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MushmanTheManic
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Violent Pornography?
#6356118 - 12/10/06 10:34 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Acceptable or not? Good, bad? Causes violence? Prevents violence? What do you think? Why?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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I'd rather people just jerk off to it than go out and do the real thing, but I do find it somewhat disturbing that people have those kinds of fantasies.
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MushmanTheManic
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Viewing violent pornography, occurs so long after the fact (the reasons why one would find it exciting), as to be irrelevant.
Rather than asking "is it OK?" we should ask "why is it exciting?" This question, IMO, would lead us to exploring the repression of sexuality, as well as the severe emotional neglect and abuse faced by boys in the name of "Manhood."
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FatBath
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Veritas]
#6357144 - 12/11/06 09:17 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I noticed in high school that descriptions of rape aroused me. It is strange and disturbing, something that one would be inclined to suppress. That may not help, but make it worse.
I have created the theory that because I have been such a coward and backed away from every open opportunity that has been presented to me from a woman towards developing intimacy, that forced entry takes on a disturbing appeal.
These kind of pschyological disturbances create that narcissitic self-loathing, and it seems forceful entry and violence becomes exciting. This makes me less willing to get involved with a woman for fear of snapping and doing something terrible, an attitude which only futher cultivates frustration.
I have stopped looking at porn, and try not to jerk off. I have only really sought it out a few times since I moved out of my parents a couple of years back. There was only the time in High School where I sought out the more violent stuff, I didn't find much, and didn't stay with it too long, as the guilty pleasure was laced with too much disturbance.
I am generally pretty benevolent, but I do have a bubbling kind of eccentric belligerence that will surface than leave in an instant. I'll be walking around then I'll shout some word or another, but it will be so drenched in anger and hatred. Normal anger comes and lingers, but this is gone almost immediatly which is frightening. With normal anger, one is able to let it linger without acting on it to be unbound by its power and discover its real nature. This other thing though... I very often have dreams where I'm acting in a belligerent kind of malice.
Tantric teachings talk about indulging with an awareness so as to allow yourself to discover the true nature of what you're doing and move past it. I wouldn't think it necessary to start masturbating to anything violent. I think if I come accross sexual violence in media unknowlingly, that may be the best place to understand this twisted desire. Just to have the arousel inside of you should be enough. Don't repress that, and don't act on it. That is the strategy I have made, but haven't been able to put it into use just yet.
There is a strange contradiction I have noticed here in the USA regaurding sexuality. We are contstantly having sex shoved down our throat while simultaneously taught to suppress the desire. I don't know if it's like that for everyone, but that's how I feel, and there is great perversion everywhere I look, not just in myself.
Even confessing things like this I often feel like, I don't quite get it, and there is a sinister non-chalance about the whole thing. I don't know, my mind likes to over-demonize myself that's for sure, and I don't know if there could ever be a "proper" way of expressing things like this.
Edited by FatBath (12/11/06 09:17 AM)
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capliberty
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: FatBath]
#6357285 - 12/11/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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The shits stupid, its all I got to say, its against god. I know some of us don't believe in god. But I'm going with the short version today.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
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Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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It probably doesn't do much more than all the violent movies and shows people are exposed to on a daily basis. People are inclined to be excited by violence, because violence is often the end of the existence of others and the assurance of our own. It's only natural, and sexuality is nothing if not an expression of our natural inclinations.
"The universe is hostile So impossible Devour to survive So it is, so it's always been...
We all feed on tragedy It's like blood to a vampire
Vicariously, I Live while the whole world dies. Much better you than I."
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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aelephant
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Ravus]
#6359946 - 12/12/06 12:53 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Exactly what is the difference between you and I? Where do you end and I begin? Sadism is the same as masochism. Suffering is suffering.
But perhaps the players in these movies enjoy it? They are usually not coerced.
Arguments on both sides.
-------------------- As we live a life of ease, Everyone of us has all we need Sky of blue and Sea of Green In our Yellow Submarine
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kaiowas
lest we baguette


Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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just going from my own point of view, porno is a form of violence. It's very male dominated, since it's mostly males who watch it, and it is taken from their point of view. Better yet, it's taken from the point of view of those who are creating porn.
asking if it's good or bad is the same as asking if broccoli tastes great (which it does!!! )
does it cause violence? In some cases I think it has and in some cause I think it hasn't.
I feel that we cannot generalise ourselves or our ideas into an envelope and stamp it with an overall statement such as "pornography is bad"
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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LedHead
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: kaiowas]
#6360095 - 12/12/06 02:19 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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we studied this in psych and from what empirical (causal) studies show is that yes, it does increase aggressive sexual tendencies. There is NO catharsis effect from watching violent pornography it will not decrease, it can only increase. The same goes for watching violence on tv, people become desensitized to the violence and physically are conditioned to not respond radically to seeing violence as well as the violence depicted causing an increase in aggressive behavior. now philosophically i dunno, im not into it but if someone is, should we say no? i dont know
-------------------- I'm a traveler of both time and space...
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Ego Death
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: kaiowas]
#6360517 - 12/12/06 08:05 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
kaiowas said: I feel that we cannot generalise ourselves or our ideas into an envelope and stamp it with an overall statement such as "pornography is bad"
Everything and anything can and does happen. This is such a big subject that i won't even attempt to put it into words but firstly you need to philosophize about what good and bad are.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: kaiowas]
#6360612 - 12/12/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
kaiowas said: just going from my own point of view, porno is a form of violence. It's very male dominated, since it's mostly males who watch it, and it is taken from their point of view. Better yet, it's taken from the point of view of those who are creating porn.
You never substantiated your statement that pornography itself is a form of violence, in the context the word has been used in this thread. Unless you are referring to "a swift and intense force", which might apply to some pornography.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
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Mmmm, yes, swift and intense...
Oh, sorry, I got distracted for a moment. Erm, what I was going to say was that, while most porn does have that distinctive macho, testosterone-laden POV, it is far from violent. Disconnected, unemotional, mechanical--yes, but not violent. 
Some pornography is even erotic, sensual, exciting and inspirational. (But this is rare.) I suppose it is dependent on what the market will bear, hm? If porn didn't have such a bad rep, it might not have to cater to the lowest common denominator in order to make a profit.
There are a few female directors who have made erotic, graphic, adult films. These films could correctly be referred to as pornography, yet they include relational and emotional aspects which are foreign to standard-fare "fuck films." Progress?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Veritas]
#6360694 - 12/12/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: Mmmm, yes, swift and intense...
Oh, sorry, I got distracted for a moment. 
You don't hear me complaining.
Quote:
Erm, what I was going to say was that, while most porn does have that distinctive macho, testosterone-laden POV, it is far from violent. Disconnected, unemotional, mechanical--yes, but not violent. 
I'm interested in knowing the line of reasoning responsible for the conclusion that pornography itself could be said to be violent.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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FatBath
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Maybe if people percieve sex itself as violent...
I for one wouldn't mind taking the smut out of porn so to speak. I have always seen it as a neglected art form.
I once fantasized about spooning with this girl I liked in a semi-foetal position, both of us in our underwear. I was the warmest, most satisfying arousal I have ever got from a fantasy. Much better than the standard power-fuck scream fest.
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StroFun
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: FatBath]
#6361080 - 12/12/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't discriminate when it comes to porno. Unless it is guy on guy then i discriminate.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Veritas]
#6361384 - 12/12/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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(But this is rare.)
That's true for you dear. I'm shallow and male and I find lots of porn exciting; at times at least.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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it stars saddam
Satan

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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Veritas]
#6361396 - 12/12/06 12:54 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said: There are a few female directors who have made erotic, graphic, adult films. These films could correctly be referred to as pornography, yet they include relational and emotional aspects which are foreign to standard-fare "fuck films." Progress?
No male directors have ever made films like that huh?
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


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Violent pornography is not so good for the mind as it increases mental affliction.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: LedHead]
#6361639 - 12/12/06 01:58 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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we studied this in psych and from what empirical (causal) studies show is that yes, it does increase aggressive sexual tendencies. There is NO catharsis effect from watching violent pornography it will not decrease, it can only increase. The same goes for watching violence on tv, people become desensitized to the violence and physically are conditioned to not respond radically to seeing violence as well as the violence depicted causing an increase in aggressive behavior.

According to Albert Bandura's Social Learning theory, people who watch a violent film in which the perpetrators of the violence are rewarded will themselves be reinforced to behave violently. If the perpetrators of the violent act in the film are not rewarded or punished though, the viewers will not be reinforced to behave violently. (See: The Bobo Doll Experiment.)
Few violent porno flicks, if any at all, seem to show realistic consequences.
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Veritas]
#6361648 - 12/12/06 02:01 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Rather than asking "is it OK?" we should ask "why is it exciting?" This question, IMO, would lead us to exploring the repression of sexuality, as well as the severe emotional neglect and abuse faced by boys in the name of "Manhood."
Good question. Why is violent porn exciting?
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: FatBath]
#6361666 - 12/12/06 02:06 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I noticed in high school that descriptions of rape aroused me.
Don't worry, you're not the only one. Holding the belief that violence against women is wrong, yet still being aroused by it, seems common.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker


Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Rather than asking "is it OK?" we should ask "why is it exciting?" This question, IMO, would lead us to exploring the repression of sexuality, as well as the severe emotional neglect and abuse faced by boys in the name of "Manhood."
Good question. Why is violent porn exciting?
Why is violence exciting? Why is sex exciting?
Each are related to our survival and the continuation of the species. Individually, both are good at affecting the old dopamine and epinephrine in the brain; together, even moreso.
-------------------- So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Ravus]
#6362097 - 12/12/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I concur.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
it stars saddam said:
Quote:
Veritas said: There are a few female directors who have made erotic, graphic, adult films. These films could correctly be referred to as pornography, yet they include relational and emotional aspects which are foreign to standard-fare "fuck films." Progress?
No male directors have ever made films like that huh?
None that I have viewed or heard of, though there is certainly a spectrum of pornographic movies (directed by men) between "Biker Babes Buttfuck" and some of the newer, erotic films by female directors.
Do you have recommendations?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Veritas]
#6362843 - 12/12/06 06:56 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I once had an idea for a website of romantic porn, but I'm not sure if there's a big enough market for it. Then again, if there's a market for chicks sucking off horses, there's gotta be one for this.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Silversoul]
#6362855 - 12/12/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wasn't referring necessarily to "romantic porn," as there have been many soft-core, late-night on Showtime movies made which fit this description. The mix between Harlequin romance novel and hot sex doesn't seem to work very well.
I do think that there could be a market for hard-core, artistic, erotic films featuring graphic sex AND a script.
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aelephant
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Veritas]
#6364123 - 12/12/06 10:25 PM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think violent sex is exciting because it is "taboo" in a sense. Also, many men are aroused by the objectification and degradation of women (myself included, though I wish I weren't at times). I believe much of this is induced by media presented images of women as a weaker sex who must use their sexuality in order to compete with men. This is the result of male insecurity and a male dominated society.
-------------------- As we live a life of ease, Everyone of us has all we need Sky of blue and Sea of Green In our Yellow Submarine
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Rather than asking "is it OK?" we should ask "why is it exciting?" This question, IMO, would lead us to exploring the repression of sexuality, as well as the severe emotional neglect and abuse faced by boys in the name of "Manhood."
Good question. Why is violent porn exciting?
My theory is that violent sex is the expression of passion under the influence of repression, combined with the association of love and abuse (linked up during childhood.) Women who were abused as children tend to become involved with abusers, and men who were abused (or witnessed abuse) during childhood tend to become abusers. Monkey see, monkey do. We seek out what feels familiar, what we have learned to describe as "love."
Combine that with the gradual desensitization of children via TV and movies (By the time a child is eighteen years old, he or she will witness on television [with average viewing time of 44.5 hours per week] 200,000 acts of violence including 40,000 murders), and you have eliminated the perceived "consequences" of enacting violent behaviors.
Violent porn allows those who have repressed their passion to imagine what it would be like to finally express their feelings. It allows the disempowered to imagine being powerful. It taps in to the "inner caveman," and strips away the veneer of civilization.
Edit: I found an interesting PBS show on the topic of pornography.
PBS Show
Edited by Veritas (12/13/06 09:56 AM)
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FatBath
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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: Veritas]
#6365798 - 12/13/06 11:48 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah repression seems to be key here. If you masturbate and feel guilty, then there is conflict, fighting, violence in what you do. You look at porn and feel guilty. Now sexual violence will take an appeal.
So maybe, to stop psychicly raping people, you better start jerking off, and you better like it. Of course, the less timid way want to just go about having that deep, spooge denying, surrendur sex for hours on end.
edit: Just so you all know, the library brought me to the ACCESS RESTRICED CYBER PATROL after posting this.
Edited by FatBath (12/13/06 11:51 AM)
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MrSinister
Uncle T


Registered: 03/23/06
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Rather than asking "is it OK?" we should ask "why is it exciting?" This question, IMO, would lead us to exploring the repression of sexuality, as well as the severe emotional neglect and abuse faced by boys in the name of "Manhood."
Good question. Why is violent porn exciting?
Maybe you should ask why isn't it exciting to you, and why you would judge another because they in-fact might enjoy that... Truly in a forum such as this tolerance to ones personal beliefs might be given...
But what is it you are speaking about? Are we taking about just straight over the counter, sneak in the back room of the Video store stuff, or are we talking about other things? Yes i myself find women doing "nasty" things on men, and women with animals kind of disgusting, and vile, but believe it or not there are people out there who get sexually excited when they see this...
We can not judge others because we ourselves think something is sicking.. As long as nobody is violating the rights of children, or raping a womens soul, then we are forced to turn away in disgust as a Japanese women does things only found in a bathroom..
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"They look like psychos? Is that what they looked like? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits 'em. I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!" "Eric Stratton.. Rush chairman.. Damn glad to meet you.."
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Violent Pornography? [Re: MrSinister]
#6370071 - 12/14/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe you should ask why isn't it exciting to you
I never said it wasn't.
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mr_kite
The Watcher


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Quote:
My theory is that violent sex is the expression of passion under the influence of repression
nail on the head.
I find it very hard to believe that any emotionally balanced person finds violent porn exciting or erotic. (Im not talking about erotic sadomasochistism, Im talking about direct, simple violence, like hitting and slapping the woman, hitting her head off the toilet etc). If the woman enjoys domination and stuff then sure it could be erotic, but you can tell that the stuff in extreme porn flicks is just abuse. The girls arent enjoying it, they're being physically assaulted, so its just sick. Ive only seen that sort of thing a couple of times and it make me feel nauseus.
As a guy, Id say that more than half the pleasure in sex comes from giving the woman as damn good a time as possible. What I feel is secondary to what my girlfriend feels, in terms of how much I enjoy myself. Obviously a good hard fuck is great too...and where porn's concerned, as long as the woman is appealing sexually and she looks to be having a good time its usually all good. But in terms of erotic fantasy, the woman comes first. I dont think theres a place for violence unless both partners are involved, and its very obvious when someones enjoying sex and when theyre not.
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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