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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6370458 - 12/14/06 03:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

All I am saying is, if hitler wanted them all dead, they would all be dead.




Why?

I think you are underestimating how difficult it actually is to capture and kill ~40,000,000 people.

They were trying as best as they could, and they did a damn "good" job for the technology they had. Mass killing would be more feasible today.


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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6370462 - 12/14/06 03:32 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Not the entire Jewish population, just those he had imprisoned.


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Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6370728 - 12/14/06 05:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, it's still hard to kill hundreds of thousands of people... The point is the German's were trying very hard to exterminate an entire class of people AND wage world war... It was simply too hard to do, and then the war ended.

Not being able to complete such a hienous task doesn't make it any less heinous.


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Offlinerubixcubies
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6370736 - 12/14/06 05:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

who cares if the holocaust happened we should be focusing on injustices in the present not quibbling over some shit that happened half a century ago that WE CANT CHANGE.


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i'm a very evolved ape you know.


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Offlinemoho456
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6370743 - 12/14/06 05:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
I am not denying the holocaust, but there are some very interesting things to consider. I would argue that it was greatly exaggerated, by wealthy bankers and movie makers. Keep in mind how many movies have been made on this subject.....google it if you like.

1)The so called evidence. The photos and films, while disturbing does not prove genocide. It proves poor conditions for people taken prisoner during a fucking war. 

2)What would be in it for Jewish people to lie about such a thing? How about hundreds of billions of dollars in reparations, a country, and global sympathy. The holocaust is one of the most well known, talked about subjects in history. Google the word holocaust and see what comes up.

I don't doubt the Jews were treated like shit during WW2, but so were the Germans as Russian armies advanced. So were the French, and English, and countless others. Who do we constantly hear about though, the 6 million chosen. I think it would be more accurate to assume that the "concentration camps" were probably prison/work camps.

Why kill people when you can force them to work for your war effort.

Also, in Winston Churchill's extensive accounts of WW2, not once is the holocaust mentioned. It was an event that seemed to gain more knowledge and attention as time went on.

I will finish with a quote from 1984. Those who control the past control the future. Those who control the present, control the past.

Just my two cents, now you can proceed to call me a Nazi, though my grandfather was killed by one too. (where is his reparations?) :confused:

Edit: One very important point I forgot.

This is the ONLY section of history, which is illegal to debate, punishable by prison, in many countries. If that is not a red flag, I don't know what is.

The truth should be able to stand up to any debate, and win. Anyone feel the same way?




Very good counterpoint information brought to the table here.

Telling us that "I read a book about it." Doesn't mean shit.

The line from 1984 rings very true, look at how we demonize fascism and communism.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: moho456]
    #6370810 - 12/14/06 05:30 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Telling us that "I read a book about it." Doesn't mean shit.




Where else are we supposed to get information about the past other than from accounts by those who were alive during that time?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: moho456]
    #6370812 - 12/14/06 05:31 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I knew many survivors. I saw their tattoos. The more we get removed from the actual event the more there will be assholes who deny it.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6371175 - 12/14/06 07:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:
All I am saying is, if hitler wanted them all dead, they would all be dead.



And on that note...

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!!

AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT!!!



Edit: I'm pretty out of my mind right now (in the best sense) and this seemed a perfect reply, if you don't like it, hang out with me and the spirit of Andy Kaufman sometime...


Edited by Economist (12/14/06 07:47 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #6375071 - 12/15/06 09:30 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

http://eugie.typepad.com/from_new_york_and_all_ove/2006/12/how_my_grandad_.html

My father’s father died when I was 16, 15 years ago. Or was I 18? I don’t remember exactly. It was a long time ago. My memory fails me, the daguerreotype has faded. I know that he was. And then he was not. I know this because I saw him when he was. And then I saw him again. And he wasn’t any more. He lived, and then he died. It is a fact.

My grandfather had a little sister. I know what she looked like. I have seen the photo. A 1941 photo. Or was it 1940? I don’t remember exactly. It was a long time ago that I saw it last. My grandfather knew. But he has been dead for a while, so he cannot tell me. If the photo was taken in 1941, that is the year my grandfather’s sister died.

In his 60s, towards the end of his days, my grandfather got very sentimental. He had had three heart attacks, the first one when he was in his 40s, so he wasn’t good for much towards the end of his days. He would sit on the couch, clutching his sister’s old photo, and cry. About 40 years had passed, but he would still cry. I can’t say for sure, but I suspect that, many years after my parents go, may they live a long life, I will cry exactly like he did. My people, the Jews, are like that. Cry babies.

So his sister lived, and then she died. It is a fact. I know that, because I have seen my grandfather cry over her photo.

I know how she died. I wasn’t there, because I had not been born and wasn’t born until 34 years later. I wish I had remembered the year of the photo. Anyway, I wasn’t there. My grandfather wasn’t there either. He was in the Red Army. He was, don’t laugh, a trumpet-player in the Red Army. He was a trumpet player in the Red Army, and he must have been a good one, because he got medals. I wasn’t there when they gave him the medals, but I know he got them, because I have seen them, and they are still at my grandmother’s. May she live a long life too.

Even though neither my grandfather nor I were there, I know how my grandfather’s sister died, because I have seen the letter that describes that. Yellowed paper, somewhat smudged but largely clear handwriting. Dated 1945. Written in Ukrainian. To my grandfather, from my grandfather’s mother’s former neighbor. A Ukrainian, not a Jew. I don’t speak Ukrainian, but I speak Russian. Ukrainian is very similar to Russian. I can understand most of the letter. What I didn’t understand, my father translated for me.

My grandfather’s sister was living with her mother, in a little village in the Ukraine, when she died, in 1941. The mother was also, of course, my grandfather’s mother. That’s where he left them when, at 17, he went to war to be a trumpeteer in the Red Army - in their house in the village. I am glad I have never seen it.

My grandfather and his sister had many relatives. The exact count is not known. My grandfather used to know, but, as time went by and his mind weakened, his estimates started to vary. Somewhere around 20 seems to be about the right number. You can count 16 in the group photo from 1940, or is it 1941, that I have seen. You only get 8, I think, if you count the names mentioned in the yellowed letter. Yes, I think it’s 8 names that the neighbor lists as my grandfather’s relatives who were lined up outside the village and shot by Germans and Ukrainians in 1941. It’s 8 if you just count the names, but then the letter does refer to “and everyone else.” I don’t remember the


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6378468 - 12/17/06 03:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

You only get 8, I think, if you count the names mentioned in the yellowed letter. Yes, I think it’s 8 names that the neighbor lists as my grandfather’s relatives who were lined up outside the village and shot by Germans and Ukrainians in 1941.




But the president of Iran, along with the leader of the KKK, told me that it never happened, and they have no motive to lie. Why would I believe you, or academics that have researched the meticulous records kept by the Nazi's, over Duke or Ahmadinejad. Just because there is undeniable and overwhelming evidence that genocide did indeed take place, doesn't mean it actually happened. (sarcasm)


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Seuss]
    #6378828 - 12/17/06 10:52 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Here's HankFTW:
Quote:


This fact alone should tell you there is something fishy going on. We are a product of a lifetime of "learning" about the holocaust. I used to never question it(mainly out of fear) but it just seems all to Orwellian for me to ignore it anymore. My grandmother(from france) has told me countless stories of her living in occupied france. She has told of some horrific things, but never of a people being systematically wiped out by gas.




Hank's "reasoning" here seems to amount to pointing out that since we have been told something is true for so long it must surely be a lie. Brilliant. Just brilliant. There is more than a slight whiff of pathological paranoia in this "reasoning".

As to Granny living in France not seeing gas chambers, I would direct Hank's attention to any map from WW2 locating the death camps. There weren't any in France. He might want to ask his grandmother about why so many of the French were ever so helpful in identifying the Jews in their midst and helping to load them on to the trains. I suspect that many European nations have restricted holocaust denial because they know in their black hearts that they are a little too susceptible to repeating their behaviour


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6378967 - 12/17/06 12:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:

All I am saying is, if hitler wanted them all dead, they would all be dead. That is my main point.




He did want them all dead. It was known as Hitler's "final solution" to the "Jewish Problem" and was discussed openly throughout the Third Reich beginning in 1942.

wikipedia article Shoah education


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #6379818 - 12/17/06 06:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Incredibly huge genocide caused by Islam in Asia which is unkown or ignored by the left.




Case Study:
Genocide in Bangladesh, 1971
Summary

The mass killings in Bangladesh (then East Pakistan) in 1971 vie with the annihilation of the Soviet POWs, the holocaust against the Jews, and the genocide in Rwanda as the most concentrated act of genocide in the twentieth century. In an attempt to crush forces seeking independence for East Pakistan, the West Pakistani military regime unleashed a systematic campaign of mass murder which aimed at killing millions of Bengalis, and likely succeeded in doing so.

The background

East and West Pakistan were forged in the cauldron of independence for the Indian sub-continent, ruled for two hundred years by the British. Despite the attempts of Mahatma Gandhi and others to prevent division along religious and ethnic lines, the departing British and various Indian politicians pressed for the creation of two states, one Hindu-dominated (India), the other Muslim-dominated (Pakistan). The partition of India in 1947 was one of the great tragedies of the century. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed in sectarian violence and military clashes, as Hindus fled to India and Muslims to Pakistan -- though large minorities remained in each country.

The arrangement proved highly unstable, leading to three major wars between India and Pakistan, and very nearly a fourth fullscale conflict in 1998-99. (Kashmir, divided by a ceasefire line after the first war in 1947, became one of the world's most intractable trouble-spots.) Not the least of the difficulties was the fact that the new state of Pakistan consisted of two "wings," divided by hundreds of miles of Indian territory and a gulf of ethnic identification. Over the decades, particularly after Pakistani democracy was stifled by a military dictatorship (1958), the relationship between East and West became progressively more corrupt and neo-colonial in character, and opposition to West Pakistani domination grew among the Bengali population.


Catastrophic floods struck Bangladesh in August 1970, and the regime was widely seen as having botched (or ignored) its relief duties. The disaster gave further impetus to the Awami League, led by Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. The League demanded regional autonomy for East Pakistan, and an end to military rule. In national elections held in December, the League won an overwhelming victory across Bengali territory.

On February 22, 1971 the generals in West Pakistan took a decision to crush the Awami League and its supporters. It was recognized from the first that a campaign of genocide would be necessary to eradicate the threat: "Kill three million of them," said President Yahya Khan at the February conference, "and the rest will eat out of our hands." (Robert Payne, Massacre [1972], p. 50.) On March 25 the genocide was launched. The university in Dacca was attacked and students exterminated in their hundreds. Death squads roamed the streets of Dacca, killing some 7,000 people in a single night. It was only the beginning. "Within a week, half the population of Dacca had fled, and at least 30,000 people had been killed. Chittagong, too, had lost half its population. All over East Pakistan people were taking flight, and it was estimated that in April some thirty million people [!] were wandering helplessly across East Pakistan to escape the grasp of the military." (Payne, Massacre, p. 48.) Ten million refugees fled to India, overwhelming that country's resources and spurring the eventual Indian military intervention. (The population of Bangladesh/East Pakistan at the outbreak of the genocide was about 75 million.)

On April 10, the surviving leadership of the Awami League declared Bangladesh independent. The Mukhta Bahini (liberation forces) were mobilized to confront the West Pakistani army. They did so with increasing skill and effectiveness, utilizing their knowledge of the terrain and ability to blend with the civilian population in classic guerrilla fashion. By the end of the war, the tide had turned, and vast areas of Bangladesh had been liberated by the popular resistance.

The gendercide against Bengali men

The war against the Bengali population proceeded in classic gendercidal fashion. According to Anthony Mascarenhas, "There is no doubt whatsoever about the targets of the genocide":

They were: (1) The Bengali militarymen of the East Bengal Regiment, the East Pakistan Rifles, police and para-military Ansars and Mujahids. (2) The Hindus -- "We are only killing the men; the women and children go free. We are soldiers not cowards to kill them ..." I was to hear in Comilla [site of a major military base] [Comments R.J. Rummel: "One would think that murdering an unarmed man was a heroic act" (Death By Government, p. 323)] (3) The Awami Leaguers -- all office bearers and volunteers down to the lowest link in the chain of command. (4) The students -- college and university boys and some of the more militant girls. (5) Bengali intellectuals such as professors and teachers whenever damned by the army as "militant." (Anthony Mascarenhas, The Rape of Bangla Desh [Delhi: Vikas Publications, 1972(?)], pp. 116-17.)
Mascarenhas's summary makes clear the linkages between gender and social class (the "intellectuals," "professors," "teachers," "office bearers," and -- obviously -- "militarymen" can all be expected to be overwhelmingly if not exclusively male, although in many cases their families died or fell victim to other atrocities alongside them). In this respect, the Bangladesh events can be classed as a combined gendercide and elitocide, with both strategies overwhelmingly targeting males for the most annihilatory excesses.


Younger men and adolescent boys, of whatever social class, were equally targets. According to Rounaq Jahan, "All through the liberation war, able-bodied young men were suspected of being actual or potential freedom fighters. Thousands were arrested, tortured, and killed. Eventually cities and towns became bereft of young males who either took refuge in India or joined the liberation war." Especially "during the first phase" of the genocide, he writes, "young able-bodied males were the victims of indiscriminate killings." ("Genocide in Bangladesh," in Totten et al., Century of Genocide, p. 298.) R.J. Rummel likewise writes that "the Pakistan army [sought] out those especially likely to join the resistance -- young boys. Sweeps were conducted of young men who were never seen again. Bodies of youths would be found in fields, floating down rivers, or near army camps. As can be imagined, this terrorized all young men and their families within reach of the army. Most between the ages of fifteen and twenty-five began to flee from one village to another and toward India. Many of those reluctant to leave their homes were forced to flee by mothers and sisters concerned for their safety." (Death By Government, p. 329.) Rummel describes (p. 323) a chilling gendercidal ritual, reminiscent of Nazi procedure towards Jewish males: "In what became province-wide acts of genocide, Hindus were sought out and killed on the spot. As a matter of course, soldiers would check males for the obligated circumcision among Moslems. If circumcised, they might live; if not, sure death."

Robert Payne describes scenes of systematic mass slaughter around Dacca that, while not explicitly "gendered" in his account, bear every hallmark of classic gender-selective roundups and gendercidal slaughters of non-combatant men:


In the dead region surrounding Dacca, the military authorities conducted experiments in mass extermination in places unlikely to be seen by journalists. At Hariharpara, a once thriving village on the banks of the Buriganga River near Dacca, they found the three elements necessary for killing people in large numbers: a prison in which to hold the victims, a place for executing the prisoners, and a method for disposing of the bodies. The prison was a large riverside warehouse, or godown, belonging to the Pakistan National Oil Company, the place of execution was the river edge, or the shallows near the shore, and the bodies were disposed of by the simple means of permitting them to float downstream. The killing took place night after night. Usually the prisoners were roped together and made to wade out into the river. They were in batches of six or eight, and in the light of a powerful electric arc lamp, they were easy targets, black against the silvery water. The executioners stood on the pier, shooting down at the compact bunches of prisoners wading in the water. There were screams in the hot night air, and then silence. The prisoners fell on their sides and their bodies lapped against the shore. Then a new bunch of prisoners was brought out, and the process was repeated. In the morning the village boatmen hauled the bodies into midstream and the ropes binding the bodies were cut so that each body drifted separately downstream. (Payne, Massacre [Macmillan, 1973], p. 55.)
Strikingly similar and equally hellish scenes are described in the case-studies of genocide in Armenia and the Nanjing Massacre of 1937.

Atrocities against Bengali women

As was also the case in Armenia and Nanjing, Bengali women were targeted for gender-selective atrocities and abuses, notably gang sexual assault and rape/murder, from the earliest days of the Pakistani genocide. Indeed, despite (and in part because of) the overwhelming targeting of males for mass murder, it is for the systematic brutalization of women that the "Rape of Bangladesh" is best known to western observers.

In her ground-breaking book, Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape, Susan Brownmiller likened the 1971 events in Bangladesh to the Japanese rapes in Nanjing and German rapes in Russia during World War II. "... 200,000, 300,000 or possibly 400,000 women (three sets of statistics have been variously quoted) were raped. Eighty percent of the raped women were Moslems, reflecting the population of Bangladesh, but Hindu and Christian women were not exempt. ... Hit-and-run rape of large numbers of Bengali women was brutally simple in terms of logistics as the Pakistani regulars swept through and occupied the tiny, populous land ..." (p. 81).

Typical was the description offered by reporter Aubrey Menen of one such assault, which targeted a recently-married woman:

Two [Pakistani soldiers] went into the room that had been built for the bridal couple. The others stayed behind with the family, one of them covering them with his gun. They heard a barked order, and the bridegroom's voice protesting. Then there was silence until the bride screamed. Then there was silence again, except for some muffled cries that soon subsided. In a few minutes one of the soldiers came out, his uniform in disarray. He grinned to his companions. Another soldier took his place in the extra room. And so on, until all the six had raped the belle of the village. Then all six left, hurriedly. The father found his daughter lying on the string cot unconscious and bleeding. Her husband was crouched on the floor, kneeling over his vomit. (Quoted in Brownmiller, Against Our Will, p. 82.)
"Rape in Bangladesh had hardly been restricted to beauty," Brownmiller writes. "Girls of eight and grandmothers of seventy-five had been sexually assaulted ... Pakistani soldiers had not only violated Bengali women on the spot; they abducted tens of hundreds and held them by force in their military barracks for nightly use." Some women may have been raped as many as eighty times in a night (Brownmiller, p. 83). How many died from this atrocious treatment, and how many more women were murdered as part of the generalized campaign of destruction and slaughter, can only be guessed at (see below).

Despite government efforts at amelioration, the torment and persecution of the survivors continued long after Bangladesh had won its independence:

Rape, abduction and forcible prostitution during the nine-month war proved to be only the first round of humiliation for the Bengali women. Prime Minister Mujibur Rahman's declaration that victims of rape were national heroines was the opening shot of an ill-starred campaign to reintegrate them into society -- by smoothing the way for a return to their husbands or by finding bridegrooms for the unmarried [or widowed] ones from among his Mukti Bahini freedom fighters. Imaginative in concept for a country in which female chastity and purdah isolation are cardinal principles, the "marry them off" campaign never got off the ground. Few prospective bridegrooms stepped forward, and those who did made it plain that they expected the government, as father figure, to present them with handsome dowries. (Brownmiller, Against Our Will, p. 84.)
How many died?

The number of dead in Bangladesh in 1971 was almost certainly well into seven figures. It was one of the worst genocides of the World War II era, outstripping Rwanda (800,000 killed) and probably surpassing even Indonesia (1 million to 1.5 million killed in 1965-66). As R.J. Rummel writes,

The human death toll over only 267 days was incredible. Just to give for five out of the eighteen districts some incomplete statistics published in Bangladesh newspapers or by an Inquiry Committee, the Pakistani army killed 100,000 Bengalis in Dacca, 150,000 in Khulna, 75,000 in Jessore, 95,000 in Comilla, and 100,000 in Chittagong. For eighteen districts the total is 1,247,000 killed. This was an incomplete toll, and to this day no one really knows the final toll. Some estimates of the democide [Rummel's "death by government"] are much lower -- one is of 300,000 dead -- but most range from 1 million to 3 million. ... The Pakistani army and allied paramilitary groups killed about one out of every sixty-one people in Pakistan overall; one out of every twenty-five Bengalis, Hindus, and others in East Pakistan. If the rate of killing for all of Pakistan is annualized over the years the Yahya martial law regime was in power (March 1969 to December 1971), then this one regime was more lethal than that of the Soviet Union, China under the communists, or Japan under the military (even through World War II). (Rummel, Death By Government, p. 331.)
The proportion of men versus women murdered is impossible to ascertain, but a speculation might be attempted. If we take the highest estimates for both women raped and Bengalis killed (400,000 and 3 million, respectively); if we accept that half as many women were killed as were raped; and if we double that number for murdered children of both sexes (total: 600,000), we are still left with a death-toll that is 80 percent adult male (2.4 million out of 3 million). Any such disproportion, which is almost certainly on the low side, would qualify Bangladesh as one of the worst gendercides against men in the last half-millennium.

Who was responsible?

"For month after month in all the regions of East Pakistan the massacres went on," writes Robert Payne. "They were not the small casual killings of young officers who wanted to demonstrate their efficiency, but organized massacres conducted by sophisticated staff officers, who knew exactly what they were doing. Muslim soldiers, sent out to kill Muslim peasants, went about their work mechanically and efficiently, until killing defenseless people became a habit like smoking cigarettes or drinking wine. ... Not since Hitler invaded Russia had there been so vast a massacre." (Payne, Massacre, p. 29.)

There is no doubt that the mass killing in Bangladesh was among the most carefully and centrally planned of modern genocides. A cabal of five Pakistani generals orchestrated the events: President Yahya Khan, General Tikka Khan, chief of staff General Pirzada, security chief General Umar Khan, and intelligence chief General Akbar Khan. The U.S. government, long supportive of military rule in Pakistan, supplied some \\$3.8 million in military equipment to the dictatorship after the onset of the genocide, "and after a government spokesman told Congress that all shipments to Yahya Khan's regime had ceased." (Payne, Massacre, p. 102.)

The genocide and gendercidal atrocities were also perpetrated by lower-ranking officers and ordinary soldiers. These "willing executioners" were fuelled by an abiding anti-Bengali racism, especially against the Hindu minority. "Bengalis were often compared with monkeys and chickens. Said Pakistan General Niazi, 'It was a low lying land of low lying people.' The Hindus among the Bengalis were as Jews to the Nazis: scum and vermin that [should] best be exterminated. As to the Moslem Bengalis, they were to live only on the sufferance of the soldiers: any infraction, any suspicion cast on them, any need for reprisal, could mean their death. And the soldiers were free to kill at will. The journalist Dan Coggin quoted one Punjabi captain as telling him, 'We can kill anyone for anything. We are accountable to no one.' This is the arrogance of Power." (Rummel, Death By Government, p. 335.)

The aftermath

On December 3, India under Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, seeking to return the millions of Bengali refugees and seize an opportunity to weaken its perennial military rival, finally launched a fullscale intervention to crush West Pakistani forces and secure Bangladeshi independence. The Pakistani army, demoralized by long months of guerrilla warfare, quickly collapsed. On December 16, after a final genocidal outburst, the Pakistani regime agreed to an unconditional surrender. Awami leader Sheikh Mujib was released from detention and returned to a hero's welcome in Dacca on January 10, 1972, establishing Bangladesh's first independent parliament.

In a brutal bloodletting following the expulsion of the Pakistani army, perhaps 150,000 people were murdered by the vengeful victors. (Rummel, Death By Government, p. 334.) The trend is far too common in such post-genocidal circumstances (see the case-studies of Rwanda, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, and the Soviet POWs). Such largescale reprisal killings also tend to have a gendercidal character, which may have been the case in Bangladesh: Jahan writes that during the reprisal stage, "another group of Bengali men in the rural areas -- those who were coerced or bribed to collaborate with the Pakistanis -- fell victims to the attacks of Bengali freedom fighters." ("Genocide in Bangladesh," p. 298; emphasis added.)

None of the generals involved in the genocide has ever been brought to trial, and all remain at large in Pakistan and other countries. Several movements have arisen to try to bring them before an international tribunal (see Bangladesh links for further information).

Political and military upheaval did not end with Bangladeshi independence. Rummel notes that "the massive bloodletting by all parties in Bangladesh affected its politics for the following decades. The country has experienced military coup after military coup, some of them bloody." (Death By Government, p. 334.)



http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html


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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6382680 - 12/18/06 12:20 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Here's HankFTW:
Quote:


This fact alone should tell you there is something fishy going on. We are a product of a lifetime of "learning" about the holocaust. I used to never question it(mainly out of fear) but it just seems all to Orwellian for me to ignore it anymore. My grandmother(from France) has told me countless stories of her living in occupied France. She has told of some horrific things, but never of a people being systematically wiped out by gas.




Hank's "reasoning" here seems to amount to pointing out that since we have been told something is true for so long it must surely be a lie.  Brilliant.  Just brilliant.  There is more than a slight whiff of pathological paranoia in this "reasoning".

As to Granny living in France not seeing gas chambers, I would direct Hank's attention to any map from WW2 locating the death camps.  There weren't any in France.  He might want to ask his grandmother about why so many of the French were ever so helpful in identifying the Jews in their midst and helping to load them on to the trains.  I suspect that many European nations have restricted holocaust denial because they know in their black hearts that they are a little too susceptible to repeating their behaviour




The fact that you can't keep the original context of my quote is very telling.  :laugh:


If it happened like they said it happened, it should not be illegal to discuss in over 15 nations.

"As to Granny living in France not seeing gas chambers"

Of course she wouldn't see them, she lived in France, but maybe, just maybe she would hear of the single most evil event to happen, while it was taking place. Probably not though, just another point to bring up.

Yes, everyone hates the Jews, keep singing your tune. I fucking hate complainers, especially ones who capitalize financially off of said complaints. 12 million Russians dead, not one dollar paid.

A whole month long unit in my grade 11 "history class" about the Holocaust. Heh, maybe we should have learned a bit more about Canada's role in WW2?

Give me, just me, a knife and line up 1000 people(who would not fight back....never heard any accounts of Jews actually standing up and fighting back) and I could get through them in a few hours. Now, instead of me, get the SS, apparently the most officiant killing machine to walk this Earth, and what do we have? Millions of holocaust survivors.

Bull fucking Shit.

They were treated like shit, yes, but "systematically wiped out"TM, give me a break.

I feel like I am having some horrible dream, where people refuse to accept reason.


Edited by Hank, FTW (12/18/06 01:35 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: Hank, FTW]
    #6384089 - 12/18/06 08:19 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Hank, FTW said:


I feel like I am having some horrible dream, where people refuse to accept reason.




Believe me when I tell you I know what you mean.


--------------------


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InvisibleHank, FTW
Looking for the Answer

Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 3,912
Re: History of Genocide Under Debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6386164 - 12/19/06 01:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Saw that coming a mile away.


--------------------
Capliberty:

"I'll blow the hinges off your freakin doors with my trips, level 5 been there, I personally like x, bud, acid and shroom oj, altogether, do that combination, and you'll meet some morbid figures, lol
Hell yeah I push the limits and hell yeah thats fucking cool, dope, bad ass and all that, I'm not changing shit, I'm cutting to to the chase and giving u shroom experience report. Real trippers aren't afraid to go beyond there comfort zone "

:rofl:


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