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OfflineSirTripAlot
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History of Genocide Under Debate
    #6368008 - 12/13/06 11:18 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

AHHHHH, how refreshing! Send this aspiring American to the debate!


KKK's David Duke Tells Iran Holocaust Conference That Gas Chambers Not Used to Kill Jews

Dec. 12: David Duke, former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, and former state representative in Louisiana, attends a conference on the Holocaust in Tehran.


TEHRAN, Iran — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's conference questioning the Holocaust came to an end Tuesday, but not before hearing former KKK Imperial Wizard David Duke say that gas chambers were not used to kill Jews.

"The Zionists have used the Holocaust as a weapon to deny the rights of the Palestinians and cover up the crimes of Israel," Duke told a gathering of nearly 70 "researchers" in Tehran at Ahmadinejad's invitation.

"This conference has an incredible impact on Holocaust studies all over the world," said Duke, a former state representative in Louisiana who twice ran for president.

"The Holocaust is the device used as the pillar of Zionist imperialism, Zionist aggression, Zionist terror and Zionist murder," Duke told The Associated Press.

Also at the end of the conference, Mohammad Ali Ramini, an Ahmadinejad adviser who has called the Holocaust a "myth," announced that he will chair a committee to find "the truth on the genocide of Jews."

Other members of the committee will be Robert Fuerisson, a French professor who denies the existence of gas chambers, along with Holocaust deniers from Syria, Switzerland, Austria, Canada, the United States and Bahrain.

Tuesday's speeches included Ali Akbar Mohtashamipour, a former interior minister and one of the founders of Lebanese militia Hezbollah, who labeled the Holocaust as a "tale."

"All the studies and research carried out so far have proven that there is no reason to believe that the Holocaust ever occurred and that it is only a tale," he stated.

Austrian historian Wolfgang Froehlich, who served a two-year jail sentence in his home country for denying the Holocaust, did not read out his speech — which was handed out to participants — for fear of being jailed again. Denying the Holocaust is a crime in a dozen European countries, including Austria, where British historian David Irving was jailed in February for three years for denying the Holocaust.

Nabil Soleiman, an adviser to the ministry of religious affairs in Syria, said, "If the Holocaust ever occurred, it was a conspiracy against the Arab-Islamic world as today the Middle East is still paying the consequences."

Ahmadinejad opened Tuesday's session by thanking God that the Zionist regime was declining, telling conference participants, “its lifetime will be over and their interests as well as reputation will be endangered,” the Islamic Republican News Agency reported.

International condemnation continued to pour in against the government-sponsored conference in Tehran, which has drawn Holocaust deniers from around the world.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair said it was "shocking beyond belief" and called the conference "a symbol of sectarianism and hatred."

He said he saw little hope of engaging Iran in constructive action in the Middle East, saying, "I look around the region at the moment, and everything Iran is doing is negative."

The United States, which also condemned the gathering, has been considering whether to open a dialogue with Iran to get its help in calming neighboring Iraq. President George W. Bush has so far refused to approach Iran, accusing it of backing terrorism.

The White House condemned the gathering of Holocaust deniers in Tehran as "an affront to the entire civilized world as well as to the traditional Iranian values of tolerance and respect."

A statement from press secretary Tony Snow noted the meeting coincided with International Human Rights Week, which renews the pledges of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights drafted in the wake of World War II atrocities.

"The Iranian regime perversely seeks to call the historical fact of those atrocities into question and provide a platform for hatred," Snow said.

Earlier this year, Ahmadinejad described the Holocaust as a "myth" that has been used to impose the state of Israel on the Arab world and called for Israel to be wiped off the map.

"Ahmadinejad's Holocaust comment opened a new window in international relations on this issue. Twenty years ago, it was not possible to talk about [the] Holocaust and any scientific study was subject to punishment. This taboo has been broken, thanks to Mr. Ahmadinejad's initiative," Georges Theil of France told conference delegates on Tuesday.

Theil was convicted earlier this year in France for "contesting the truth of crimes against humanity" after he said the Nazis never used poison gas against Jews.

Michele Renouf, an Australian socialite supporter of "Holocaust skeptics," called Ahmadinejad "a hero" for opening a debate about the Holocaust. Renouf, a blonde former beauty queen, addressed the audience wearing a green robe and Islamic headscarf, abiding by Iranian law requiring women to cover their hair.

Frederick Toben, an Australian who in 1999 served jail time in Germany for his Holocaust views, told the conference in no uncertain terms that the number of Jews killed in Nazi death camps — an estimated 6 million — is a myth.

''The number of victims at the Auschwitz concentration camp could be about 2,007,'' Toben said. ''The railroad to the camp did not have enough capacity to transfer large numbers of Jews."

Among the 67 participants from 30 countries, who included some of Europe's most prominent Holocaust deniers, were two rabbis and four other members of the fringe group Jews United Against Zionism.

They were dressed in the traditional long black coats and black hats of ultra-Orthodox Jews. The group says the creation of the state of Israel violates Jewish law and argues that the Holocaust should not be used to justify its founding.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6368371 - 12/14/06 12:47 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Right there joining Chomsky when it comes to cozying up with violent extremist regimes, not like im saying the zionist lobby isnt powerful in Washington and uses their power in the cause of Israel, But smoozing around with a guy sitting on the largest oil and natural gas reserves and he needs "nuclear energy", no ones going to think of your opinion as being rational.


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6368787 - 12/14/06 03:03 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

but not before hearing former KKK Imperial Wizard David Duke say that gas chambers were not used to kill Jews.




I have always wondered what the big deal is about whether or not gas chambers were used by the NAZI's to kill Jews.

What difference does it make?

Millions of them were murdered and that is what is important to me, not the means of how they went about it.


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: gregorio]
    #6368811 - 12/14/06 03:11 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Haulicost deniers are lame.


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Agent 727
7


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Offlinemoho456
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: MAGnum]
    #6369547 - 12/14/06 10:45 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I think that if the Holocaust did in fact happen, it would be a terrible thing.

Although, I don't think anyone here has nearly enough information to make any substantiated claims for or against.

People strike down drugs out of ignorance, what if the Holocaust never did happen? What if all this time we shit all over the nazi's and arabs for no reason?

It would have been a convenient situation for the United states in a time of political and economic instability, a time when the country was

Extraordinary vulnerable to a Fascist Revolution.

Just a hypothesis, not denying or confirming anything.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: gregorio]
    #6369568 - 12/14/06 10:52 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gregorio said:
I have always wondered what the big deal is about whether or not gas chambers were used by the NAZI's to kill Jews.

What difference does it make?

Millions of them were murdered and that is what is important to me, not the means of how they went about it.



The big deal is that it was a war and many millions of people died. 6 million Jews were killed, but so were 17 million Germans (in total) and 25 million Russians (again, in total).

If the dead bodies are found malnourished, shot, injured, etc. then the holocaust deniers can claim that the deaths were an inevitable result of the war. Even starvation alone wouldn't be enough to prove the holocaust because of the vast amount of starvation in Ukraine, Lithuania, and other parts of what would become the Soviet Union. That's the argument that holocaust deniers want to make: That the Jews died because it was the biggest war ever, not because there was a concerted effort to single out and kill them specifically.

However, if you can show the existance of gas chambers, then there is no longer any denying the holocaust. Clearly people who died, en masse, in gas chambers were being singled out and exterminated. Once you accept the existence of gas chambers (which I most definitely do), then the entire argument about the Jewish deaths being nothing more than an unfortunate result of armed conflict falls apart.

@moho456

I sincerely hope you're joking. Please look into the Neuremburg trials if you're not. The amount of eyewitnesses, captured documents, photographs, and movie film is overwhelming. Not to mention the problems that arose when the Soviets and the allies disagreed about how to conduct the trials, and the stringent rules of evidence that were imposed.

I'm sorry, but claiming there isn't enough evidence just sounds naive to anyone who's spent a couple hours reading about what happened at Neuremburg.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Economist]
    #6369788 - 12/14/06 12:28 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I am not denying the holocaust, but there are some very interesting things to consider. I would argue that it was greatly exaggerated, by wealthy bankers and movie makers. Keep in mind how many movies have been made on this subject.....google it if you like.

1)The so called evidence. The photos and films, while disturbing does not prove genocide. It proves poor conditions for people taken prisoner during a fucking war. 

2)What would be in it for Jewish people to lie about such a thing? How about hundreds of billions of dollars in reparations, a country, and global sympathy. The holocaust is one of the most well known, talked about subjects in history. Google the word holocaust and see what comes up.

I don't doubt the Jews were treated like shit during WW2, but so were the Germans as Russian armies advanced. So were the French, and English, and countless others. Who do we constantly hear about though, the 6 million chosen. I think it would be more accurate to assume that the "concentration camps" were probably prison/work camps.

Why kill people when you can force them to work for your war effort.

Also, in Winston Churchill's extensive accounts of WW2, not once is the holocaust mentioned. It was an event that seemed to gain more knowledge and attention as time went on.

I will finish with a quote from 1984. Those who control the past control the future. Those who control the present, control the past.

Just my two cents, now you can proceed to call me a Nazi, though my grandfather was killed by one too. (where is his reparations?) :confused:

Edit: One very important point I forgot.

This is the ONLY section of history, which is illegal to debate, punishable by prison, in many countries. If that is not a red flag, I don't know what is.

The truth should be able to stand up to any debate, and win. Anyone feel the same way?


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


Edited by Hank, FTW (12/14/06 12:31 PM)


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6369983 - 12/14/06 01:21 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
1)The so called evidence. The photos and films, while disturbing does not prove genocide. It proves poor conditions for people taken prisoner during a fucking war.



So, you believe the extensive documentation kept by the Nazis on how the Jews were being moved, where they were being moved to, and how many were being "liquidated" was all just evidence of poor conditions during the war?

If so, why didn't England, or the United States, or any other participant keep similar records on how and where the Jews were located, what resources were being devoted to corralling them, and finally how rapid their liquidation could be carried out?

These records are real, they all met stringent evidence requirements to be submitted to the Neuremburg trials, and they can all be retrieved at various libraries and museums today.

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
2)What would be in it for Jewish people to lie about such a thing? How about hundreds of billions of dollars in reparations, a country, and global sympathy.



None of this was guaranteed at the end of the conflict. There was no way to know what the reparation methods would be (if any).

Also, what "hundreds of billions of dollars" are you talking about? Decisions to pay reparations weren't made until the late 1990s. Are you seriously suggesting that the Jewish peoples made up a lie on the off chance of making money 50 years later?

Turned on its head, a better question to ask would be why do the holocaust deniers only attack the Jews? Even the smallest estimates put Gypsy executions during the holocaust at hundreds of thousands, and yet no one ever claims that the "Dirty Gypsys are just making this shit up!"

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
I think it would be more accurate to assume that the "concentration camps" were probably prison/work camps.



Then maybe you could explain why the Nazis meticulously documented the output of their actual work camps and industry, and yet killing camps like Auschwitz do not have associated production records? Why would the Nazis keep very specific records of the war production from ALL OTHER work camps and yet magically not have records of war output from the camps with the gas chambers?

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
Why kill people when you can force them to work for your war effort.



So, are you suggesting that the court-documented killings of African American slaves in America also didn't happen because no one would ever kill someone who works for them for free?

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
Also, in Winston Churchill's extensive accounts of WW2, not once is the holocaust mentioned. It was an event that seemed to gain more knowledge and attention as time went on.



Maybe you'd better check your history again. It's true that Churchill's book doesn't mention it, but his "extensive accounts" are another story entirely, and the knowledge of the holocaust began well before the war's end.

I suggest looking up the declaration of 17 December 1942 if you still don't believe that the holocaust was recognized well before the war's end.

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
Just my two cents, now you can proceed to call me a Nazi, though my grandfather was killed by one too. (where is his reparations?)



American soldiers were all paid death benefits, I'm sorry if Canada was not as well organized.

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
This is the ONLY section of history, which is illegal to debate, punishable by prison, in many countries. If that is not a red flag, I don't know what is.

The truth should be able to stand up to any debate, and win. Anyone feel the same way?



I agree that it shouldn't be illegal to debate, and thankfully here in the United States it isn't. And yet with the freedom to debate the holocaust in the United States the conclusion among academics time and time again has remained the same: It Happened.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Economist]
    #6370121 - 12/14/06 02:06 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
1)The so called evidence. The photos and films, while disturbing does not prove genocide. It proves poor conditions for people taken prisoner during a fucking war.



So, you believe the extensive documentation kept by the Nazis on how the Jews were being moved, where they were being moved to, and how many were being "liquidated" was all just evidence of poor conditions during the war?

Again, how does this prove genocide. How easy would it have been to shoot every Jew on spot, from the get go. Why they spent all this money moving them around, housing them, feeding them(though poorly) is a big mystery to me.

If so, why didn't England, or the United States, or any other participant keep similar records on how and where the Jews were located, what resources were being devoted to corralling them, and finally how rapid their liquidation could be carried out?

Jews were considered an enemy in Germany, as they had declared "financial war" via sanctions as early as 1930. Meanwhile they were securing positions of power in USA and England, interesting that they would soon declare war on Germany(I am not defending Germany's provocation of WW2).

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/jdecwar.html

They were not singled out for their religion, they were singled out for their hostility towards German financial interests.



These records are real, they all met stringent evidence requirements to be submitted to the Nuremberg trials, and they can all be retrieved at various libraries and museums today.

Yeah, after 50 years, another RED FLAG.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/18/world/main2199121.shtml


Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
2)What would be in it for Jewish people to lie about such a thing? How about hundreds of billions of dollars in reparations, a country, and global sympathy.



None of this was guaranteed at the end of the conflict.  There was no way to know what the reparation methods would be (if any).

Also, what "hundreds of billions of dollars" are you talking about?  Decisions to pay reparations weren't made until the late 1990s.  Are you seriously suggesting that the Jewish peoples made up a lie on the off chance of making money 50 years later?

No, they exaggerated the truth to gain a country and world sympathy. Yeah Germany should have started paying restitution while much of it was behind the iron curtain. The fact is, they are paying the money. They are the only people to be paid by a government for such a thing, as far as I know. Why doesn't Germany repay the Russians, the Americans, the English....ETC ETC. People die in wars, Jews today seem to be cleaning up from this fact of life.

Turned on its head, a better question to ask would be why do the holocaust deniers only attack the Jews?  Even the smallest estimates put Gypsy executions during the holocaust at hundreds of thousands, and yet no one ever claims that the "Dirty Gypsys are just making this shit up!"

Did the Gypsies get a country? Do they receive billions a year in restitution? I don't think anybody is flat out denying the holocaust, but rather pointing out that it was likely exaggerated and exploited for profit, by a certain group.

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
I think it would be more accurate to assume that the "concentration camps" were probably prison/work camps.



Then maybe you could explain why the Nazis meticulously documented the output of their actual work camps and industry, and yet killing camps like Auschwitz do not have associated production records?  Why would the Nazis keep very specific records of the war production from ALL OTHER work camps and yet magically not have records of war output from the camps with the gas chambers?

First off, have you ever seen pictures of these so called gas chambers? Flimsy doors, and ventilation ducts....in gas chambers. Okay, if you say so. I will ask, why goto all the trouble to kill people. Shoot them for next to no money, or stab/beat them for free.

Again, these records were not available to the public for over 50 years, RED FLAG.


Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
Why kill people when you can force them to work for your war effort.



So, are you suggesting that the court-documented killings of African American slaves in America also didn't happen because no one would ever kill someone who works for them for free?

No, but was America fighting a total war at the time? Please do not use examples that can not relate.

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
Also, in Winston Churchill's extensive accounts of WW2, not once is the holocaust mentioned. It was an event that seemed to gain more knowledge and attention as time went on.



Maybe you'd better check your history again.  It's true that Churchill's book doesn't mention it, but his "extensive accounts" are another story entirely, and the knowledge of the holocaust began well before the war's end.

It is not mentioned in one of the most extensive accounts of WW2, by a great man and the leader of the main enemy of Germany(their country was destroyed by the Germans). That was my point.

I suggest looking up the declaration of 17 December 1942 if you still don't believe that the holocaust was recognized well before the war's end.

Please elaborate.
Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
Just my two cents, now you can proceed to call me a Nazi, though my grandfather was killed by one too. (where is his reparations?)



American soldiers were all paid death benefits, I'm sorry if Canada was not as well organized.

I'm sure the families of the dead soldiers got paid equal to what the holocaust survivors were paid :rolleyes:. People who would not fight for their own freedom....who had to be saved by us.  :rolleyes:

That reminds me of another thing....for a holocaust, there sure are a lot of survivors. If Hitler was trying to kill the entire people, why not just shoot them all while in camps?? Please answer this question.

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
This is the ONLY section of history, which is illegal to debate, punishable by prison, in many countries. If that is not a red flag, I don't know what is.

The truth should be able to stand up to any debate, and win. Anyone feel the same way?



I agree that it shouldn't be illegal to debate, and thankfully here in the United States it isn't.  And yet with the freedom to debate the holocaust in the United States the conclusion among academics time and time again has remained the same: It Happened.
This fact alone should tell you there is something fishy going on. We are a product of a lifetime of "learning" about the holocaust. I used to never question it(mainly out of fear) but it just seems all to Orwellian for me to ignore it anymore. My grandmother(from france) has told me countless stories of her living in occupied france. She has told of some horrific things, but never of a people being systematically wiped out by gas.





--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6370156 - 12/14/06 02:12 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

just read some of hitlers speeches or just listen to them. yeah there was a holocaust i am positive. i find it far fetched that jewish leaders were like hey wwII just happened let us fabricate the biggest lie in history so we can have isreal created by the international community as a country for the jews and then have that scheme actually work because the whole world is naive enough to buy it. if that happened the moon is made of cheese and i'm dick fucking cheney.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: SlashOZ]
    #6370183 - 12/14/06 02:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Again, nobody is saying that.

The holocaust is being exaggerated and exploited for the benefit of 1 people, in a war where millions others have died. It is like their lives are worth more than everyone Else's.

Am I the only one who sees this?????

If hitler had wanted them all dead, they would have all be dead.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6370228 - 12/14/06 02:32 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Okay, if you say so. I will ask, why goto all the trouble to kill people. Shoot them for next to no money, or stab/beat them for free.




They were using firing squads at first, because of how cheap it was. The German officers complained of low troope morale because of this, however.

Quote:

That reminds me of another thing....for a holocaust, there sure are a lot of survivors. If Hitler was trying to kill the entire people, why not just shoot them all while in camps?? Please answer this question.




Much of the movement of Jews into camps didn't occur until late into the war. Look up the history of Dachau and Auschwitz; they were heavily used until the last couple years before Germany surrendered.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Redstorm]
    #6370244 - 12/14/06 02:35 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, I can see how a crazy Hitler, losing the war might say "finish off all the Jews before they close in on us". So why not order them shot. I don't think he would care much about moral at that point.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Redstorm]
    #6370258 - 12/14/06 02:42 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Its very difficult to systematically kill so many people, (of course thats what IBM was there for), so usually their prisoners were divided up between going to work camps and death camps, also on their particular infration on the Reich. Gypsies,Communists,Slavs,Russians,and Poles.

Most of the times the germans would establish death camps close to cities with large jewish populations, especially in Poland which had numerous death camps.

The Jewish population in Europe couldnt of been more then 30 or 40 million, 6 million jews killed is a substantial number, and considering the amount Stalin forced into Pogroms and killed, even though Stalin himself had jewish blood.


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6370259 - 12/14/06 02:42 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

oh dear... :rolleyes:


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6370274 - 12/14/06 02:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

If the holocaust happened exactly as it has been stated, no reason we can't debate it, end of story.

When I first found out it was illegal to question in many countries, my eyes were opened.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6370384 - 12/14/06 03:11 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hank, FTW

I don't really know where to begin, it's hard to debate this subject because you seem to be missing some basic knowledge of the realities of World War II.

To begin with, the gas chambers were initially filled with Carbon Monoxide in order to kill those inside. This is found in both documents (Gerstein Report) and from eye witness testimony. As anyone who's heard about Carbon Monoxide deaths on the news knows, you don't need anything special to build a carbon monoxide gas chamber. People in America die every year because they accidentally leave their cars running in garages located below their bedrooms.

Thus, carbon monoxide gas chambers really don't need to be anything more than a room with a door and vents for the gas.

Next, it's well known that Germany had a shortage of nitrates, and that gunpowder was thus in short supply. So, not only was there an issue with troop morale (as Redstorm pointed out) but there was also the issue of expending gunpowder when you didn't have to.

You also seem to be missing some cause-and-effect. The Jews tried to impose financial strains on Germany because Hitler rose to power in the midst of anti-Semitic rhetoric. This is identified by Churchill in 1933, and he even recommends the Jews take this sort of action. (http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=605 )

Thus the Jews were singled out, and then they began to fight back, they were not singled out because they were fighting.

Additionally, the news story you linked states that the documents were held by the Red Cross for 50 years, but that they are also not the full extent of the documents. Are you suggesting the Red Cross is complicit in a conspiracy? And how do you account for the documents not held for 50 years, why doesn't their existence dimish the so-called "red flag"?

I also think you don't understand how reparations work at all. While the Jews have infact recieved the bulk of it, money has also been paid out to the Gypsys and Slavic peoples who were targetted by the Nazi regime.

I don't know what you want elaborated about the 17 December declaration of 1942, except that Churchill sent his foreign secretary to the house of commons with the message: "The German authorities are now carrying into effect Hitler's oft repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people of Europe," (Eden was the secretary)

I'd say that's pretty good confirmation that the holocaust was well known even before the war's end.

I also don't know what you're talking about with the Orwell and the "lifetime of learning". In America it is 100% legal to debate the holocaust. America has its share of holocaust deniers, who are free to state their views. Mainstream historians have listened to these views, examined the evidence, and determined that they are wrong. "Orwellian" as you keep suggesting, would describe a world where you must accept the holocaust as fact. That does not accurately describe the situation in America, and it is therefore not relevant. You are free to take any position on the holocaust that you want, and with this freedom the vast majority of mainstream academia has decided that it did infact happen.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Economist]
    #6370425 - 12/14/06 03:22 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah, they are free to state their views, with out being examined by unbiased people....

All I am saying is, if hitler wanted them all dead, they would all be dead. That is my main point. My other point, is they were not the only people to suffer in that war, so they should stop acting like this was the case. Maybe they should thank people like my grandfather, who died to help save them. I guess this is why I am bitter deep down.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6370452 - 12/14/06 03:29 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:


All I am saying is, if hitler wanted them all dead, they would all be dead. That is my main point.




hitler also wanted to take over europe, but he didn't get to do that either.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6370454 - 12/14/06 03:30 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

All I am saying is, if hitler wanted them all dead, they would all be dead. That is my main point.




Do you have any evidence that they had the means to both exterminate the entire "Jewish race" and fight a two-front war?


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