|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
Littleman

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
A level chemistry - fly agarics
#6353459 - 12/10/06 09:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
ok, so for our coursework in january we do an investigation completely our own with unlimited access to the lab. now i want to do something that im acutally interested in, and i thought doing something with extraction/conversion/yields etc. of ibotenic acid and muscimol from samples of amanitas. i searched the forums and found this . ive also had a look at some wikipedia pages here and here so i can link certain chemical ideas to areas of our course (e.g. muscimol is primary amide, conversion is by decarboxylation etc.) . only problem is that the experiment takes place over 4 weeks, with 4.5 hours a week. 18 in total and the experiment needs to be sufficiently meaty to use all that time effectively. i was just wondering if anyone here has done somethign similar, or has any ideas that might help.] thanks muchly.
-------------------- "Well Right after the 4th hit he was so far gone he puked all over him self. He had no clue that he threw up on him self and was finger painting in it on his stomach." - Mudnpool NZ Psilocybe Hitlist:
Subaeruginosa-Weraroa-Semilanceata -Subsecotioid - Angulospora - Tasmaniana - Alutacea
|
Psiloman
member

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
|
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: Littleman]
#6353639 - 12/10/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Hmmm how about also an analog search if you cna do it? Can you modify the molecule at all? Ad interesting groups on it? (sulfur groups would be interesting i saw an online paper about a muscimol analog somewhere by an amateur that bioassayed it but cant find it at the moment)..
|
lipan
Magi

Registered: 09/10/06
Posts: 569
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: Psiloman]
#6353643 - 12/10/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I'd be weary about trying an extraction. It supposedly takes forever to extract the good's.
-------------------- Feel free to forget all that I am saying, for the instant these clumsy words spill out of my mouth, they transform into complete lies.
|
hjalmar
chemist, autist


Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Belgica Secunda
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: lipan]
#6354681 - 12/10/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
why? A simple acid/base extraction should extract the muscimol easily.
For thin layer chromatography you can extract with methanol, pour over cation exchange resin in a column. Wash resin with an org solvent to get out crap, while alkaloids will remain on the acidic resin, then take up in water, basify water, and extract with chloroform or ether.
|
Cepheus
Balance



Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
|
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: Littleman]
#6354883 - 12/10/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
A level chemistry isnt that advanced. I do it myself hah. Im resitting the AS Year though to obtain a better grade (I got a D at AS).
If I were you I'd do something a bit more simple....
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
|
Littleman

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: hjalmar]
#6355195 - 12/10/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
hjalmar said: why? A simple acid/base extraction should extract the muscimol easily.
For thin layer chromatography you can extract with methanol, pour over cation exchange resin in a column. Wash resin with an org solvent to get out crap, while alkaloids will remain on the acidic resin, then take up in water, basify water, and extract with chloroform or ether.
sweet, this is just the kind of stuf im looking for. the experiment itself doesnt need to be very chemically complicated, its more an assesment of practical technique. relly it needs to be somehting i can take measurement of, and do graphs and stat tests on etc. i was thinking of doing like different yields from extraction at different temperatures, but it doesnt sound like it would work. maybe different yields from fresh samples dried at different temperatures, or trying to do the decarboxylation after isolating them . only problem would be obtaining fresh sample in feburary...
-------------------- "Well Right after the 4th hit he was so far gone he puked all over him self. He had no clue that he threw up on him self and was finger painting in it on his stomach." - Mudnpool NZ Psilocybe Hitlist:
Subaeruginosa-Weraroa-Semilanceata -Subsecotioid - Angulospora - Tasmaniana - Alutacea
|
hjalmar
chemist, autist


Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Belgica Secunda
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: Littleman]
#6362231 - 12/12/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
February? I don't think so. Here they grow from september to december.
Your ibotenic acid will decarboxylate very fast when drying the sample.
Maybe variation in muscimol content on amanitas collected from different locations?
I can spare you a A. muscaria var. muscaria sample from Belgium if you'd need it.
|
Littleman

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: hjalmar]
#6367143 - 12/13/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
well thanks much for your help man, but i ran it by my teacher, who despite being quite impressed and interested eventually arrived at the fact that ther was some safety issue about some bollocks that meant i cant realy do it. Im pretty sure they just dont want me extracting any psychoactive substances in their college lol.  she said we'd be able to model the reaction using similar amino acids or somesuch. but il see if i can convince them..
-------------------- "Well Right after the 4th hit he was so far gone he puked all over him self. He had no clue that he threw up on him self and was finger painting in it on his stomach." - Mudnpool NZ Psilocybe Hitlist:
Subaeruginosa-Weraroa-Semilanceata -Subsecotioid - Angulospora - Tasmaniana - Alutacea
|
|