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OfflineLittleman

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
A level chemistry - fly agarics
    #6353459 - 12/10/06 09:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

ok, so for our coursework in january we do an investigation completely our own with unlimited access to the lab.
now i want to do something that im acutally interested in, and i thought doing something with extraction/conversion/yields etc. of ibotenic acid and muscimol from samples of amanitas.
i searched the forums and found  this
ive also  :mushroom2:had a look at some wikipedia pages  here and here
so i can link certain chemical ideas to areas of our course (e.g. muscimol is primary amide, conversion is by decarboxylation etc.)
. only problem is that the experiment takes place over 4 weeks, with 4.5 hours a week. 18 in total and the experiment needs to be sufficiently meaty to use all that time effectively.
i was just wondering if anyone here has done somethign similar, or has any ideas that might help.]
thanks muchly.  :mushroom2:


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OfflinePsiloman
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Registered: 04/11/03
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Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: Littleman]
    #6353639 - 12/10/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Hmmm how about also an analog search if you cna do it? Can you modify the molecule at all? Ad interesting groups on it? (sulfur groups would be interesting i saw an online paper about a muscimol analog somewhere by an amateur that bioassayed it but cant find it at the moment)..

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Offlinelipan
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Registered: 09/10/06
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Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: Psiloman]
    #6353643 - 12/10/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'd be weary about trying an extraction. It supposedly takes forever to extract the good's.


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Offlinehjalmar
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Registered: 10/27/04
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Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: lipan]
    #6354681 - 12/10/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

why? A simple acid/base extraction should extract the muscimol easily.

For thin layer chromatography you can extract with methanol, pour over cation exchange resin in a column. Wash resin with an org solvent to get out crap, while alkaloids will remain on the acidic resin, then take up in water, basify water, and extract with chloroform or ether.

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OfflineCepheus
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Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: Littleman]
    #6354883 - 12/10/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

A level chemistry isnt that advanced. I do it myself hah. Im resitting the AS Year though to obtain a better grade (I got a D at AS).

If I were you I'd do something a bit more simple....


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OfflineLittleman

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: hjalmar]
    #6355195 - 12/10/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

hjalmar said:
why? A simple acid/base extraction should extract the muscimol easily.

For thin layer chromatography you can extract with methanol, pour over cation exchange resin in a column. Wash resin with an org solvent to get out crap, while alkaloids will remain on the acidic resin, then take up in water, basify water, and extract with chloroform or ether.




sweet, this is just the kind of stuf im looking for.
the experiment itself doesnt need to be very chemically complicated, its more an assesment of practical technique. relly it needs to be somehting i can take measurement of, and do graphs and stat tests on etc. i was thinking of doing like different yields from extraction at different temperatures, but it doesnt sound like it would work.
maybe different yields from fresh samples dried at different temperatures, or trying to do the decarboxylation after isolating them . only problem would be obtaining fresh sample in feburary...


--------------------
"Well Right after the 4th hit he was so far gone he puked all over him self. He had no clue that he threw up on him self and was finger painting in it on his stomach."
- Mudnpool

NZ Psilocybe Hitlist:
Subaeruginosa-Weraroa-Semilanceata
-Subsecotioid - Angulospora - Tasmaniana - Alutacea

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Offlinehjalmar
chemist, autist
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 10/27/04
Posts: 295
Loc: Belgica Secunda
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: Littleman]
    #6362231 - 12/12/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

February? I don't think so. Here they grow from september to december.

Your ibotenic acid will decarboxylate very fast when drying the sample.

Maybe variation in muscimol content on amanitas collected from different locations?

I can spare you a A. muscaria var. muscaria sample from Belgium if you'd need it.

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OfflineLittleman

Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 446
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: A level chemistry - fly agarics [Re: hjalmar]
    #6367143 - 12/13/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well thanks much for your help man, but i ran it by my teacher, who despite being quite impressed and interested eventually arrived at the fact that ther was some safety issue about some bollocks that meant i cant realy do it.
Im pretty sure they just dont want me extracting any psychoactive substances in their college lol. :cool:
she said we'd be able to model the reaction using similar amino acids or somesuch. but il see if i can convince them..


--------------------
"Well Right after the 4th hit he was so far gone he puked all over him self. He had no clue that he threw up on him self and was finger painting in it on his stomach."
- Mudnpool

NZ Psilocybe Hitlist:
Subaeruginosa-Weraroa-Semilanceata
-Subsecotioid - Angulospora - Tasmaniana - Alutacea

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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