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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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More troops?
    #6339392 - 12/06/06 04:27 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)



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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: More troops? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #6340238 - 12/06/06 01:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

duh..but any new strategy is a good step because we can't afford to leave and the current "strategy" for victory is a joke.

just as people are waking up to the reality that we should have never gone in in the first place, and we get some leadership change as well, it's simply too late to back out because the whole region will collapse and become 10 times the threat that is was before we went it. the only way to salvage anything out of the complete and total shit storm we've created is by doing the right thing and seeing it through. that's sad because it will cost our men and women many lives cleaning up the spilt milk that should have never been taken out of the fridge in the first place. they'll die to protect future US economic and regional interests and so the US can try to save a little face. sad indeed.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: More troops? [Re: JonnyOnTheSpot]
    #6340256 - 12/06/06 01:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If the right thing is to see it through, to avoid the collapse of the region and all of the suffering that will be caused upon those who inhabit the region, then it would logically follow that the right thing was to interefere in the region in the first place, considering the ramifications of having a man such as Saddam Hussein in power, eh? :shocked:


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: More troops? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6340293 - 12/06/06 01:34 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Wow.

If thats logic, I'm not sure what I've been using.

Your troops staying there are not going to prevent the collapse of that country. Yes, leaving will accelerate the process. But at the moment, your troops are not dong anything except playing target practice for jihadists.

Iraq is not a country with deep roots amongst its people. Its a 20th century invention and a hodgepodge of several different and distinct ethnic groups. Trying to hold it together and turn it into what YOU think it should be is not helping matters in any way, shape, or form.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: More troops? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6340339 - 12/06/06 01:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I was following through with his line of reasoning, not proposing that said line of reasoning was representative of the reality of the situation. :wink:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: More troops? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6340351 - 12/06/06 01:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Definitely, these are tribes, and the whole federal government/country concept isn't going to work with them, because it is a concept that cannot be forced. Look at the manner in which the United States formed and see the difference. These people shouldn't even have a country, they should have tribes. The entire world does not have to conform to some idea of how the world should be organized.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleJonnyOnTheSpot
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Re: More troops? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6340377 - 12/06/06 01:53 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

no, because when saddam was in power it kept the region stable at least. i'm not saying that it's the right thing to do because the iraqi people will suffer, i'm saying it's the right thing to do strategically for the united states. we can't risk it devolving into iran the sequel or having some dictator step in that is actually worse than saddam. if it turns into a war torn theocracy then it will only create more enemies for the unites states in the future. more terrorists, and more instability in a strategically important region will result. on top of that, we need to strong bond with the iraqi government in order to benefit from their oil in the future.

and let's not forget about our reputation throughout the world. if you thought people hated us now just wait until we pull out now and leave iraq in the midst of a civil war. the US will lose face and respect with both allies and enemies. As a matter of fact, just a couple days ago i saw bush talking about how if we picked up and left then we'd be disgraced as a country, which is what i'm talking about.

As for the iraqi's themselves, they are dying now in droves because of our war, but if we leave many many more will die because of the ensuing sectarian violence/civil war that will go unchecked. they'll be much worse off imo.

so i stand by my assertion that going to war was the 100% wrong thing to do. so far we haven't done much to help ourselves or anyone else. the reasons for war were lies and falsehoods that duped the good natured people of the US into supporting such a ridiculous cause. if the only basis for the war was that saddam was a evil dictator than the majority of the US would not have supported the war. It was the lies about WMD's and links to al queda that drummed up the support.

Now that we're there though it is in our countries interest to clean up the mess that we've made, or suffer the consequences in the future.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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