]
    #6374717 - 12/15/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Embrace the technological changes humanity is experiencing. You're either part of the solution or part of the pavement.


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Offlinerandomdude123456
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: DNKYD]
    #6374908 - 12/15/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

This whole mushroom vs electrodes thing is completely irrelevant. These are doctors looking to help people live better normal lives. There is doctors out there studying how mushrooms can help people cure their cluster headaches. You shouldn't be attacking this treatment with obviously so little knowledge on the vast subject of depression. The government is the ones who made mushrooms illegal, NOT the doctors. For you to just group "society" as 1 single entity is not only ignorant but its just WRONG. This country is split 50/50 on almost every issue there is. Also, niteowl, great points you made, I'm on your side with this issue.


--------------------
just think about the future.


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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: niteowl]
    #6376020 - 12/16/06 03:31 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

You my sir, are the most ignorant person I've met. You love to play the word games.

Quote:

Some feel it is wrong for you to consume psychedelics, yet you still do it. It is a free world and for you to condemn people fro trying to find peace with their life is just wrong. Thats just how I feel.





Never once condemned. Please find some new accusations. I CONDEMN the fact that I cannot legally ingest a psychedelic, but it's ok to put electrodes in the brain?

Quote:

Obviously there is no universal treatment for any ailment, and there has to be different cures for different people. If someone is suffering from Chronic Depression and can't find any peace from any other cure......why is it wrong for them to try a radical new treatment if it helps them?????




EXACTLY! What IS wrong with me trying what works for me and doing it legally? Like I said, it seems to be ok to put metal shit in our brain to dull activity, but not ok for me to consume psychedelics.

Quote:

Again you assume that because you got over depression one time that everyone else should be able to do the same.......this is ignorance in its finest form......"If it worked for me them it must work for you too"




Again, your nice little twist on my words. That was in response to someone saying I had no idea what these people go through. Fuck that. I know pretty damn well and gave an example of it.


Quote:

So is it your opinion that everyone on the planet is born with a perfectly functioning brain? Are there no instances of defective brains in your little fantasy world?





It's my opinion that there are many ways to fix a "faulty functioning" brain, and if sticking electrodes in it to dull activity is acceptable, why not the use of psychedelics?

Quote:

Obviously they haven't taken away your ability to consume psychedelics, since you seem to have taken them quite often and seemed to have missed some of their more important lessons




You once so craftly dodged my question and evaded my main point of the post in the first place....

Obviously, psychedelic therapy has no support. I and others are not legally permitted and supported(as the people dulling activity in certain parts of the brain with electrodes are supported) for usage.

Where is there NOT control in that?

Wake up bud. It seems you, not I, are living in a fantasy world.

Quote:

How arrogant you have become to assume that you could understand the sufferings of someone you never met. Just because you have suffered from depression and got over it doesn't mean that everyone will be able to do the same thing.





If that is true, we are equally as arrogant. For you to assume I have no idea of these "sufferings". Who said I'm free and clear of it?

Quote:

Some feel it is wrong for you to consume psychedelics, yet you still do it. It is a free world and for you to condemn people fro trying to find peace with their life is just wrong. Thats just how I feel.





Once again, you ignorantly dogde the main theme behind what I was saying. I never condemned...Though I suggested, SOME people need to actually try and take some responsibility, I actually condemned the system. It's been abundantly clear that I'm pissed at the whole system and that's what the entire rant is about.

I wouldn't give a shit if some people thought it was wrong, as long as I was able to do it legally and with support from medical science(which to me is a crock of shit not to consider such tools).

Quote:

You are jealous.
Jealous of the fact that science is coming up with ways to help people live a normal life, and you can't seem to find any joy with your precious psychedelics.........




Now were ARE getting back to the main point of the post.

You might as well tape your mouth shut and talk through your ass, because that is the worst response I've ever heard in my life. You had no intelligent though process toward what I was saying, that's for sure. Can't find any joy with pyschedelics? I've experienced death and rebirth. Sometimes it's hell and sometimes it ain't. I've always walked away with something to smile about. Seriously man, control your verbal dirreaha.

But yes, I AM jealous. I'm jealous of the fact that "science" comes up with this so called awesome idea to stick electrodes in peoples brains who can't be happy, to dull their brain into being happy and it's all supported, yet me or whatever joe blow down the street can't use something else...and natural organism that can CREATE activity in the brain. Sure, it may not work for everyone, just like this treatment, but shouldn't it be equally as supported and talked about?

If you want to argue, you best do it with this paragraph above and this one only.

I wasn't here to debate so much the fact that I personally think the procedure is bullshit, but the fact it's so accepted while other froms of therapy, such as mushroom use(which has been around for SO damn long) ISN'T? Where's the fairness in that?

How can a person not feeled controlled or at least stiffed by "the man"?

I'm not arguing with your one track, manipulative mind anymore on the topic of "depression".

If this arguement is to continue, it will be at the point at hand...which I experessed numerous times since the beginning.

Quote:

But yes, I AM jealous. I'm jealous of the fact that "science" comes up with this so called awesome idea to stick electrodes in peoples brains who can't be happy, to dull their brain into being happy and it's all supported, yet me or whatever joe blow down the street can't use something else...and natural organism that can CREATE activity in the brain. Sure, it may not work for everyone, just like this treatment, but shouldn't it be equally as supported and talked about?




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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: randomdude123456]
    #6376026 - 12/16/06 03:33 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

This whole mushroom vs electrodes thing is completely irrelevant




Are you in the right topic?

That's exactly what my rant was about. 2/3rd of my original post concerned this idea.


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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: DNKYD]
    #6376059 - 12/16/06 04:02 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Embrace the technological changes humanity is experiencing.




On a side note, there is merit in this comment.

I do admit, I'm not very open to technology. doesn't mean i'm ignorant to the facts, actually I keep quite up to date on a lot of it, but I don't know if any good can come from a lot of it.

I mean sure, on the surface it really might be helping, but I think it's making things to quick, to simple, to easy. I've been brought up that you need to get dirty to be clean type thing.

doesn't mean there are great things to come from it though.


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Offlinepsychonautix
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Spooge]
    #6376103 - 12/16/06 04:52 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

To each their own...

some people find their way through psychadellics.... others find their peace through more mechanical methods.

No one is in the position to declare one more suitable or acceptable for any given person's progress.

Although I dont see the technique used by these doctors as being truely effective (it reminds me of how Thomas Edison invented the light bulb, tons of trial and error.... ), I do regonize that they have stumbled across something that seems to work. Good for them...

Most people who havent had to deal with depression, or a brain that functions abnormally dont really understand what life can be. And its not their fault either... its just beyond their perspective.

Its cool though, just another obstacle we've been placed here to overcome. And eventually we will...

In the meantime, dont trip out over such things, eventually everyone will find the right path...


--------------------
Elevate Organically.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: Spooge]
    #6376161 - 12/16/06 06:35 AM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Grow the fuck up.

You're pissed off because psychedelics are illegal so you're whining about new ways for depressed people to get some help.

:whatever:

In your first post you came off as an ass.
When you make a statement like....
I think labelling depression as a disease like cancer, like you had no choice in the matter, is utter bullshit.
....you sound like you're condemning people for having a condition they have no control over (like having glasses or a bad heart). Some people can't live a normal life due to a chemical imbalance and need some kind of help. If they can get help form a pill....good for them. If they can get help from an electrode in their brain.....good for them. If they can get help from consuming psychedelics.....good for them. Claiming that society is trying to control you is ridiculous.

I agree with you that it is retarded to support prohibition in America, and something needs to be done about it. Bitching about new ways for depressed people to get help is NOT the best way to go about it.

Every society has some form of control in it, or it wouldn't be a society, it would be anarchy. Our society has way more freedoms than most other nations on the planet. Consider yourself luck to have been born here rather than some where in the Middle East.

I also agree with you that most of the people taking anti-depressants really don't need them....some do.....most don't. I too have had my struggle with depression and, through meditation I turned my life around.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineSpooge
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Re: Medical Breakthroughs - Reader Digest [Re: niteowl]
    #6376848 - 12/16/06 01:43 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

When you make a statement like....
I think labelling depression as a disease like cancer, like you had no choice in the matter, is utter bullshit.
....you sound like you're condemning people for having a condition they have no control over (like having glasses or a bad heart). Some people can't live a normal life due to a chemical imbalance and need some kind of help.




Hey, that's my perspective on the matter.  That wasn't the topic at hand, but I slipped in my opinion that I DO think it's bullshit...
regardless what you or medical science says.  I do admit, there are a rare amount of people that could use some sort of drug or procedure to help.  I can't stand the fact that so many new techniques and anti-depressant drugs are supported in held in high regard by most, while others are frowned on.  One thing I think we have agreed on is that, the individual should be able to do what works for them.  Not having someone stopping them at the one door of choices and going, "no you can't go here...it's frowned upon, even if it will help".

Quote:

If they can get help form a pill....good for them. If they can get help from an electrode in their brain.....good for them. If they can get help from consuming psychedelics.....good for them. Claiming that society is trying to control you is ridiculous.






You just have a big brain fart?  I agree with you completely...whatever works for someone.  How come the first two are supported in ridiculous amounts, but the last one is not?  Your argument has so many holes, it's ridiculous.

Psychedelics make people really revaluate everything.  You can't keep everyone in a state of denial and fear if they all start thinking for themselves.  I truly think it's just another excuse to keep the psychedelics in the dark.

you go on to agree with me that they could help just as much as other techniques, drugs and procedures, yet you find no flaw in the fact that certain psychedelics carry huge felony charges and no support for their usage.  Where's the clinics doing psychotherapy with lsd this year and bragging about it in Reader's Digest, having everyone reading going "wow...that's so good"....just like these new procedures?

You and I both know that we live in a world where the government and other parts of society are putting restrictions on what you and I, as an individual, can use as tools to potentially better ourselves and our lives.

If you don't see control in that, you are more of a fool than I thought.

Quote:

Every society has some form of control in it, or it wouldn't be a society, it would be anarchy. Our society has way more freedoms than most other nations on the planet. Consider yourself luck to have been born here rather than some where in the Middle East.




I don't know why anyone would dispute this, I know I haven't.  Sure, we have more rights and privledges than the middle east for example.

But are you telling me that we as humans could not create a society where the collective goal was not money or power, but the well being and value of family?

Things are so twisted from the way they should be.  Money, greed and power is what makes us what we are.  Instead of stopping world hunger, we are instead actually supporting it to continue.

There is a better way to live harmoniously with one another...and the way society is constructed right now is doing the complete opposite.

Quote:

also agree with you that most of the people taking anti-depressants really don't need them....some do.....most don't. I too have had my struggle with depression and, through meditation I turned my life around.




Good for you  :thumbup:  Meditation helped me quite a bit also.  It's been a fair amount of time since I started regularly doing it and I think it is time soon.  I plan on experiment with new types of meditation.


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