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Offlinepeter19
peter19
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 88
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: peter19]
    #7538254 - 10/20/07 04:08 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

donna marsh o conner - mother of wtc victim - 911 Truth Movement Press Conf


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“All Truth Goes Through Three Stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident.”
- Arthur Schopenhauer

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: peter19]
    #7538257 - 10/20/07 04:10 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

The reason I pointed out your language errors was not to make fun but to point out that I have noticed many so-called 9/11 Truthers cannot use their native tongue to make their case. Little things like language seem unimportant to them.

This lack of concern is reflected in their approach towards 9/11 fact-finding. They just don't care to be careful. You have to watch yourself so you don't fool yourself.

Remember the 11th commandment: Thou shalt not kid thyself.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Offlinepeter19
peter19
Registered: 10/14/07
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: peter19]
    #7538258 - 10/20/07 04:11 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

wtc7


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“All Truth Goes Through Three Stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident.”
- Arthur Schopenhauer

Edited by peter19 (10/20/07 04:30 AM)

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: peter19]
    #7538265 - 10/20/07 04:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

That is twice you have posted that and I would rather you make your case in your own words if that is possible. If you have to type what you say you have to at least think about it first.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Offlinepeter19
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: peter19]
    #7538266 - 10/20/07 04:27 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i think iv said all i can now so im going to leave this thread. im amazed people dont look at the above clips, espessially the world trade centre 7 one, and think to themselves this building hasnt collapsed right. oh well.

the evidence is there, if you read what i wrote and watch the videos you will atleast clearly see there is still many unanswered questions. if you dont see that i think you are seeing what you want too see or maybe have some political agendas. well anyways asking questions and behing critical is good, because if people dont do that it will end up like nazi germany, when hitler burned down the reichtarg(sp). if people said hitler would of burned the jews they would have said something along the lines of- " he wouldnt do that, thats just conspiracy talk, it wont happen". when it did, and if we dont learn from our history as the saying goes we will repeat it.

all of the best for now.


--------------------
“All Truth Goes Through Three Stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident.”
- Arthur Schopenhauer

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: peter19]
    #7538268 - 10/20/07 04:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Next time learn to use the english language properly if you want to be taken seriously. Also, bring some actual evidence to the table rather than videos and statements from crackpots.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Offlined33p
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: zorbman]
    #7538540 - 10/20/07 08:38 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Wow, debating with peter is like trying to torture a cadaver.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: d33p]
    #7538954 - 10/20/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

This video says it all.

&NR=1

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: peter19]
    #7539729 - 10/20/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

peter19 said:
Quote:

Konnrade said:
negative evidence is not evidence.

I can't prove that schroedinger's cat is not in a closed box... the lack of proof that the cat isn't in the box does not prove, nor even suggest, that the cat IS in the box.




im not familiar with schroedingers cat but yes you cant really prove something with negative evidence, or you cant prove exackly how it was done with negative evidence but you can prove that it was not done how people said it was done.

fires dont melt steel and if they weakened them, only parts of the buildings would be weakened and face the lowers floors resistance. the buildings would fall no-where near free fall speed if it pancaked, and they wouldnt collaspe as they did. see, things like that you see with your own eyes. look at building 5, why didnt that collapse like wtc7?. what were those explosions when the man was on the phone?. why did bush say he seen the first plane crash?. why wasnt there much debris at the pentagon and images released of the plane till 5 years later?. and about another 50 un-qnswered questions that day. and you dont think theres something odd about it????. you must know it all.




Funny that you would agree that negative evidence is not evidence... and then go on to try and prove your point by spouting off questions. Questions are not answers.

The scientific method is question/observation, hypothesis, study, and conclusion. Conspiracy theorists lack the facts, resources, and/or the mental competence to conduct a study... so they delude themselves into thinking that if they shunt in enough related questions they will somehow prove their hypothesis about the original question. In fact, a rational mind knows that adding more questions into the mix only makes hypothesis even more difficult and decreases the chances of accurate prediction of the conclusion.

Then again, I'm giving them too much credit. They far prefer to work backwards... they come up with a conclusion that they happen to like, and then distort, ignore, melt, twist, and otherwise abuse the entire fabric of reality in an attempt to make the facts fit the explanation... because reality was boring anyways... and frankly it never made much sense to them. So one might as well go apeshit on it and use it as fuel for a delusion that they find more comfortable and amusing.

Quote:

peter19 said:what evidence do you want?, goerge bush to say he did it?.




What more evidence do I need? Well, some evidence at all would be nice. I do generally avoid subscribing to a hypothesis when the author somehow thinks zero is a sufficient amount of evidence, as long as they go out of their way to stir up doubt and confuse people into believing them by saying that nitpicking at little details of the logical explanation somehow brings it crashing down in such a way as to magically summon up the missing evidence that says they're not just an ignorant fuckwit.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

Edited by Konnrade (10/20/07 04:58 PM)

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: Konnrade]
    #7539787 - 10/20/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Its amusing listening to the ebb & flow of these 9-11 arguments and getting an idea of the comparative intelligence of both sides...

The conspiracy theorists can't spell, can't form a complete sentence, can't use punctuation in any kind of logical manner, and just keep throwing out the same shitty videos and saying "D0nt you cee th3 m1ss11ez?/?"

Then you have an intelligent well-thought out post like the one above.

I think it speaks volumes...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7539816 - 10/20/07 04:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Its amusing listening to the ebb & flow of these 9-11 arguments and getting an idea of the comparative intelligence of both sides...

The conspiracy theorists can't spell, can't form a complete sentence, can't use punctuation in any kind of logical manner, and just keep throwing out the same shitty videos and saying "D0nt you cee th3 m1ss11ez?/?"

Then you have an intelligent well-thought out post like the one above.

I think it speaks volumes...




And to think, years ago I was afraid of these conspiracy people joining Al Qaeda. Now it seems that if they did join Al Qaeda, their incompetance would help bring down the evil terrorists.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7540099 - 10/20/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Its amusing listening to the ebb & flow of these 9-11 arguments and getting an idea of the comparative intelligence of both sides...

The conspiracy theorists can't spell, can't form a complete sentence, can't use punctuation in any kind of logical manner, and just keep throwing out the same shitty videos and saying "D0nt you cee th3 m1ss11ez?/?"

Then you have an intelligent well-thought out post like the one above.

I think it speaks volumes...




Ya know, I kinda noticed that too but I was afraid of being labeled an intelligentististist. Or something. But now I can come out. Do you think we can have our own hate symbol, like maybe a rolled up sheepskin that we can smack the morons on the nose with? I just got back from a party at the Yale Club and I bet I can recruit a bunch of moron haters there.


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7540174 - 10/20/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)


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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7541221 - 10/21/07 12:03 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Its amusing listening to the ebb & flow of these 9-11 arguments and getting an idea of the comparative intelligence of both sides...

The conspiracy theorists can't spell, can't form a complete sentence, can't use punctuation in any kind of logical manner, and just keep throwing out the same shitty videos and saying "D0nt you cee th3 m1ss11ez?/?"

Then you have an intelligent well-thought out post like the one above.

I think it speaks volumes...





If you believe everything you just stated then please remove your Hunter S. Thompson sig because he wouldn't agree with anything you just said. Also can someone please try to refute that bush video where he freaken lies about seeing the plane hit the first tower? Is this just another conspiracy I would def think not. That was a lie perpetrated by an evil man plain and simple you can't really examine it any other way. Bush doesn't even know what the original story was 3 month's after the attack. And why do you think would be? It's because people that lie as much as him can't keep their lies separated from the actual truth so instead they end up stating their lie's as the truth and it gets them into shit tons of trouble. Expect a major response to this video soon. I'll be damned if I don't get this video played on NBC soon. Here's another version of it with a different reporter I suggest you all listen carefully to what he has to say on it . It goes into quite some detail on the legal matters of this case.

And remember to keep in mind the reason why bush couldn't of seen the first plane hit because no one did it wasn't released till the next day!!!!!!

Best video's out there right now to help the 9/11 truth movement.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALtNYBX7OmM

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZOuNEoAWeY.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (10/21/07 12:35 AM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7541307 - 10/21/07 12:43 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, gee... god forbid a president who is world famous for being slow witted and poorly prepared for public speeches get his facts wrong during a speech :lol:

That's like saying Hitman420 must be up to no good because he made a stupid post


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I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7541564 - 10/21/07 03:46 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I like Cartman's version better.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: Seuss]
    #7542136 - 10/21/07 10:25 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread309104/pg1

I've seen this sort of argument too many times to care now. But I like this guy's approach.


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Offlinepeter19
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: Konnrade]
    #7542496 - 10/21/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Funny that you would agree that negative evidence is not evidence... and then go on to try and prove your point by spouting off questions. Questions are not answers.




yes negative evidence is not truely evidence if you have a stance, but if you dont have a particular stance negative evidence can be used because you are not claiming something, you are showing that the other claiming point of view is wrong and doesnt add up. ill give you an example, useing the cat in the box. lets say the cat is a purple cat and you can clearly see that its out of the box, someone then says to you - "the purple cat is in the box" you can then use "negative" evidence to show that the purple cat is not in the box. you dont know whats in the box, but you know a purple cat is atleast out of the box. (theres only one purple cat btw lol)


Quote:


The scientific method is question/observation, hypothesis, study, and conclusion. Conspiracy theorists lack the facts, resources, and/or the mental competence to conduct a study...




its goint to be unlikely though isnt it, that a "conspiracy theorist" will be able, or want, to do a conclusion. the whole, and generally accepted turm assosiated with a person who is described as a "conspiracy theorist" is somebody who is questioning the official story and pointing out holes in it. so what im saying is im not here to say a rocket hit the pentagon or the jews were behind 9-11 ect. what im pointing out is that the official "conspiracy theory" doesnt add up. so in that sense you can use negative evidense.

Quote:

so they delude themselves into thinking that if they shunt in enough related questions they will somehow prove their hypothesis about the original question. In fact, a rational mind knows that adding more questions into the mix only makes hypothesis even more difficult and decreases the chances of accurate prediction of the conclusion.




not if you are pointing holes at anothers stance or "conspiracy theory". if you are doing that, then asking questions is showing that the things they are saying dont add up. you are right though, but only in the sense of someone trying to prove that what they say is the way it is, or diffrent from the official view.

Quote:


Then again, I'm giving them too much credit. They far prefer to work backwards...




ill just pick you up on your word "them". people have diffrent beliefs and diffrent views, generalizeing them is abit like generalizeing black people for instance. how do you know every "conspiracy theorist" believs the same thing?. its like all walks of life, you will have less intelligent people in and some very intelligent people in, so "they" are not all the same.


Quote:


they come up with a conclusion that they happen to like, and then distort, ignore, melt, twist, and otherwise abuse the entire fabric of reality in an attempt to make the facts fit the explanation... because reality was boring anyways... and frankly it never made much sense to them. So one might as well go apeshit on it and use it as fuel for a delusion that they find more comfortable and amusing.




some people will, some people wont.

Quote:

peter19 said:what evidence do you want?, goerge bush to say he did it?.





Quote:

What more evidence do I need? Well, some evidence at all would be nice. I do generally avoid subscribing to a hypothesis when the author somehow thinks zero is a sufficient amount of evidence, as long as they go out of their way to stir up doubt and confuse people into believing them by saying that nitpicking at little details of the logical explanation somehow brings it crashing down in such a way as to magically summon up the missing evidence that says they're not just an ignorant fuckwit.




the evidence what im offering is what iv posted and things. the vids ectera. with what iv just posted im not here to say how it was done and to name 19 hijackers for you, my whole point it to show that whats been said in the official "conspiracy theory", half of it is BS. proveing that its BS you can use negative evidence.

i was gonna leave this thread and just let it be but you were debateing my other points so ill expand on them abit.

peace.


--------------------
“All Truth Goes Through Three Stages. First, it is ridiculed. Then, it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident.”
- Arthur Schopenhauer

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7542498 - 10/21/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:

If you believe everything you just stated then please remove your Hunter S. Thompson sig because he wouldn't agree with anything you just said.





The sig doesn't say anything about 9/11. Show me one HST quote where he says anything about 9-11 conspiracies? Because I have all of his books, and unlike you, I've read them.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: 9/11 was a inside job, video with convincing arguments. [Re: peter19]
    #7542527 - 10/21/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Negative evidence can only be used when the outcomes are a dichotomous eiter/or type (your cat example, for instance). It doesn't work in the conspiracy business because pointing out a hole in the widely accepted evidence doesn't mean that the opposite is true because there are many explanations, not just two.

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