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OfflineSource
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The BIG Desire
    #6324351 - 12/01/06 03:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Lets talk some practical hands-on real-life spirituality here. I apologize in advance for the self indulgence...




I don't know why I have done this to myself, but somehow it seems as though the multitude of various desires that I formerly had are now concentrated into one 'thing'.

What that thing is doesn't matter. What does matter is that it is simply not possible for me to have this thing without giving up everything else in my life and causing suffering to others.

For this reason I have not pursued it.

On a personal level, I feel that having this thing would be my salvation. Without it my life is bleak, despairing and hellish. With it, the possibility of eternal sunshine and happiness.

If suffering is proportional to desire then I am truly plumbing the depths of suffering. Yet the idea of giving up my desire fills me with black dread. The dream of obtaining my desire is both my only light of hope and the most painful thing in my life. For the sake of the light, I endure the pain.

I know I could drop the desire. But if I do I will never experience what my heart has always longed for. Without it I think I can see how the rest of my life will play out - Cold, isolated, barren and lonely.

Even the experience of total peace...without desire, without suffering without self, nirvana...seems boring compared to having what I truly want.

I have practiced self denial my entire adult life. I have sacrificed my life for others. I harm no one. Time and time again I deny my own desires to give others what they want and the end result is that I am not happy. If I were to die right now I would land in hell.

I don't like hell. I have to choose.

I am in the middle. I do not pursue my desire for the sake of others, yet I do not let go of my desire for the possibility of its fulfillment.

So which is better, obtaining the hearts desire or letting go and possibly finding the peace that always seems to elude us?

I know this is spirituality 101 stuff. 'LET GO!' is the obvious answer, but sometimes desire is simply too strong.

What I desire is real. Enlightenment is only a possibility.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324559 - 12/01/06 04:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Go for your desires 100%, then you will know if they truly are what you want.

In my mind I'm imagining a divorce in here somewhere. :wink: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324560 - 12/01/06 04:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

First thing, I wouldn't confuse egotistical desire with the hunger of the soul. To me it sounds like the latter is true for you, this "thing" involves you for the first time taking the first conscious steps deep into yourself towards inner peace & joy.

Quote:

So which is better, obtaining the hearts desire or letting go and possibly finding the peace that always seems to elude us?




Following the heart, and finding peace ain't separate paths at all. It seems it ain't about letting go, but quite the opposite, about embracing, accepting who you are. Aligning yourself with the depths of your heart, and in there you will discover peace & warmth, and the spiritual light that will guide you forth.

This path of the heart will ultimately dissolve the suffering. The love will radiate from within you, and resonate with everyone who you are afraid of hurting. They will deeply understand what needs to be done, and support you when ever they can. Just the initial shift and realignment with the heart can be painful, because much attachment needs to be let go, maybe even the ones who love you......

:heart:


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324574 - 12/01/06 04:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I'm more comfortable addressing questions on a specific basis, so I am going to take a wild guess & say:

1.  The BIG thing you want is relationship with a particular human.
2.  Either you or the particular human you desire is already in a relationship with another. (Or perhaps both of you.)

It sounds like you are either unwilling or unable (is there really a difference?) to let go of or pursue what you desire, so that leaves you with a third alternative:

Work on accepting the way it is (for now) and do your best to enjoy your life in the meantime.

In my experience with a similar situation, the most effective method of enjoying "the meantime" is to share all the love you want to give that particular person with everyone.  Love your co-workers, love your family, love the UPS driver, love the old guy down the street who frowns at you when you walk by.

Instead of waiting for love to find you, save you, make you happy, BE loving.  Open your heart and give it away as though you have an unlimited supply--because you do!

This felt so much better to me than what I had been doing (feeling lonely, longing to be loved, wishing the right person would arrive), that I actually began to ENJOY being single.  My company was much more desirable when I wasn't dwelling on the lack of a lover, but rather on becoming a conduit for Love.

The people I was showering with love were delighted and surprised to be loved, and they soaked it up.  It felt excellent to offer love without asking anything in return.  Every day I confirmed my ability as a Lover, and experienced for myself that my supply was limitless.

I empathize with your suffering, as I have been there & it is truly painful.  If my guess is accurate, and what you desire is love, then give loving a try.  :heart:


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OfflineSource
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Icelander]
    #6324616 - 12/01/06 04:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Go for your desires 100%, then you will know if they truly are what you want.

In my mind I'm imagining a divorce in here somewhere. :wink: :mushroom2:




Even if doing so would devestate everyone I know?


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324630 - 12/01/06 04:53 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Would it really devastate everyone you know? Or would they possibly be hurt, disappointed, or sad for a time, and then move on with their lives?


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OfflineSource
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Amethyst]
    #6324673 - 12/01/06 05:02 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Amethyst said:
Following the heart, and finding peace ain't separate paths at all. It seems it ain't about letting go, but quite the opposite, about embracing, accepting who you are. Aligning yourself with the depths of your heart, and in there you will discover peace & warmth, and the spiritual light that will guide you forth.

This path of the heart will ultimately dissolve the suffering. The love will radiate from within you, and resonate with everyone who you are afraid of hurting. They will deeply understand what needs to be done, and support you when ever they can. Just the initial shift and realignment with the heart can be painful, because much attachment needs to be let go, maybe even the ones who love you......

:heart:




Thank you very much for that!

In this particular case I do not think that following my heart and finding peace are the same.  In other words, if I choose to obtain my desire all hell will break loose.  I will cause harm to others.  There is no way around it.  Causing others pain will strip away any peace that may come from fulfilling my desire.

I have accepted who I am.  In a way, this acceptance has fueled my desire.

It is a very difficult situation for me.  I don't know why it is that I want more than anything is that which I cannot have.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324675 - 12/01/06 05:04 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Source said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Go for your desires 100%, then you will know if they truly are what you want.

In my mind I'm imagining a divorce in here somewhere. :wink: :mushroom2:




Even if doing so would devastate everyone I know?




Obviously you don't know my philosophy so I take it you don't read my posts. :frown:  Each of us is 100% responsible for our emotional wellbeing. You cannot make another suffer emotionally if they do not choose it. Rational Emotive Behavior 101 :wink:

Or if you want to look at this another way how come they are willing to deprive you of your needs and desires and devastate you by insisting that your actions are the only means to their wellbeing. Kind of selfish of them don't you think. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Icelander]
    #6324678 - 12/01/06 05:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Obviously you don't know my philosophy so I take it you don't read my posts. Each of us is 100% responsible for our emotional wellbeing. You cannot make another suffer emotionally if they do not choose it. Rational Emotive Behavior 101

Or if you want to look at this another way how come they are willing to deprive you of your needs and desires and devastate you by insisting that your actions are the only means to their wellbeing. Kind of selfish of them don't you think.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Icelander]
    #6324681 - 12/01/06 05:06 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hey!!! My first double post ever. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSource
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Veritas]
    #6324699 - 12/01/06 05:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:

Work on accepting the way it is (for now) and do your best to enjoy your life in the meantime.

In my experience with a similar situation, the most effective method of enjoying "the meantime" is to share all the love you want to give that particular person with everyone. Love your co-workers, love your family, love the UPS driver, love the old guy down the street who frowns at you when you walk by.




Accept my state of desire. I like that! That is a third option I hadn't considered. Thank you!

In a way accepting is letting go.

In the meantime...

There was a time a couple years back when I could feel love pour through my heart into the world. Lately my heart has been closed. I've been very VERY hurt many times by those I am supposed to love. I am only human.

I am nothing if not kind. I am probably the kindest person I know. I am always considerate of others. But this isn't necessarily love.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Veritas]
    #6324708 - 12/01/06 05:14 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Would it really devastate everyone you know? Or would they possibly be hurt, disappointed, or sad for a time, and then move on with their lives?




It would devestate them. I'm sure eventually they could move on, but things would never be the same for them.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Icelander]
    #6324748 - 12/01/06 05:27 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Obviously you don't know my philosophy so I take it you don't read my posts. Each of us is 100% responsible for our emotional wellbeing. You cannot make another suffer emotionally if they do not choose it. Rational Emotive Behavior 101

Or if you want to look at this another way how come they are willing to deprive you of your needs and desires and devastate you by insisting that your actions are the only means to their wellbeing. Kind of selfish of them don't you think.




Of course you are absolutely right. Everyone is responsible for how they feel about what happens in the objective world.

But hardly anyone is able to accept that responsibility. Knowing that others will choose to feel pain because of my choice, am I not responsible for performing actions I know will result in thier suffering?

If a deer is standing next to a cliff and I purposely startle it causing it to fall off the cliff, am I not responsible? Even though it was the dear's reaction that caused its death, I knew what would happen...it's natural reaction would be to run in the oposite direction over the edge.

In the same way, people have natural emotive reactions.

I see what you are saying and again you are correct, but I can't help but feel reponsible to for how others feel. How crazy-stupid is that!


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineAmethyst
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324754 - 12/01/06 05:29 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Source said:

In this particular case I do not think that following my heart and finding peace are the same. In other words, if I choose to obtain my desire all hell will break loose. I will cause harm to others. There is no way around it. Causing others pain will strip away any peace that may come from fulfilling my desire.

I have accepted who I am. In a way, this acceptance has fueled my desire.

It is a very difficult situation for me. I don't know why it is that I want more than anything is that which I cannot have.






If you believe this desire will ultimately bring you joy & peace, which in turn brings the world joy too, then why do you fear it will bring prolonged suffering for others?

I often think "What is right for me, is right for everyone"

It seems you are deeply entangled with the lives of others, maybe you feel you owe alot to them, and the guilt of leaving them behind over comes your need to follow what you feel is right. If they love you, they will understand, in one way or another.

Following your heart will be painful at first, but peace will follow, time is a factor here, it will not happen over night! BUT if you continue on with your unhappiness, then you may never be peaceful, nor will the others who love you.

"To free others, first you must free yourself"


--------------------
"That's the story moving from the NO to the YES. All of life is like, no thankyou, no thankyou, no thankyou. Then ultimatey it's YES i give in, YES I accept, YES I embrace."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324775 - 12/01/06 05:36 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

am I not responsible for performing actions I know will result in their suffering?

It is your "duty" to preform actions that are in alignment with your truest values, (you seem to know what they are). You are inhibiting the growth (spiritual if you will) of others by shielding them from the truth and living out a lie.

I really suspect you are doing this all for yourself really. You want to protect your precious self image as the good guy. In the famous movie words;" you can't handle the truth".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSource
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Amethyst]
    #6324797 - 12/01/06 05:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Amethyst said:


If you believe this desire will ultimately bring you joy & peace, which in turn brings the world joy too, then why do you fear it will bring prolonged suffering for others?

I often think "What is right for me, is right for everyone"

It seems you are deeply entangled with the lives of others, maybe you feel you owe alot to them, and the guilt of leaving them behind over comes your need to follow what you feel is right. If they love you, they will understand, in one way or another.

Following your heart will be painful at first, but peace will follow, time is a factor here, it will not happen over night! BUT if you continue on with your unhappiness, then you may never be peaceful, nor will the others who love you.

"To free others, first you must free yourself"




Yes, but sometimes what makes someone happy will makes others unhappy.

Or maybe you are right and what makes me happy will make others happy. If I know others will be unhappy perhaps that is a clue that I would not be happy myself should I obtain my desire.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Icelander]
    #6324807 - 12/01/06 05:49 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
am I not responsible for performing actions I know will result in their suffering?

It is your "duty" to preform actions that are in alignment with your truest values, (you seem to know what they are). You are inhibiting the growth (spiritual if you will) of others by shielding them from the truth and living out a lie.

I really suspect you are doing this all for yourself really. You want to protect your precious self image as the good guy. In the famous movie words;" you can't handle the truth".




I have oftern thought about this myself. Others know I am not happy and I do not pursue what would make me happy. Maybe I am not being the best example I could be.

Self sacrifice sucks.

But I have children to consider.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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OfflineSource
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324812 - 12/01/06 05:50 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you all for your replies  :heart: 

I have much and more to ponder.

I had better get back to work now.


--------------------
What you're searching for is what's searching.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324901 - 12/01/06 06:19 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

But I have children to consider.

Indeed you do. You will set the example for them. They will see everything, most likely sooner rather than later. If you lead an inauthentic life they may just end up copying you.

That's why I never had children. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: The BIG Desire [Re: Source]
    #6324917 - 12/01/06 06:21 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I have practiced self denial my entire adult life.

Practicing self-denial can be beneficial if it is used to accomplish a goal. "Even though I want to, I'm not going to allow myself to smoke cigarettes because it would harm my health." If your denying yourself things simply for the sake of denying yourself things, I don't think this behavior will create any positive results for you.

It seems to me like your denying yourself for the good of others. This may be instrumental (goal-oriented) or it may not be. So, why do you sacrifice your life for others? Is it because without your sacrifices, they would be seriously harmed in some way? Do you give others what they want because you feel if you don't, they may be offended? Do you feel it is your 'duty' to sacrifice your desires for others?


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