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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28500124 -

GenesisCorrupted said:
MAO makes all drugs get potentiated.



So that we do not get lost in the weeds, I think it will be helpful to address this comment first. Where in the two articles that you have just linked does it provide evidence for this statement?

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28500134 -



It just forces certain chemicals to stick around a lot longer before their naturally destroyed and sent away from your body. That’s the only reason you can use  Dmt while you’re on that compound. Otherwise, it would get absorbed and digested way to quickly wouldn’t even be able to experience it.

No, this may not apply to every single compound. But the list was expansive.
Here’s a list.
https://www.medicinenet.com/mao_inhibitors-oral/drug-class.htm

I always include a list when I make a claim like that. Obviously every single compound on earth will not interact with us. But it is a large enough and scary enough list. That it should shake people up and make them read an article about it.
I have corrected that statement though.

Sincerely,
Genesiscorrupted


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Free Therapy,Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe

Edited by GenesisCorrupted (10/11/23 01:28 PM)

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28500151 -

Harmalas are not the irreversible MAOI's being talked about in medical literature, they are RIMA's.

MAOI's are very well understood. They are the oldest form of medical antidepressant.

Please stop, you are making a fool out of yourself.

If you want clear and concise understanding of how harmalas interact with paychedelics please visit dmt-nexus.me . It is a very old project which has has many actual chemists on board exploring these questions.


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We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28500154 -

GenesisCorrupted said:
MAO makes all drugs get potentiated.



It would be more accurate, from the articles that you have linked so far to say that MAOI's interact with some other compounds. It is simply hyperbolic to say that they potentiate all drugs.


GenesisCorrupted said:
Do not take LSD while on this compound.



GenesisCorrupted said:
I guarantee it is dangerous to use LSD while under these compounds influence.



These two comment I think do need to be addressee next. Can you please show where the evidence is for this in the articles that you have linked.

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Northerner]
    #28500157 -

This is actually what I was talking about.
There isn’t enough information. If you try to search for anything involving these compound. You’re always sent to the same stupid scientific articles.
Earlier you mentioned RIMA.
This is literally the first time I’ve ever heard about it. I’m gonna go do some more reading. I don’t want to sound like a fool. I appreciate you bringing this to my attention.


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Free Therapy,Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28500159 -

Kiwi89 said:
GenesisCorrupted said:
MAO makes all drugs get potentiated.



It would be more accurate, from the articles that you have linked so far to say that MAOI's interact with some other compounds. It is simply hyperbolic to say that they potentiate all drugs.


GenesisCorrupted said:
Do not take LSD while on this compound.



GenesisCorrupted said:
I guarantee it is dangerous to use LSD while under these compounds influence.



These two comment I think do need to be addressee next. Can you please show where the evidence is for this in the articles that you have linked.


I already shot my shot.
In principal. Because MAO forces you to not be able to get rid of serotonin in your brain as fast as we would normally.
Any drug that produces an excess of serotonin in your brain. Could potentially.
Cause serotonin syndrome.
LSD produces an enormous amount of serotonin, which on its own is completely fine.

The main scientific argument against getting to use LSD while using an MAO.
Was.
Due to the revelations that northerner has brought to my attention. This may have been misinterpreted or propaganda.

That, when using some thing that inhibits the natural dissolution of serotonin in the brain. Introducing some thing that produces an excess of serotonin can cause something called serotonin syndrome. Which can be dangerous. That’s all I was arguing for. That’s it.


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Free Therapy,Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28500163 -

There's a lot of information on this topic out there mate. But it's important that you understand it before trying to speak as an authority. Currently you don't even know what classes the drugs you are talking about are. You don't even appear to know the meaning of the acronyms you are using.

Spend a year hanging out with the Nexus crew, then come and tell us what you know as a journeyman.


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We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #28500164 -

Northerner said:
Harmalas are not the irreversible MAOI's being talked about in medical literature, they are RIMA's.

MAOI's are very well understood. They are the oldest form of medical antidepressant.

Please stop, you are making a fool out of yourself.



This is the sort of stuff that is very difficult to learn. I have literally asked the doctor. They interchangeably used the terms MAO & MAOI. They never even mentioned RIMA.

There is a plethora of information. That is all wrong on this topic. I accidentally contributed to that disinformation by repeating wrong educational materials.
I literally feel ashamed.

Nobody should feel they have to.
But if I could have an article link directly underneath his comment. I feel like that would end the flow of where this conversation has gone quite well.


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Free Therapy,Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe

Edited by GenesisCorrupted (10/11/23 01:55 PM)

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 3
    #28500165 -

I am so glad this 16 year old thread about "syrian rue and mushrooms" could be bumped for people to argue about combining LSD and ayahuasca.

:migraine:


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Good name is better than silver and gold
And no money can buy good name
I have a good name
And no money can buy my name
Do you have a good name?
Then no money should buy your name

Edited by ItAintGotNoGasInIt (10/11/23 01:55 PM)

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28500168 -

Go hang out on Nexus for a long while and read that treasure trove of info on harmalas and DMT. That is what they do, if you want to know about that.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: ItAintGotNoGasInIt]
    #28500172 -

Your oversimplifying.
This was about MAO, and anything that produces an excess of serotonin (mush,lsd,dmt)
combined with anything else that also produces serotonin. Causing serotonin syndrome. That’s what this discussion was.
More information is necessary. But I feel like this was the correct place to discuss it.


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Free Therapy,Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Northerner]
    #28500177 -

Northerner said:
Go hang out on Nexus for a long while and read that treasure trove of info on harmalas and DMT. That is what they do, if you want to know about that.


I absolutely want to know about that. But I am very curious. I was prescribed phenelzine.
Is that an MAO?
Because I thought this was a Harmmala that had been put down to his most concentrated form and put into a capsule.
Is this in no way related to the Syrian rue I was using before it?


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Free Therapy,Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #28500180 -

LSD is not potentiated by MAO-A inhibition. However, Rue/Harmalas (among other things) does strongly inhibit CYP2D6 (which also metabolizes the Harmalas themselves, so they essentially inhibit their own metabolization which i think plays a role in the Harmala reverse tolerance that occurs with regular Harmala consumption), and LSD is apparently metabolized by CYP2D6 - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-90343-y - And so if you consume LSD at the same time as Harmalas/Rue, the Harmalas can inhibit CYP2D6 and thus potentiate the LSD, however the CYP inhibitions of Harmalas have two phases, the first phase is when you first consume the Harmalas, the second phase is halfway through when the Harmine and Harmaline metabolize into Harmol and Harmalol (i'm pretty sure), which depending on Harmalas dosage which plays into Harmala duration, the second phase of CYP2D6 inhibition can occur anywhere from 4 to 6 to 8 to 10 hours, possibly up to 12 hours after first taking the Harmalas, but the CYP inhibition depends on the Harmala dosage and duration and as the duration stretches out the CYP inhibition moves around from hour 6, to hour 8, to hour 10, possibly up to hour 12, as the Harmala dosage and duration increases.

So basically, it's the CYP2D6 inhibition of Rue/Harmalas, which would potentiate LSD, not the MAO-A inhibition. But with that said, other strong CYP2D6 inhibitors would do the same, and anything that would induce the CYP2D6 enzyme would likely cause the LSD to be metabolized out of the system more quickly.


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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 2
    #28500188 -

Also LSD with MAO-A inhibition isn't going to cause Serotonin Syndrome because it doesn't raise Serotonin levels, particularly like SSRI's do. LSD and other Psychedelics are Serotonergic receptor agonists, though also binds to other receptors like Dopamine and Adrenergic receptors as well. Serotonin receptor stimulation isn't going to cause Serotonin Syndrome, or else all Psychedelics regardless of MAO-A inhibition would cause Serotonin Syndrome.

Also, 5-HTP for example can even be taken alongside Harmalas/MAO-A inhibition to raise Serotonin levels, it's actually quite nice, and it's safe, and has not been scientifically shown to cause Serotonin Syndrome in combination with MAOI's. I've been taking 5-HTP myself at 100mgs for the last say couple months and i take it either 2 hours before the Rue or about 6 hours into the Rue, and it's been great! Apparently i was rather low in Serotonin lol. Edit - Though it should be noted if you take 5-HTP you should take it alongside P5P B6 because B6 is needed by DOPA Decarboxylase to convert 5-HTP into Serotonin, whereas if you take 5-HTP without B6 it seems to feel more like 5-HTP than Serotonin, same with L-Dopa and Dopamine.


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Edited by Sabnock (10/11/23 02:23 PM)

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #28500191 -

I've also taken Melatonin with Rue btw, it's fine too, but Melatonin aside from being partially metabolized by MAO-A iirc, also is metabolized by CYP1A2, which again the Harmalas also potently inhibit, just like for Caffeine and Theobromine and other things.


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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Sabnock]
    #28500196 -

Now caffeine is the number one in a ton of articles.
Seriosly that is safe as well?
How can that not cause a hypertensive crises?
I swear i am going to call people and have this misinformation pulled of websites if these revelations keep coming.

Does Phenelzine still let me use dmt caps?


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Free Therapy,Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe

Edited by GenesisCorrupted (10/11/23 02:17 PM)

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28500203 -

GenesisCorrupted said:
Northerner said:
Harmalas are not the irreversible MAOI's being talked about in medical literature, they are RIMA's.

MAOI's are very well understood. They are the oldest form of medical antidepressant.

Please stop, you are making a fool out of yourself.



This is the sort of stuff that is very difficult to learn. I have literally asked the doctor. They interchangeably used the terms MAO & MAOI. They never even mentioned RIMA.

There is a plethora of information. That is all wrong on this topic. I accidentally contributed to that disinformation by repeating wrong educational materials.
I literally feel ashamed.


Don't feel too bad mate, i agree, a lot of the information about MAOI's applies moreso to the irreversible MAOI's, not reversible one's like Harmalas or Moclobemide, plus a lot of information is outdated on the subject and so now with RIMA's being more studied they're finding that RIMA's at least are actually rather safe, the only real thing they shouldn't be mixed with are strong SSRI's, as it's the SSRI's that are the actual issue, i myself have gotten Serotonin Syndrome just from being on SSRI's themselves, i've never gotten Serotonin Syndrome from Harmalas and i've taken them regularly since 2012.

And yes, Caffeine is safe, i drink it all the time with Harmalas actively in my system, like i said it's just metabolized by CYP1A2, if you take anything that inhibits CYP1A2, like Harmalas, and you take the Caffeine when the CYP1A2 inhibition is active, it will be potentiated which then you'd just have to reduce the dosage of Caffeine to account for the increase in dosage/bioavailability, or you can take the Caffeine either sometime before the Harmalas when CYP1A2 wouldn't be inhibited and the usual dosage of Caffeine will be fine, or you can take it at certain periods either during or after the Harmalas, when CYP1A2 isn't inhibited (which again happens in two phases/at certain hours within the Harmala effects/duration, so CYP1A2 isn't constantly inhibited, just inhibited for maybe an hour or so a couple times within the active Harmala effects.


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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28500207 -

Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Does Phenelzine still let me use dmt caps?


Phenelzine should technically knock out gut MAO-A and allow for oral DMT activation, yeah. I would not recommend Phenelzine though since it's irreversible and you have to avoid Tyramine, which isn't an issue with Harmalas/RIMA's. Plus you're more likely to run into interactions with things with irreversible inhibitors because they can knock out the MAO enzymes for approx 2 weeks or so.


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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Sabnock]
    #28500212 -

:thumbup:

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #28500222 -

I have this for the rest of the month. I’ve already been on the Dmt diet for like four months. So it won’t cause any interactions. But now that I know this. I will request an RIMA for the refill.
Then I get to fully enjoy a lot of things that have been falsely advertised as toxic poison to me.
I gave you a user review by the way. You’re like the most reliable source of information on these topics.
That’s how badly Google understands this topic.😂


--------------------

The Shroomery Manual
Free Therapy,Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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