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OfflineMustNotBe
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Syrian Rue and mushrooms
    #6359278 - 12/11/06 10:33 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I have some Syrain rue extract (10x), but I am curious how to take it.. and when before my trip? I think you just swallow it.. But should I take it a hour before hand or a day or right when I take my shrooms?


--------------------
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-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
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Offlinesandman_130
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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: MustNotBe]
    #6359362 - 12/11/06 11:00 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

If you are doing Rue, *PLEASE* READ AND MAKE NOTE OF THE DIETARY RESTRICTIONS.

Not following these COULD possibly lead to death (seriously, not meida-BS scare people away from drugs propaganda), last thing we need is a 'some kid heard eating this would make mushrooms more potent and he ended up dead' news stories.

I've added the list of foods/etc at the bottom of this post, CHECK EROWID FOR MORE INFO.

That being said, I asked this question about dosages on another message board awhile ago, and the response I got was 1g of mush for 3-5g of Rue, full respone I got is below.

Quote:



For purely informational purposes, harmaline and harmala are very hallucinogenic by themselves(syrian rue).
Most people who know how to get really into 1.5 grams of shrooms due to years of useing hallucinogens might not care to mix maois even if they only have one gram for themselves. 1 gram of shrooms with 3-5 grams of rue could be a VERY INTENSE and long lasting trip. Try 24 hours.
Even 2.5 rue adds more potency to the shrooms and another very interesting set of elements. Its a very serious mix, cognatively and physically.
caapi, like rue is the original ayahuasca





Another response on the topic.

Quote:



Looks like they are giving me some time before I get narced out for other peoples texting issues.

In short:
3 grams of rue and 2 grams of shrooms is far more intense than 2 grams of shrooms by themselves.
For some people this is 2 times as potent for some its 4 times as potent. Most dont notice anything other than an elongated and intensified shroom trip.
SOme people really have a hard time with it because it is a bit like taking ayahuasca. The end all be all of hallucinogens.
In my experiences which I will report at a later date Im sure, It is deeper and guided by waves you cant really controll. Shrooms are hard enough on my mind and body but this is something special.
The first time I took aya I thought I might pass out or die. I was scared.
3 grams rue and 2 grams of shrooms can do this easily.
3 grams rue boiled/eaten over 30 min.-1 hours time, then eat the shrooms.
If I could do it again Id try 4 grams of rue without any other drug. That would have told me the most about what I was in for.
T. Mckenna ate about 6 grams rue and 2 grams shrooms after an already, week long psilo-excursion. His brother didnt come back totally untill one week and a half later. People were afraid for him.
This is for the people who want to go the furthest. The visuals become very 3-d and real and every manifestation of the trip that you thought deserved more analytical contact is accentuated.
Rue by its self at around 3 grams can take on some increadible visual forms.
Rue causes the fattest tracers known to science as well as the growing and shrinking of objects. It is one hell of a load if you take dmtayahuasca or shrooms mixed with maois.





In short: You'll need atleast around 1.5g-2g of Rue to activate the MAOI, you'll also start to trip off of the Rue along, going above that much Rue, and you'll start to trip intensly off of that. It will also make the mushrooms upto 2x as intense - if not more. It can make the trip last ALOT longer also, and can be intense past the point of comfort.

Unless you are expierenced with doing /VERY/ high doses of mushrooms, this isnt really recomended. This just isnt like the lemon juice 'get more bang for your buck', - this is potenitatly turning the mushroom expiernce into something else eniterly.

Research and be carefull - this has the potential to knock you on you're ass and then some. And remeber

- You can always take more, but you can NEVER take less.

I'd say taking 3g of mushrooms would be *WAY* too much for this for you're first time - I'd start with 2g of Rue, what about ~30 mins before eating the Mushrooms, and start with 1g of mushrooms. See how this goes, wait an hour - if you feel like you want to bump it up, add some more mushrooms - Yes, re-dosing may be less effective then taking all 2g at once. But, I'd rather have a less-effective re-dose, then ending up in a trip that is too comofortable for me to handle.

When mixing in something like Rue, it's not just an 'ok, this will be over in 6 hours' like you can assume with normal mush - it may be lasting a MUCH longer time.




Quote:



Among the materials which may be dangerous in combination with MAO inhibitors are:-

Sedatives, tranquilizers, antihistamines, narcotics and alcohol) any of which can cause hypotensive crisis (severe blood pressure drop); and amphetamines (even diet pills), mescaline, asarone, nutmeg (active doses), macromerine, ephedrine, oils of dill, parsley or wild fennel, beer, wine, cocoa, aged cheese and other tyrosine containing foods (tyrosine is converted into tyramine by bacteria in the bowel) ) any of which can cause hypertensive crises (severe blood pressure rise).


ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES - avoid Chianti wine and vermouth. Consumption of red, white, and port WINE in quantities less than 120mL present little risk (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).

BEER and ALE should also be avoided (McCabe, 1986), however other investigators feel major domestic (US) brands of beer is safe in small quantities (1/2 cup or less than 120 mL)
(Anon, 1989; Da Prada, 1988), but imported beer should not be consumed unless a specific brand is known to be safe.

WHISKEY and LIQUEURS such as Drambuie(R) and Chartreuse(R) have caused reactions.

NONALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES (alcohol- free beer and wines) may contain
tyramine and should be avoided (Anon, 1989; Stockley, 1993).

BANANA PEELS - a single case report implicates a BANANA as the-causative agent, which involved the consumption of whole stewed-green banana, including the peel. Ripe banana pulp contains 7-mcg/gram of tyramine compared to a peel which contains 65 mcg/gram-and 700 mcg of tyramine and dopamine, respectively (McCabe, 1986).

BEAN CURD - fermented bean curd, fermented soya bean, soya bean-pastes contain a significant amount of tyramine (Anon, 1989).

BROAD (FAVA) BEAN PODS - these beans contain dopa, not tyramine,-which is metabolized to dopamine and may cause a pressor reaction-and therefore should not be eaten particularly if overripe-(McCabe, 1986; Anon, 1989; Brown & Bryant, 1988).

CHEESE - tyramine content cannot be predicted based on appearance,-flavor, or variety and therefore should be avoided.

CREAM CHEESE and COTTAGE CHEESE have no detectable level of tyramine (McCabe,-1986; Anon, 1989, Brown & Bryant, 1988).

FISH - fresh fish (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986) and vacuum- packed-pickled fish or CAVIAR contain only small amounts of tyramine and-are safe if consumed promptly or refrigerated for short periods;-longer storage may be dangerous (Anon, 1989). Smoked, fermented,-pickled (Herring) and otherwise aged fish, meat, or any spoiled-food may contain high levels of tyramine and should be avoided-(Anon, 1989; Brown & Bryant, 1988).

GINSENG - some preparations have resulted in a headache,-tremulousness, and manic-like symptoms (Anon, 1989).

PROTEIN EXTRACTS - three brands of meat extract contained 95, 206,-and 304 mcg/gram of tyramine and therefore meat extracts should be-avoided (McCabe, 1986). Avoid liquid and powdered PROTEIN DIETARY-SUPPLEMENTS (Anon, 1989).

MEAT, nonfresh or liver - no detectable levels identified in fresh-chicken livers; high tyramine content found in spoiled or unfresh-livers (McCabe, 1986). Fresh meat is safe, caution suggested in-restaurants (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988).

SAUSAGE, BOLOGNA, PEPPERONI and SALAMI contain large amounts of-tyramine (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986). No-detectable tyramine levels were identified in country CURED HAM-(McCabe, 1986).

SAUERKRAUT - tyramine content has varied from 20 to 95 mcg/gram-and should be avoided (McCabe, 1986).

SHRIMP PASTE - contain a large amount of tyramine (Anon, 1989).

SOUPS - should be avoided as protein extracts may be present; miso-soup is prepared from fermented bean curd and contain tyramine in-large amounts and should not be consumed (Anon, 1989).

YEAST, Brewer's or extracts - yeast extracts (Marmite) which are-spread on bread or mixed with water, Brewer's yeast, or yeast-vitamin supplements should not be consumed. Yeast used in baking-is safe (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).--The foods to use with caution list categorizes foods that have been reported-to cause a hypertensive crisis if foods were consumed in large quantities,-stored for prolong periods, or if contamination occurred. Small servings-(1/2 cup, or less than 120 mL) of the following foods are not expected to-pose a risk for patients on MAOI therapy (McCabe, 1986).

Foods To Use With Caution:-

(1/2 cup or less than 120 mL)--Alcoholic beverages - see under foods to avoid.

AVOCADOS - contain tyramine, particularly overripe (Anon, 1989)-but may be used in small amounts if not overripened (McCabe,-1986).

CAFFEINE - contains a weak pressor agent, large amounts may cause-a reaction (Anon, 1989).

CHOCOLATE - is safe to ingest for most patients, unless consumed-in large amounts (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

DAIRY PRODUCTS - CREAM, SOUR CREAM, cottage cheese, cream cheese,-YOGURT, or MILK should pose little risk unless prolonged storage-or lack of sanitation standards exists (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

Products should not be used if close to the expiration date-(McCabe, 1986).

NUTS - large quantities of PEANUTS were implicated in a-hypertensive reaction and headache. COCONUTS and BRAZIL NUTS have-also been implicated, however no analysis of the tyramine content-was performed (McCabe, 1986).

RASPBERRIES - contain tyramine and small amounts are expected to-be safe (McCabe, 1986).

SOY SAUCE - has been reported to contain large amounts of tyramine-and reactions have been reported with teriyaki (Anon, 1989),-however analysis of soy sauce reveals a tyramine level of 1.76-mcg/mL and fermented meat may have contributed to the previously-reported reactions (McCabe, 1986).

SPINACH, New Zealand prickly or hot weather - large amounts have-resulted in a reaction (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

More than 200 foods contain tyramine in small quantities and have been-implicated in reactions with MAOI therapy, however the majority of the-previous reactions were due to the consumption of spoiled food. Evidence-does not support the restriction of the following foods listed if the food-is fresh (McCabe, 1986).

Foods With Insufficient Evidence For Restriction


(McCabe, 1986)--* anchovies - cream cheese - raisins-* beetroot - cucumbers - salad dressings-* chips with vinegar - egg, boiled - snails-* Coca Cola(R) - figs, canned - tomato juice-* cockles - fish, canned - wild game-* coffee - junket - worcestershire sauce-* corn, sweet - mushrooms - yeast-leavened bread-* cottage cheese - pineapple, fresh--Any protein FOOD, improperly stored or handled, can form pressor-amines through protein breakdown. Chicken and beef liver, liver-pate, and game generally contain high amine levels due to frequent-mishandling. Game is often allowed to partially decompose as part-of its preparation. Ayd (1986) reported that the freshness of the-food is a key issue with MAOIs and that as long as foods are-purchased from reputable shops and stored properly, the danger of-a hypertensive crisis is minimal. Some foods should be avoided,-the most dangerous being aged cheeses and yeast products used as-food supplements (Gilman et al, 1985).--With appropriate dietary restrictions, the incidence of-hypertensive crises has decreased to approximately 4% (Zisook,-1985). Treatment of a hypertensive reactions includes the=7F-administration of phentolamine (Anon, 1989) 2.5 to 5 milligrams-intravenously (slow) titrated against blood pressure (Zisook,=7F-1985; Lippman & Nash, 1990). One report has suggested that the use-of sublingual nifedipine 10 milligrams was effective in treating 2-hypertensive reactions following the ingestion of a-tyramine-containing food in a patient receiving MAOI therapy-(Clary & Schweizerr, 1987). Chlorpromazine also has alpha-blocking-properties and has been recommended as an agent for discretionary-use (patient-initiated treatment) in the setting of dietary-indiscretion (Lippman & Nash, 1990).

CONCLUSION:--Dietary restrictions are required for individuals receiving-monoamine oxidase inhibitor therapy to prevent a hypertensive-crisis and other side effects. The foods listed in the dietary-restrictions have been categorized into those foods that must be-avoided, foods that may be ingested in small quantities, and those-foods that were previous implicated in reactions but upon analyses-of fresh samples only a small tyramine content was identified and-should be safe to consume if freshness is considered.


--------------------
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand.":mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

:sunny::mushroom2:Maria Sabina:mushroom2::sunny:


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Offlinesandman_130
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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: sandman_130]
    #6359374 - 12/11/06 11:03 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

In other words, read the dietary restrictions before you do anything.


Your gonna have to calculate your extract and figure out a proper dose, i'm never tried it with extract.


But When I make syrian rue and mushrooms I take the rue in tea an hour before the mushrooms. and then I make a mushroom tea with more rue in it. I use the lemon juice method, you will find that if you pour grape juice into your lemon mush rue tea, it will turn it half lime green, and half red, very trippy, the colors dont run together at all.


--------------------
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand.":mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

:sunny::mushroom2:Maria Sabina:mushroom2::sunny:


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: sandman_130]
    #6359392 - 12/11/06 11:13 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I was thinking about .2 grams of the rue, and 1 gram of mushrooms. Sounds good for a first try. How long cant I eat restricted items for? I was going to fast for until I am back to normal, how long do the maoi's effect you?


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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OfflinePlok
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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: MustNotBe]
    #6359432 - 12/11/06 11:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I had the same problem and would be interested in knowing the answer. Would ingesting 0.3g of Syrian Rue 10x extract be the same as 3g of regular Rue? I tried it one time with ayahuasca and barely tripped at all.


--------------------
Just say NO to the War on Drugs.


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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: MustNotBe]
    #6359442 - 12/11/06 11:26 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't mean to make little of the diet precautions. Follow them by all means.

As far as the food goes, you probably don't need to worry your heart out, just try your best to follow the guide. But, everyone is different, so who knows. From all I've read and experienced, you're not going to be in any real danger having had a bit of meat, chocolate, or dairy the day before, or even the day of. Tyramine should be avoided, but some isn't going to kill you. It will be potentiated though... worst I've seen is a headache from cheese while a person was on rue. Cacti contain tyramine. Some avoid potentiating mescaline because of this, but it doesn't seem to be a realistic problem for anyone I've heard of.

*DO* take extreme precautions with any form of medication. Prescription or OTC. *DO* avoid alcohol days before, during, and the day after. As for the diet, I'd say follow it as completely as you can the day of. Follow it the day before, though it's not completely critical. A glass of milk for breakfast probably isn't reason to cancel your plans. But you probably don't want to eat a massive steak dinner.

Before an actual ayahuasca experience, people tend to fast anyway, sticking with things like rice and water. Ayahuasca in tea form is extremely hard on the stomach though, for many. Purge can often be unavoidable, so people make it as easy on themselves as possible.

You're wise to start low. Some people are more easily affected by rue. I know 2g was too high a starting point for me. Not sure that you'll feel .2, but it'll be good to see if you have some strange reaction I suppose.


--------------------
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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #6359534 - 12/12/06 12:02 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I've tripped on rue + mushrooms twice in the last week, and I used the same dosage both times: 3g rue and about 3.5g mushrooms (dried). I don't use extracts, so I can't suggest dosage there.

As far as the taste is concerned, I used decaf instant coffee. Make your rue tea then add a bit of decaf instant. It worked well for me.

As the warnings above say, do NOT start off with too big a dose. You will trip HARD. Prior to my first MAOI + mushroom experience, I always sort of brushed aside the seriousness of the MAOI.. now I completely understand the warnings. I had a level 3/4 trip off of just 3-3.5g of mushrooms with the rue. And it lasted a long, long time.

I strongly suggest you remain with friends, people you are familiar with. Have relaxing music. Relaxing images. Be peaceful. If you don't relax, you will become very very anxious, which can make a wonderful experience turn sour.

Definitely not a party drug, not with rue at least. I enjoy mushrooms in party-like situations.. but not the combination. Rue + psilocybes is very very spiritual and very introspective.

I wish you the best, and enjoy yourself :smile:


--------------------
"Hence in the wise leader's plans, considerations of advantage and of disadvantage will be blended together." -Sun Tzu


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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: DrMario]
    #6361718 - 12/12/06 04:25 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a big proponent of fasting (for any occasion really) but as Koala said, you really don't need to worry too much about diet with such a low dose of maoi. All those diet precautions are for folks taking maoi's on the regular for legitimate reasons. SSRI's like prozac are much, much more dangerous.

Rue tends to make a lot of people feel a tad queasy and/or dizzy, so if you're one of the folks that already gets an upset tummy from shrooms alone; keep a bucket handy.

Have fun and report back.


--------------------
On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now thats is an idea ...

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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Brewmaster]
    #6361776 - 12/12/06 04:45 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

i drink regular coffee with it and no problems. also I fast for 6 hours before and 6 hours after taking the rue. eating rice is ok though a few hours after.
also I would use the dosage calculator...
http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-Calculator
different shrooms are different and you can attain different levels of a trip


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: cpw1971]
    #6361848 - 12/12/06 04:59 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

"SSRI's like prozac are much, much more dangerous."

Not with mushrooms (effects will be decreased), or diet, but as far as mixing with an MAOI, yes... that could be a fatal mistake.


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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Re: Syrian Rue and mushrooms [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #6361889 - 12/12/06 05:05 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That's what I meant, thanks for clarification.


--------------------
On storing pedro tea...

Brewmaster: Well, the mescaline will still be in there, but I'd be afraid of it conjealing and trying to escape after it grew in size from eating all the other shit in my fridge, and possibly my dogs if it got out.

Pithlit: sentient drugs, now thats is an idea ...

OneMoreRobot: Idea? It's a fuckin' reality. You know Salvia? Nigga stole my TV.


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